RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: JDM on November 09, 2015, 12:34:56 PM
-
Well, it's playoff season and already there's animosity on behalf of a chapter. I have been advised that there is a chapter that refuses to provide a chain crew for a playoff game in their area simply because the two coaches from that area chose another chapter. The two chapters are about a 3 1/2 hour drive from each other. I'm surprised that there is not some TASO State requirement that prevents this because it places a real burden on the chapter that has to try to convince 3 guys to take off work and travel for a chain assignment. Just my 2¢.
-
Simple, have your chapter supply a chain crew and let them get the mileage and fee! No different than the local chapter having to convince guys to take off and work the chains..............
-
I can see their point. The crews do their games, take their abuse all season for the crew selected by the chapter or the coaches themselves(which is even worse) and then don't use the chapter that supports them for the playoffs? Why don't they use a different chapter during the season and pay for the expenses if they are going to abuse the support they get.
-
Simple, have your chapter supply a chain crew and let them get the mileage and fee! No different than the local chapter having to convince guys to take off and work the chains..............
That would be a benevolent act for the crew to give up their mileage to the chain crew. It is different than having a local chapter provide a crew because they would most likely not have to take off work since they are local. Our chapter would never stoop to not supplying a chain crew because the coaches chose another for their game.
-
How are they giving up mileage. Charge for two or more vehicles.
Do you know for sure that they are being vindictive in not assigning a chain crew? Is it a small chapter with limited numbers or are you just assuming a lot of things?
-
How are they giving up mileage. Charge for two or more vehicles.
Do you know for sure that they are being vindictive in not assigning a chain crew? Is it a small chapter with limited numbers or are you just assuming a lot of things?
This is a major metropolis based chapter that finished in the top 5 in Doc's Playoff Tny. Spreadsheet last year (hint - it's not the chapter that finished #1). I don't know whether they are being vindictive nor have I made "a lot of assumptions". The fact of the matter is there is a playoff game in their back yard and they will not provide a chain crew for a chapter the coaches in their area opted for instead of them. Without a doubt, this doesn't happen often in the first round but I personally am privy to playoff games played in the past in our back yard where coaches in our area chose other chapters and guess what? We happily manned a chain crew with no qualms.
-
I was a member of a top 5 major metropolis chapter, and there was 1 or 2 schools who did this "go outside the area" thing every year. It led to some bad blood between the board and the coaches come playoff time, and there was at least discussion of vindictively not sending a chain crew. Usually, the reason to deny the chain crew would be that the chapter had enough other games to cover we really didn't have anyone left to work chains for schools that didn't want us there anyway.
-
If it's bad blood for going outside the chapter, the question then becomes, would that chapter have a problem taking a game in another chapters "backyard"? Maybe all chapters should turn back games in another chapters area if said Chapter provides services to both teams. I don't see that happening because we are all playoff whores.
-
This sort of thing (game snub) happens to EVERY chapter EVERY year. Maybe they couldn't agree on a crew; maybe they both have a history with the chapter they selected and a specific crew there; maybe they were just not happy with the product they got from their "home" chapter this year.
My crew got "excellent" (in our own coach's survey) from the winning team and "good" from the losing team one week, and then the very next week, 3 members of our crew got "unacceptable" and the other 2 "average" from the losing coach. He called us out on 3 plays that, according to film, (I think) shows that we got the calls RIGHT. We all know these guys get a bug up their BUTT about something involving their won/loss record and not necessarily the ACTUAL quality of the officiating. I don't think we should create a problem for another chapter, but that's just my opinion.
If the chapter is going to take their displeasure out on the schools, do it next year by letting them know you will no longer work their schedule.
-
I know exactly the school you're talking about. If this were the first time this happened then maybe it could slide. It isn't the first time and there is a lot more to the story. I personally won't work for the school and I know other crews that won't either.
-
I think it is a good thing not to send a chain crew and I wish more chapters would follow suit. Heaven forbid any chapter actually stand up to a school. This will not become the norm because all chapters are playoff whores.
