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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: houstonjaguar on November 17, 2015, 02:05:56 PM

Title: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
Post by: houstonjaguar on November 17, 2015, 02:05:56 PM
Video in link.  Play from FCS game last Saturday.

http://www.13newsnow.com/story/sports/2015/11/14/spartans-suffer-disappointing-senior-day-loss-to-bulldogs/75791904/
Title: Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
Post by: mishatx on November 17, 2015, 02:44:43 PM
hard to see the critical moment, but it looks like a toss forward instead of a handoff.  ^no
Title: Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
Post by: The Roamin' Umpire on November 18, 2015, 09:01:07 AM
At that range, this is much more likely to be a fumbled handoff than an attempted pass. I'd have to be REALLY damned sure that this was a toss to whistle it dead... and I'm not from that video.
Title: Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
Post by: hefnerjm on November 19, 2015, 02:58:28 PM
At that range, this is much more likely to be a fumbled handoff than an attempted pass. I'd have to be REALLY darned sure that this was a toss to whistle it dead... and I'm not from that video.

I seem to remember a point of emphasis earlier this year (or last?) about these "jet" sweep type plays and how coaches were intentionally teaching players to do this short toss forward (instead of a handoff) because it should be ruled an incomplete pass if the ball is dropped and reduces the risk of turnover on a high speed play.  Example of the rules interpretation resulting in coaches changing strategy/tactics.
Title: Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
Post by: BrendanP on November 20, 2015, 07:14:32 AM
At that range, this is much more likely to be a fumbled handoff than an attempted pass. I'd have to be REALLY darned sure that this was a toss to whistle it dead... and I'm not from that video.

Yeah, it'd be hard to see at real-time speed, but if it's forward, it's forward. This situation came up on the first play from scrimmage in the Michigan/Rutgers game two weeks ago. What was initially ruled a fumble on the field was reversed and ruled an incomplete forward pass by replay.
Title: Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
Post by: hefnerjm on November 20, 2015, 09:17:25 AM
Yeah, it'd be hard to see at real-time speed, but if it's forward, it's forward. This situation came up on the first play from scrimmage in the Michigan/Rutgers game two weeks ago. What was initially ruled a fumble on the field was reversed and ruled an incomplete forward pass by replay.

Since hearing about these plays at a clinic this spring, we have basically been instructed this way:

Can you "see air" between the handoff QB and the jet player?
    if yes, its a forward pass.
    if no, its a handoff

officiate subsequent loose balls accordingly.
Title: Re: Incomplete Pass or Fumble?
Post by: Aussie-Zebra on November 22, 2015, 09:12:57 AM
Yeah, it'd be hard to see at real-time speed, but if it's forward, it's forward. This situation came up on the first play from scrimmage in the Michigan/Rutgers game two weeks ago. What was initially ruled a fumble on the field was reversed and ruled an incomplete forward pass by replay.

https://vimeo.com/146545118