Post by: Stinterp on July 17, 2018, 07:05:49 PM
Post by: CalhounLJ on July 17, 2018, 07:54:31 PM
Post by: prosec34 on July 17, 2018, 08:54:35 PM
Post by: GA Umpire on July 17, 2018, 10:36:59 PM
How would you rule on this play. K free kicks from the K-40 yard line. While the kick is in the air, K50 is flagged for an illegal block below the waist on the R-40 yard line. The kicked ball bounces out of bounds, untouched, at the K-10 yard line. What are R's options?Would not the receiving team have the option to accept the 10 yard penalty for the illegal block from the succeeding spot, the 35 yard line? 10-4-2 Exception?
I do not have my case book for this year. Is there a case explaining this situation?
Post by: CalhounLJ on July 18, 2018, 06:26:03 AM
Would not the receiving team have the option to accept the 10 yard penalty for the illegal block from the succeeding spot, the 35 yard line? 10-4-2 Exception?
I do not have my case book for this year. Is there a case explaining this situation?
The 35 does not become the succeeding spot until R makes a decision on the oob foul. If he makes a decision on the oob foul, he has effectively declined the illegal block foul. If he accepts the illegal block foul, the succeeding spot will be the oob spot because he will not have the option to put the ball in play 25 yds beyond the previous spot.
Post by: CalhounLJ on July 18, 2018, 06:29:30 AM
Would there not be the possibility of the blocking foul being assessed from the previous spot since it was a loose-ball foul? Re-kick from 25 if that penalty is accepted.
Yes I missed that option.
Post by: bossman72 on July 18, 2018, 08:37:26 AM
Would not the receiving team have the option to accept the 10 yard penalty for the illegal block from the succeeding spot, the 35 yard line? 10-4-2 Exception?
I do not have my case book for this year. Is there a case explaining this situation?
No, this is a multiple foul situation. They are both live ball fouls and you can only accept one.
CalhounLJ nailed it.
Post by: AlUpstateNY on July 18, 2018, 09:23:18 AM
6-1-9b (new), 6-1-9b Penalty (new), 10-4-2 (note), 10-5-1 (new): New penalty option for fouls by kicking team:
RATIONALE: "In an effort to reduce re-kicks, further minimize risk & ensure that appropriate penalties are in place for all fouls the committee has added an option for fouls committed by the kicking team during free and scrimmage kicks. The change would allow the receiving team all of the previous options as well as accepting the distance penalty at the end of the down."
"The devil is always in the details", but it's helpful to keep in mind what the original intent was.
Post by: CalhounLJ on July 18, 2018, 09:49:48 AM
Post by: prab on July 18, 2018, 10:27:38 AM
A couple of years back the free kick rule was changed to include the requirement that K have at least 4 players on each side of the free kicker FROM THE RFP. We then discussed whether the intent was actually "when the ball is kicked". The following year it was changed to "when the ball is kicked".
It seems likely that we will have to wait until next year to see whether this year's change stays "during the kick down" or is changed to "during the kick".
Post by: VA Official on July 25, 2018, 09:02:26 PM
The question here is, whether "during the kick" or "during the kick down" is the actual intent of the rule change.
A couple of years back the free kick rule was changed to include the requirement that K have at least 4 players on each side of the free kicker FROM THE RFP. We then discussed whether the intent was actually "when the ball is kicked". The following year it was changed to "when the ball is kicked".
It seems likely that we will have to wait until next year to see whether this year's change stays "during the kick down" or is changed to "during the kick".
They covered that base thankfully.
10-4-2 Exception: "The basic spot may, at the option of the offended team, be the succeeding spot for fouls by K during a free or scrimmage kick down (other than kick catch interference) when K will not be next to put the ball in play."
Edited as this rule will likely be revised to take out the "down"
Post by: CalhounLJ on July 26, 2018, 06:44:40 AM
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Post by: blandis on July 29, 2018, 06:04:50 PM
Post by: prab on August 11, 2018, 12:13:54 PM
They covered that base thankfully.
10-4-2 Exception: "The basic spot may, at the option of the offended team, be the succeeding spot for fouls by K during a free or scrimmage kick down (other than kick catch interference) when K will not be next to put the ball in play."
Edited as this rule will likely be revised to take out the "down"
Our season starts on 8/17. Our state association has not put out anything to suggest that "during the kick down" is being changed to "during the kick". Has anyone heard anything different?
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 11, 2018, 01:00:29 PM
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Post by: ncwingman on August 11, 2018, 01:08:47 PM
R's option is to have the ball at R35-yard line plus the 5-yard tack on to the R40-yard line [...]
