RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TXPanhandle on November 15, 2015, 07:58:42 PM
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Just curious if anyone knows if Burnett County ever decided to press charges or, since it's been silent for over a month now, it's dead from the DA?
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i personally feel the UIL/TASO dropped the ball on their end on this situation. i hope the DA does its part.
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i personally feel the UIL/TASO dropped the ball on their end on this situation. i hope the DA does its part.
What exactly did UIL / TASO do to drop the ball?
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What exactly did UIL / TASO do to drop the ball?
Agreed. The ball is in the court of the official. The official is the one who has to file charges, not UIL or TASO. There was a complaint made against the official, so TASO did its part by investigated the complaint, but the filing of criminal charges rest solely on the official and then the DA.
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First of all, it isn't a county jurisdiction here; it's the city of Marble Falls. Second, in spite of the fact that we saw this on video, there is still an investigation. The DA can't just prop the video in front of the court and say, "here it is; send them to jail." Someone must testify that the video is a true and accurate depiction of events, etc. As stated, there also must be a complaining party and/or witness.
Keep in mind that there are almost certainly persons and entities that hope that this all just goes away. I don't know if that's an influence here or not.
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First of all, it isn't a county jurisdiction here; it's the city of Marble Falls. Second, in spite of the fact that we saw this on video, there is still an investigation. The DA can't just prop the video in front of the court and say, "here it is; send them to jail." Someone must testify that the video is a true and accurate depiction of events, etc. As stated, there also must be a complaining party and/or witness.
Keep in mind that there are almost certainly persons and entities that hope that this all just goes away. I don't know if that's an influence here or not.
Joe -- I think this is a Burnett County issue. This would be a felony prosecution, if at all, and this is not a city matter. Yes, it happened in the City of Marble Falls -- but state criminal actions are generally brought by the elected County DA. And, I believe that we have read that Mr. Watts did press charges. So, it would be nice to know if it was presented to a grand jury? But, more to the point of this thread -- this is neither a TASO nor a UIL matter anymore.
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I was talking city vs. county as in the MF police rather than the County Sheriff's dept. I know the DA is a county official, but the initial investigation and likely the charges (or at least, the application of charges) will start at the city level, absent something weird. The Sheriff MIGHT get involved if the city refuses, but who knows whether they will.
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http://blog.mysanantonio.com/hssports/2015/12/former-jay-assistant-pleads-guilty-to-assault-in-ref-incident/
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Personally, I'm more concerned with what happens to the players than the coach. Why they have dragged their feet so long is baffling.
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"Investigation regarding others involved in the assault is ongoing, and charges against player Michael Moreno and an unnamed juvenile are expected to be filed shortly," Arredondo said Monday.
Coming . . . .
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http://usatodayhss.com/2015/former-john-jay-coach-pleads-guilty-in-assault-on-blindsided-official-charges-against-players-to-come
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I find it strange that someone can be charged and found guilty of assault when they never laid a hand on anyone.
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You "cause" a crime, or assist is any way and you can be charged with murder. Guy that drives the getaway car after a murdet can be convicted of murder
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You "cause" a crime, or assist is any way and you can be charged with murder. Guy that drives the getaway car after a murdet can be convicted of murder
Are you some kind of law enforcement expert or something??? :bOW
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I find it strange that someone can be charged and found guilty of assault when they never laid a hand on anyone.
Additionally, the term 'assault' in many states doesn't necessarily refer to the physical act but rather the threat or instigation. Credibly yelling "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU" could be assault, while beating someone up would be battery.
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I find it strange that someone can be charged and found guilty of assault when they never laid a hand on anyone.
So you're wanting to let this clown off the hook?
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So you're wanting to let this clown off the hook?
Not at all!
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Not at all!
I dont think anyone is saying that...rather, as occasionally happens on interweb forums, there was discussion about appropriate punishment.
My summary of the discussion:
- Doc wants some sort of laying of hands.
- Mike wants murder charges
- There were (correct) legal opinions on the charges of assault vs. battery (thx Scrounge)
- and finally some clown got trolled.
:sTiR:
tiphat:
I found it funny that the article said charges are pending for "Moreno and an unnamed juvenile"
Looking forward to see the charges against the thugs kids
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Guy that drives the getaway car after a murdet can be convicted of murder
Well, its really felony murder (a death that occurs during a felony you commit) and conspiracy to commit. For first and second degree murder, you PRETTY MUCH have to be the one that inflicted the damage that lead to the death.
