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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: bbeagle on September 22, 2016, 01:47:20 PM
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K winning 12-10 0:10 left
Play: K1 punts the ball. R1 tries to field the ball at the 50, is in position to catch the ball, gives no fair catch signal (presumably so he can run with the ball after catching it), but is still hit by K2 before touching the ball. K3 recovers. :03 left.
The 15 yard penalty for kick-catching-interference is penalized from the 50 to the 35. Is team R now allowed to free-kick for a game winning field goal because this may be deemed an awarded fair catch?
Rules:
6-5-6 This prohibition applies even when no fair-catch signal is given....
PENALTY: For kick-catching interference, R may accept the results of the play, an awarded fair catch after enforcement of a 15-yard penalty from the spot of the foul, or a 15-yard penalty from the previous spot and a replay of the down.
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One of my favorite topics! The answer is yes, team R has an option for a fair catch free kick that can score after the awarded fair catch.
The option to snap or free kick from any hash remains if the down is repeated due to an accepted penalty or IW, or if there is a deadball foul before the play. Meaning R can switch from a free kick to a snap or vice versa if there is an accepted penalty.
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What he said. :thumbup
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So please clear this up for me.
Team A leads 22-20
A fair catch or an awarded fair catch is granted to team B.
They now have the ball 1st and 10 on the 50 yard line.
With :05 seconds left in the game they throw a hail mary pass that falls incomplete. Time has run out :00. DPI is called and obviously accepted.
15 yards from previous spot. 1st and 10 the 35 yard line going in.
Now does Team B (who is behind) have the option to try a free kick now? Does this play still tag itself to the awarded fair catch play?
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Now does Team B (who is behind) have the option to try a free kick now? Does this play still tag itself to the awarded fair catch play?
Correct, they can choose to snap again or have a free kick from anywhere between the hash marks.
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I know I had read that a few yrs back was not sure if it had changed. Do you know where in the rule or case book i can find the support for this.
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Rule 6-5-4. ART. 4 . . . The captain may choose to free kick or snap anywhere between the hash marks:
a. on the yard line through the spot of the catch when a fair catch is made;
b. through the spot of interference, when a fair catch is awarded; or
c. at the succeeding spot when the distance penalty for kick-catch interference is accepted following an awarded fair catch and the down is not replayed.
These choices remain if a dead-ball foul occurs prior to the down, or a foul or an inadvertent whistle occurs during the down and the down is replayed.
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Some quiz questions.
R81 is back to receive a punt. While the punt is in the air, he gives a valid fair catch signal. The ball bounces at the R-45 and is recovered by R81 at the 50 yard line. The BJ blows his whistle. What are R's options?
R81 is back to receive a punt. While the punt is in the air, he gives a valid fair catch signal. R17 catches the punt at the 50 yard line. The BJ blows his whistle. What are R's options?
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Some quiz questions.
R81 is back to receive a punt. While the punt is in the air, he gives a valid fair catch signal. The ball bounces at the R-45 and is recovered by R81 at the 50 yard line. The BJ blows his whistle. What are R's options?
R81 is back to receive a punt. While the punt is in the air, he gives a valid fair catch signal. R17 catches the punt at the 50 yard line. The BJ blows his whistle. What are R's options?
BJ was correct in both scenarios. No options in either scenario. R's ball 1st and 10 @ 50 yard line.
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BJ was correct in both scenarios. No options in either scenario. R's ball 1st and 10 @ 50 yard line.
Bingo. No hash mark option either for R.
Although similar to a fair catch in the sense that the play is dead upon possession of the ball, all of the following:
-Recoveries of a grounded ball after a valid fair catch signal
-Recovery by a different player after a valid fair catch signal
-Invalid fair catch signal
are not fair catches, and thus R has no option to free kick or choose a hash.
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So please clear this up for me.
Team A leads 22-20
A fair catch or an awarded fair catch is granted to team B.
They now have the ball 1st and 10 on the 50 yard line.
With :05 seconds left in the game they throw a hail mary pass that falls incomplete. Time has run out :00. DPI is called and obviously accepted.
15 yards from previous spot. 1st and 10 the 35 yard line going in.
Now does Team B (who is behind) have the option to try a free kick now? Does this play still tag itself to the awarded fair catch play?
Let's make this even more fun. Same scenario, except the foul is on the offense for an ineligible downfield. Does A STILL have the option for a free kick after a fair catch?
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Quick thinking is the defense will decline the ineligible and the game will be over.
Maybe I am not reading something right in your scenario
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Lets go back to the original paly. If R2 picks up the ball and runs with it. Again no signal given. Where is the penalty enforced from if R decides not to have them re-kick? Is it always the spot of the foul?
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Quick thinking is the defense will decline the ineligible and the game will be over.
Maybe I am not reading something right in your scenario
They should. But the point is, it's doesn't matter WHO fouls, ANY accepted foul that causes the down to be replayed means the option remains.
I would like to see it changed so only a foul on the defense would allow the options to remain. But given that the entire free kick after a fair catch only happens once a decade, and having an offensive foul on the next play happens about 1% of those times means we would see this about once every thousand years.
I guess we can worry about more needed rule changes.
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Let's make this even more fun. Same scenario, except the foul is on the offense for an ineligible downfield. Does A STILL have the option for a free kick after a fair catch?
Anyone on K can head downfield on a punt although some should stick around and block a bit.
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Mechanically, however, I don't think I'm asking the coach after the DPI: "Hey, do you want to free kick this? You know you can free kick this, right?"
The baseball umpire in me feels like this is helping one team too much, like on an appeal.
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Mechanically, however, I don't think I'm asking the coach after the DPI: "Hey, do you want to free kick this? You know you can free kick this, right?"
The baseball umpire in me feels like this is helping one team too much, like on an appeal.
Agree. If he asks me if they can do it, I'll answer his question. Otherwise, mum's the word.
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Mechanically, however, I don't think I'm asking the coach after the DPI: "Hey, do you want to free kick this? You know you can free kick this, right?"
The baseball umpire in me feels like this is helping one team too much, like on an appeal.
I'm completely with you and Bama. I'm not telling the coach he has this option on my own, but if he asks, I'll absolutely say that he does.