-
I fully support this practice of not providing the auxiliary staff in this situation. No excuse for 2 schools in a major metropolitan area not to use the home chapter that supports their games 3-4 nights a week for 11 weeks (plus scrimmages). There has to be a crew they can agree on. These schools have consistently gone outside the area for the playoffs for years. Let them pay for travel for an out of town auxiliary crew, too. Like Doc said, this is not the first time. hEaDbAnG
-
This can and should go beyond the issue of providing a chain crew. In our chapter if we have two schools that we service that elect to go outside the chapter for their playoff game it's a simple solution. We will no longer have any officials willing to go to that school for any level of game the following season. It's a simple communication to the coach telling them our chapter will not be able to provide officials for the upcoming season. When the coach or AD asks why the answer has been because last year we had a lot of offiicials bust their tail all season long only to be disappointed with you played "X" team who we also service. I've seen this occur three separate times and it's amazing how quick an apology occurs and we take the season off from that school.
-
I would imagine that works in the Panhandle where schools have to call in officials from 200 miles away if you drop them, but doesnt work where I am. We have 3 other chapters nearby that are happy to take their games and they're not paying much more for mileage. Then, since most schools use the same chapter district wide, if we get too many schools doing that we lose a whole district.
-
I would imagine that works in the Panhandle where schools have to call in officials from 200 miles away if you drop them, but doesnt work where I am. We have 3 other chapters nearby that are happy to take their games and they're not paying much more for mileage. Then, since most schools use the same chapter district wide, if we get too many schools doing that we lose a whole district.
Makes sense Clearwall
-
I would imagine that works in the Panhandle where schools have to call in officials from 200 miles away if you drop them, but doesnt work where I am. We have 3 other chapters nearby that are happy to take their games and they're not paying much more for mileage. Then, since most schools use the same chapter district wide, if we get too many schools doing that we lose a whole district.
i have never seen such cut throat in an organization. you would think chapters would communicate with one another and get on the same page in all sports.
pretty simple if you don't want to use the local chapters for one sport then you don't use them for any sport.
-
i have never seen such cut throat in an organization. you would think chapters would communicate with one another and get on the same page in all sports.
pretty simple if you don't want to use the local chapters for one sport then you don't use them for any sport.
Each sport is its each individual group and there is not necessarily overlap between the "local" football chapter vs the "local" baseball chapter or the "local" basketball chapter. And, of course, the coaches and their preferences are different from sport to sport. So, really one has nothing to do with the other.
-
Not to mention the fact that basketball and softball are largely not in TASO anymore.
-
Each sport is its each individual group and there is not necessarily overlap between the "local" football chapter vs the "local" baseball chapter or the "local" basketball chapter. And, of course, the coaches and their preferences are different from sport to sport. So, really one has nothing to do with the other.
you would be surprised how many officials do more than one sport. so yes there is an overlap.
only way local TASO has a voice is to get on the same page.
-
you would be surprised how many officials do more than one sport. so yes there is an overlap.
It's not about the officials but the coverage area of the Chapters themselves. In Houston there are 4 or 5 basketball chapters covering roughly the same area that the football chapter covers.
Even in the smaller chapters, the coverage area can vary by sport so that they don't always match up.
-
It's not about the officials but the coverage area of the Chapters themselves. In Houston there are 4 or 5 basketball chapters covering roughly the same area that the football chapter covers.
Even in the smaller chapters, the coverage area can vary by sport so that they don't always match up.
well if the houston football chapter would stop trying to bully and over take smaller chapters that would not be a issue.
-
well if the houston football chapter would stop trying to bully and over take smaller chapters that would not be a issue.
It only took until Sat of week 2 in the playoffs for someone to complain. Not the earliest or the latest I have seen.
For what it is worth Houston does seem like they are getting more then usual.
-
It only took until Sat of week 2 in the playoffs for someone to complain. Not the earliest or the latest I have seen.
For what it is worth Houston does seem like they are getting more then usual.
my statement had nothing to do with playoffs....
-
It only took until Sat of week 2 in the playoffs for someone to complain. Not the earliest or the latest I have seen.
For what it is worth Houston does seem like they are getting more then usual.
it's not the fact that Houston gets the call, it's the fact that coaches want to use the same crews over and over again because they think they get an advantage with them while their opposing coach has his favorites because of the same thing and they differ. We have one school that does this ever since the coach arrived and the abuse those crews receive during the season is horrendous. And they take the abuse because they would rather do that game knowing they will never get picked for playoffs because their purpose was served. It's like watching a middle school game as far as sideline communication is concerned.
-
well if the houston football chapter would stop trying to bully and over take smaller chapters that would not be a issue.
Wish in one hand...
Regardless of how the Houston football chapter has come to be, it doesn't invalidate my point. Houston can't be the only metro area chapter that has a different overlap with other sports.