Remember here that there isn't any conviction per se; this was a plea deal. The DA can charge whatever he has ANY facts to support the charge and, of course, the defendant can plea out or go to trial. The important thing here isn't the crime so much as hopefully the assurance that this individual will not coach and also not be involved in any youth sports again. I just turned in paperwork for a church-league basketball position (which I should be set with in spite of those fun-filled years I spent in San Quentin -- but don't tell anyone). I think listing a conviction for any assault relating to a sporting event is going to get someone bounced.
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Not at all!
Currently in the game of football, players with pads and helmets are suffering concussions and long lingering effects of "big hits." These players put multiple hits on a defenseless person without pads/helmet and you think it's strange to charge them assault? You right, you right send them to detention.
C'mon TexImObviouslyNotaDoc
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C'mon TexImObviouslyNotaDoc
"Doc" has nothing whatsoever to do with my profession. Look at the brackets I provide. You'll get it.
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As someone in the business, it is awesome to see folks discussing what we talk about in the courthouse all the time. It really is not complicated at all. Burnet County has a split jurisdiction with a County Attorney and a District Attorney. D.A. handle felonies for a number of counties in that judicial district. C.A. handles misdemeanors. I do think you could make a valid argument that the "spearing" caused the helmet to be used in a manner capable of causing serious bodily injury. This would then make this a felony aggravated assault. Not the easiest road but one that you could professionally support. They decided to go misdemeanor which is within their local discretion. The Penal Code Sec 7.02 is the basis for the charge as a "Party" which is if anyone ..."with the intent to promote or assist the commission of the offense a person solicits, encourages, directs, aids or attempts to aid the other person in committing the offense". We use this quite regularly in multiple defendant cases or when like I regularly do when I try gang cases. Just have to "direct or aid" and you are just as guilty. Like a recent gang head I tried for ordering a robbery that went bad when one of the crooks killed one of the other crooks while "sweeping" the house they had invaded. Used transferred intent and the law of parties and the head of the gang who never left their "clubhouse" is now serving life without parole. So they got the coach in effect for using his leadership position to "order" or encourage the act and thus making him criminally culpable. (Just a note as well, felony murder is when you commit, or attempt to commit, a felony and then commit an act dangerous to human life that causes the death of a another. My most recent one really drunk guy pulled a gun on his common-law Brother in Law and then had the gun go off during a struggle. Just changes what we have to prove from an intent struggle. This guy is serving a life sentence as well but can get out when he gets to his early 90s. )
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Sorry, sent before I finished. You guys got it dead on. Might need some hang him folks in the group for jury duty soon. Volunteers? :) Merry Christmas and may all your stockings be filled with State games for 2016.
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Haven't seen anything since early last month when it appeared charges were close. Anyone have an update?
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Reading through some of this...I'm so glad I'm going to be a defense attorney and not a prosecutor.
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Reading through some of this...I'm so glad I'm going to be a defense attorney and not a prosecutor.
Better yet -- skip the criminal law side entirely -- and go civil litigation. Much more fun!
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Wonder if they'll use the affluenza defense. :P
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AT that school, the LAST thing they can use is the affluenza defense
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go civil litigation. Much more fun
Not for everyone. Having hearings cancelled, judges that are effectively bought out, opposing attorneys who have no problem destroying evidence or counseling their clients to lie, etc. Comparatively, dealing with irate coaches is easy.
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Not for everyone. Having hearings cancelled, judges that are effectively bought out, opposing attorneys who have no problem destroying evidence or counseling their clients to lie, etc. Comparatively, dealing with irate coaches is easy.
What about the ACLU?
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"Investigation regarding others involved in the assault is ongoing, and charges against player Michael Moreno and an unnamed juvenile are expected to be filed shortly," Arredondo said Monday.
Coming . . . .
<crickets>
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<crickets>
I have never heard how this was resolved. Anybody know here?
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All individuals involved in the incident have been punished for the assault against the sports official. The coach involved received a conviction after he entered his plea of “guilt” in December 2015. He was sentenced to one year of jail which was probated for 18 months. He was ordered to pay restitution, a fine, court costs, and he was required to resign his teaching certificate. The two players received their punishments in May 2016. One player involved was a juvenile. He was adjudicated as a juvenile delinquent based upon his plea of “true.” The juvenile was ordered to pay restitution, and he was placed on a one year probation. The other player was an adult. He entered a plea of “guilty” and placed on one year deferred adjudication by the Court. He was also ordered to pay restitution as well as fines and court costs. Although the two players were handled by different criminal processes (Adult/Juvenile), their punishments were intended to match as closely as possible. Decisions regarding whether or the students should ever participate in UIL activities into the future were not made at the court level. The authority for such decisions belong to the UIL. The results of the cases were reported to the UIL.