This is never an option. The free kick out of bounds penalty can be enforced as a 5 yard tack on from the OOB spot -- OR -- take the ball 25 yards from the previous spot (nominally the 35 under most circumstances). You cannot take the ball 25 yards beyond the previous spot AND a 5 yard tack on.
Post by: Curious on August 12, 2018, 01:44:18 PM
Our season starts on 8/17. Our state association has not put out anything to suggest that "during the kick down" is being changed to "during the kick". Has anyone heard anything different?The NFHS web-site and Power Point haven't changed their wording (yet); but we (in Michigan) have been advised that the interpretation is "during the kick" (which means a whole lot more sense...).
Post by: bbeagle on August 13, 2018, 12:45:32 PM
Punter scrambles, drops the ball, it bounces on the ground 3 times, he kicks the bouncing ball. Flag, illegal kick.
The return team recovers the ball 20 yards downfield and returns for 30 yards. Can we tack on the 15 yards as this is part of the 'free kick down'?
I would think that something like illegal formation kicking team is intended to be a 5-yard tack on, so we don't re-kick. This is not a penalty during the kick, but during the 'free kick down'.
Post by: FLAHL on August 13, 2018, 12:56:50 PM
What about an illegal scrimmage kick? Is this treated the same?
KWH's post copied and pasted from another thread on this subject:
For 10-4-2c to be in effect the following must occur:
1) K must legally kick the football, (this is not the NCAA rule so there is no requirement that the ball cross any line, in fact, in NFHS, it could be blocked for negative yardage) AND,
2) K must commit ANY live ball foul until the end of the kick, (this is not the NCAA rule so there is no requirement of when or even where the K foul occurs), AND
3) K is NOT next to put the ball in play!
If all three of these criteria are met, the offended team, R, may choose succeeding spot enforcement with one exception, if R scores a Touchdown.
If R scores a Touchdown, the succeeding spot is the TRY, UNLESS the criteria of 8-2-3 has been met ( ie; the K foul occurred after the final change of possession);
If 8-2-3 applies, R may choose enforcement of the penalty on the TRY or the Subsequent Kickoff.
So... all the options from 2017 are still intact, however, in addition, we can now offer up the "tack-on option" as well.
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 13, 2018, 01:02:47 PM
In other words, this was not a kick, free, scrimmage, or otherwise.
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Post by: prab on August 13, 2018, 06:14:55 PM
KWH's post copied and pasted from another thread on this subject:
For 10-4-2c to be in effect the following must occur:
1) K must legally kick the football, (this is not the NCAA rule so there is no requirement that the ball cross any line, in fact, in NFHS, it could be blocked for negative yardage) AND,
2) K must commit ANY live ball foul until the end of the kick, (this is not the NCAA rule so there is no requirement of when or even where the K foul occurs), AND
3) K is NOT next to put the ball in play!
If all three of these criteria are met, the offended team, R, may choose succeeding spot enforcement with one exception, if R scores a Touchdown.
If R scores a Touchdown, the succeeding spot is the TRY, UNLESS the criteria of 8-2-3 has been met ( ie; the K foul occurred after the final change of possession);
If 8-2-3 applies, R may choose enforcement of the penalty on the TRY or the Subsequent Kickoff.
So... all the options from 2017 are still intact, however, in addition, we can now offer up the "tack-on option" as well.
Isn't kick catching interference exempted from the "ANY live ball foul"
Post by: bbeagle on August 14, 2018, 07:03:18 AM
To answer your question, no. A ball that is illegally kicked retains the status it was in before the player kicked it.
Yes, I understand that an illegal kick retains the status it was before the player kicked it (i.e. most likely a fumble).
But it was still a KICK. Is there a definition of what a 'free kick down' is? Does there have to be an action of a leg hitting a ball (a KICK) or the ball in a KICK STATUS?
Post by: bama_stripes on August 14, 2018, 07:05:04 AM
Isn't kick catching interference exempted from the "ANY live ball foul"
KCI already has its own tack-on provision.
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 14, 2018, 08:03:50 AM
Yes, I understand that an illegal kick retains the status it was before the player kicked it (i.e. most likely a fumble).
But it was still a KICK. Is there a definition of what a 'free kick down' is? Does there have to be an action of a leg hitting a ball (a KICK) or the ball in a KICK STATUS?
No it's not a kick. A has kicked a fumble. I understand the difficulty in discerning the difference, but for penalty enforcement, it is necessary to distinguish between a down in which the ball is legally kicked and a player kicking the ball. In the play you posted, the down was a normal scrimmage down, not a scrimmage kick, because A never legally kicked the ball. He kicked a fumble, and so the kicking penalty exception does not apply.