-
I bring this thread back up to ask a question that was (sort of) posed on here but never completely answered: has anyone charged a full mileage fee (50-whatever cents) for TWO vehicles? I ask because my crew has been assigned a game a ways off and we will almost certainly have to take 2 vehicles (no chain crew). The difference in 1 and 2 cars will be $35-40 a car.
We would ride together if physically possible, but no one has a Suburban/Van/similar.
-
For long distance games, we have had (2) officials turn in mileage @ the .405 rate. One rents the van and the other gives his mileage to the one the rented the van.
-
I bring this thread back up to ask a question that was (sort of) posed on here but never completely answered: has anyone charged a full mileage fee (50-whatever cents) for TWO vehicles? I ask because my crew has been assigned a game a ways off and we will almost certainly have to take 2 vehicles (no chain crew). The difference in 1 and 2 cars will be $35-40 a car.
We would ride together if physically possible, but no one has a Suburban/Van/similar.
We've taken three vehicles several times for playoff games out of the area and non-metro games in the Houston area and were paid 3 mileages and rider fees for the other officials.
-
I bring this thread back up to ask a question that was (sort of) posed on here but never completely answered: has anyone charged a full mileage fee (50-whatever cents) for TWO vehicles? I ask because my crew has been assigned a game a ways off and we will almost certainly have to take 2 vehicles (no chain crew). The difference in 1 and 2 cars will be $35-40 a car.
We would ride together if physically possible, but no one has a Suburban/Van/similar.
Nothing at all prevents you from taking up to three cars to a regular varsity game. The rate per car goes down the more cars are taken, but the UIL has laid the pay matrix out for a reason, crews can very likely come from different areas. My chapter says we should never take three, but that's their advice, not a dictate. If it is necessary, it is necessary and the schools are obligated to pay the stated rate.
-
Nothing prevents us from taking 25 cars to the game, but my point is that we're servicing a school we don't normally service. We're doing it with officials who don't ordinarily work together and in cars that don't really allow more than 4 people. Schools that we normally work are fair game - we know the schools/districts ahead of time. I personally think all cars should get a full mileage rate as riding together isn't always possible. However, I see the logic in encouraging riding together when possible. That logic, to me, doesn't extend to schools outside of our area who are coming to us asking us to call their games.
I just wish TASO would stop being a mini-UIL and start being an organization that represents the best interests of its members. If that means telling UIL, no, or telling them what conditions we will work under, so be it. Big chapters are losing members in droves and in 5 years, we won't be able to cover a substantial part of our subvarsity and even varsity will suffer. We can't wait until that happens to start thinking about fee and expense reimbursement issues.
-
I just wish TASO would stop being a mini-UIL
Might as well wish to hit the Powerball while you're at it.
-
Nothing prevents us from taking 25 cars to the game, but my point is that we're servicing a school we don't normally service. We're doing it with officials who don't ordinarily work together and in cars that don't really allow more than 4 people. Schools that we normally work are fair game - we know the schools/districts ahead of time. I personally think all cars should get a full mileage rate as riding together isn't always possible. However, I see the logic in encouraging riding together when possible. That logic, to me, doesn't extend to schools outside of our area who are coming to us asking us to call their games.
I just wish TASO would stop being a mini-UIL and start being an organization that represents the best interests of its members. If that means telling UIL, no, or telling them what conditions we will work under, so be it. Big chapters are losing members in droves and in 5 years, we won't be able to cover a substantial part of our subvarsity and even varsity will suffer. We can't wait until that happens to start thinking about fee and expense reimbursement issues.
You can always say no if you don't like the terms. I doubt anyone is holding a gun on you to accept the assignment.
-
You can always say no if you don't like the terms. I doubt anyone is holding a gun on you to accept the assignment.
You don't know me very well as an assigner. ;D
-
You don't know me very well as an assigner. ;D
just like a school not wanting a certain official, I have officials who scratch certain schools. There are enough to problems to deal with without manufacturing more. Keeps my phone from ringing too.
-
I doubt anyone is holding a gun on you to accept the assignment.
Of course not. But I don't like turning down assignments as you may not be asked again.
Besides, that's not really the point. One chapter refused the game (or the school refused the chapter) and the game needs to be worked.
-
Of course not. But I don't like turning down assignments as you may not be asked again.
Besides, that's not really the point. One chapter refused the game (or the school refused the chapter) and the game needs to be worked.
smh :!#