Burnet County Attorney
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Was that a Press Release? Found where?
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Email from County Attorney.
I am interested to hear what the UIL has done.
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Email from County Attorney.
I am interested to hear what the UIL has done.
I could look it up again, but memory says there was a hearing in October / November at which the Coach did not participate. He had resigned from his position. The UIL suspended his teaching creditenals for 3 years from when he appears before the UIl . . . so he may never be back in coaching in the public schools. As for the kids, both were sent to an alternative school through the fall semester, and were allowed to return to the main HS in January. The Senior was barred from all sports the remainder of the school year. The Sophomore was also suspended for the rest of the year, and I believe he could request permission after that, which may or may not be granted as a matter of right.
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I could look it up again, but memory says there was a hearing in October / November at which the Coach did not participate. He had resigned from his position. The UIL suspended his teaching creditenals for 3 years from when he appears before the UIl . . . so he may never be back in coaching in the public schools. As for the kids, both were sent to an alternative school through the fall semester, and were allowed to return to the main HS in January. The Senior was barred from all sports the remainder of the school year. The Sophomore was also suspended for the rest of the year, and I believe he could request permission after that, which may or may not be granted as a matter of right.
Just for clarification, the UIL cannot affect any teaching credentials. That is strictly up to the TEA. Those two agencies are not directly connected.
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All in all, not a bad set of sentences. Glad to hear it was resolved.
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Jay player may return.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/high_school/high_school_football/article/UIL-permits-Jay-player-in-referee-incident-to-10862646.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/high_school/high_school_football/article/UIL-permits-Jay-player-in-referee-incident-to-10862646.php)
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Well, that's disappointing...
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Jay player may return.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/high_school/high_school_football/article/UIL-permits-Jay-player-in-referee-incident-to-10862646.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/high_school/high_school_football/article/UIL-permits-Jay-player-in-referee-incident-to-10862646.php)
Another good reason to stay retired!!!! hEaDbAnG
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http://foxsanantonio.com/sports/john-jay-athlete-who-tackled-ref-will-be-allowed-to-play-football-again
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"He will remain on probation and one violation would be cause for automatic dismissal from the UIL program"
What would constitute a violation ?
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What would constitute a violation ?
from the first article:
"He will remain on probation, meaning any unsportsmanlike conduct would result in Rojas’ automatic dismissal from UIL activities."
Presumably, that would mean any UNS penalty would violate his UIL probation and be cause for dismissal?
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/high_school/high_school_football/article/UIL-permits-Jay-player-in-referee-incident-to-10862646.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/high_school/high_school_football/article/UIL-permits-Jay-player-in-referee-incident-to-10862646.php)
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Doubtful
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from the first article:
"He will remain on probation, meaning any unsportsmanlike conduct would result in Rojas’ automatic dismissal from UIL activities."
Presumably, that would mean any UNS penalty would violate his UIL probation and be cause for dismissal?
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/high_school/high_school_football/article/UIL-permits-Jay-player-in-referee-incident-to-10862646.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/high_school/high_school_football/article/UIL-permits-Jay-player-in-referee-incident-to-10862646.php)
If that were accurate, it would be really easy to get rid of him the first play of the season that he plays. But, I doubt that's what the UIL means.
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For those of you in the SA area, do you foresee a lot of officials scratching that school for the upcoming season?
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For those of you in the SA area, do you foresee a lot of officials scratching that school for the upcoming season?
Highly unlikely.
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Likely
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Likely
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You might get a few to scratch the school, but not many. It's pointless really. What statement are you making and who, really, does it hurt? Those other kids on both teams for whatever game don't deserve it. Time to let it go.
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Not to mention, the school in question has had a microscope put on it since the incident...Some of the best behaved sidelines I've ever seen came in the aftermath.
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I agree that the other athletes at the school don't deserve the punishment, however the school needs to step up and declare that they will not have a player who would do that on their team.
If the school don't step up to their responsibility to set an example to the other players, then I would fully support any officials who would not accept an assignment with that school involved.
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http://kxan.com/2017/01/17/high-school-football-player-who-tackled-referee-allowed-to-play-again/
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You're going to have to be more specific, I'm pretty sure there's more than one official in Texas.
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Easy for those not affected by it to say let is go. Now there is current legislation being proposed that will disallow someone who assaults an official to get back on the field. This law is being proposed because of Rojas' actions. However, Rojas will not be subject to the law. Pretty sad.
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