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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on May 09, 2016, 07:02:00 PM

Title: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: TXMike on May 09, 2016, 07:02:00 PM
4th and 10 at the A-40.  Apparent punter is standing at the A-32.  5 minutes left in 1st half, A is winning 20-13. Game clock is running as  Play clock expires. Does clock start on the snap or the RFP?
Title: Re: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: Legacy Zebra on May 09, 2016, 10:41:43 PM
RFP. Same situation with 5 minutes to go in the second half, I would use 3-4-3 and go on the snap.
Title: Re: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on May 10, 2016, 04:42:51 AM
RFP. Same situation with 5 minutes to go in the second half, I would use 3-4-3 and go on the snap.

Agree - 2nd quarter at 5 minutes is probably too early to be using 3-4-3, but 4th quarter its a good fit.
Title: Re: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: DallasLJ on May 10, 2016, 10:21:28 AM
Agree - 2nd quarter at 5 minutes is probably too early to be using 3-4-3, but 4th quarter its a good fit.
  I would go RFP in both 2nd and 4th Quarter with 5 minutes left -- unless Team A was taking multiple delays or FSTs that I deemed intentional or unfair.  I am generally not going to invoke 3-4-3 with more than 3 minutes on the clock.
Title: Re: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: refbuz on May 11, 2016, 03:06:23 PM
It's close enough. Start it on the Snap.

3-3-2-d-11
Title: Re: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: Legacy Zebra on May 11, 2016, 03:15:01 PM
That's the trap TXMike wanted you to fall into. A single kicker 8 yards deep no longer qualifies as a scrimmage kick formation. This situation is no longer automatically on the snap.
Title: Re: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: refbuz on May 11, 2016, 04:36:30 PM
D'oh, didn't see the changes...
Title: Re: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: TXMike on May 11, 2016, 06:50:37 PM
That's the trap TXMike wanted you to fall into. A single kicker 8 yards deep no longer qualifies as a scrimmage kick formation. This situation is no longer automatically on the snap.
  C'mon Man!!!  I don't roll that way.   ;D
I really was just trying to get some opinions on invoking ref discretion .  Not trying to highlight the rule change.  Honest!!!
Title: Re: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on May 12, 2016, 07:32:08 AM
That's the trap TXMike wanted you to fall into. A single kicker 8 yards deep no longer qualifies as a scrimmage kick formation. This situation is no longer automatically on the snap.

I'm not sure it's a "trap"   ;D but my view of this type of play is that we need to make a value judgment as to the "intent" of team A here and if this occurs late in the 4th quarter and in our view the reason for the DOG flag was due to a "we don't really care" attitude then IMO go on the snap.  Agreed that it's not "automatic" in any case.
Title: Re: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: Kalle on May 13, 2016, 02:41:59 AM
I'm not sure it's a "trap"   ;D but my view of this type of play is that we need to make a value judgment as to the "intent" of team A here and if this occurs late in the 4th quarter and in our view the reason for the DOG flag was due to a "we don't really care" attitude then IMO go on the snap.  Agreed that it's not "automatic" in any case.

3-3-2-d-11 doesn't say that you can't invoke 3-4-3 in other cases, it is specific for one situation only. So, in a scrimmage kick formation you don't need to involve judgement, in other formations you need to make a judgement call.
Title: Re: Scrimmage Kick Formation
Post by: fearlessleader on May 13, 2016, 11:37:48 AM
You had me right up until you put "honest" in there.   ;D