Let's look at it this way. If K had kicked the ball legally, and then, while the ball was loose on the ground, he kicked it again, and the ball went through R's endzone, then the exception would apply. R could take the 15yd penalty from the previous spot, or take the ball at the 20 b/c of the touchback and add on a 15yd penatly. The exception would apply in this situation because the ball was legally kicked before it was illegally kicked..
Also, let me point out that the exception applies for scrimmage kicks as well as free kicks....
Post by: AlUpstateNY on August 14, 2018, 09:13:24 AM
No it's not a kick. A has kicked a fumble. I understand the difficulty in discerning the difference, but for penalty enforcement, it is necessary to distinguish between a down in which the ball is legally kicked and a player kicking the ball.
For many (most) of us, rules related to the "Kicking game" cause the most consternation. Rule 6 (all of it) usually requires slow, repeated, uninterrupted reading as does 2-24-1 through 10. (2-24-2 is worthy of tattooing on, or carving into, the forearm). Thoroughly understanding 9-7-1 through 4 is well worth the effort.
Post by: bbeagle on August 14, 2018, 09:31:24 AM
I think I stopped reading there in determining that any striking of the ball with a foot denotes a scrimmage kick, including an illegal kick.
If I read further into 2-24-4 it says, 'Either a place kick, punt or drop kick mac be used.' This seems to imply that an illegal kick would not be a 'scrimmage kick'. Therefore, an illegal kick cannot be part of a 'scrimmage kick down'.
It's convoluted.
2-24-4 should read: 'A scrimmage kick is any LEGAL kick from in or behind the neutral zone during a scrimmage down. Legal kicks include a place kick, punt or drop kick. Any other kick is an illegal kick.'
Post by: AlUpstateNY on August 14, 2018, 07:04:27 PM
If I read further into 2-24-4 it says, 'Either a place kick, punt or drop kick mac be used.' This seems to imply that an illegal kick would not be a 'scrimmage kick'. Therefore, an illegal kick cannot be part of a 'scrimmage kick down'.
Although, clarity and brevity, are not necessarily required for NFHS rule descriptions, NFHS 2-24-9 clearly states, " An illegal kick is any intentional striking of the ball with the knee, lower leg or foot that does not comply with Articles 3 and 4 (definitions of Free-kick and scrimmage kicks) separating legal and illegal kicks.
Post by: js in sc on August 14, 2018, 08:20:21 PM
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 14, 2018, 08:51:35 PM
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Post by: Ralph Damren on August 15, 2018, 07:40:02 AM
It may be a generalization to say "an illegal kick can not be part of a scrimmage kick down". If the ball is legally kicked, blocked, and then illegally kicked during a scrimmage kick down, it is still a scrimmage kick down and the illegal kick is part of the scrimmage kick down.Good point, I blew an option last year by not thinking this through.
(1) 3 & 10 on K's 5;
(2) K1 quick-kicks (punt) from K's EZ;
(3) R1 is quicker and blocks punt;
(4) K1's soccer skills return as he kicks bouncing ball in EZ;
(5) K1's IK sails OOB @ K's 8;
(6) ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag (5-man crew);
(7) K's EZ foul = safety and off we went ^talk ^talk yEs:;
A few plays later my tR:oLl brain cramp tR:oLl disappeared.....
(1) I realized that the punt + block + bouncing + IK = IK OOB = punt OOB;
(2) A punt OOB becomes R's ball regardless of down;
(3) If R declined the penalty, it would have been their ball 1st & goal at K's 8 -depending on game situation - possibly a better choice than a safety.
I purchased the "groceries" for the journey home hEaDbAnG.
"JUST WHEN YOU THINK THAT YOU KNOW EVERYTHING, YOU FIND THAT YOU DON'T" -author unknown
:( :o ??? ::) :-X :'( :!#
Post by: bbeagle on August 15, 2018, 08:00:02 AM
It may be a generalization to say "an illegal kick can not be part of a scrimmage kick down". If the ball is legally kicked, blocked, and then illegally kicked during a scrimmage kick down, it is still a scrimmage kick down and the illegal kick is part of the scrimmage kick down.
Maybe to clarify - If all kicks during a scrimmage down are illegal kicks, then it is not a scrimmage kick down. At least one legal kick, regardless of how many illegal kicks makes it by definition a scrimmage kick down.
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 15, 2018, 09:01:24 AM
Good point, I blew an option last year by not thinking this through.
(1) 3 & 10 on K's 5;
(2) K1 quick-kicks (punt) from K's EZ;
(3) R1 is quicker and blocks punt;
(4) K1's soccer skills return as he kicks bouncing ball in EZ;
(5) K1's IK sails OOB @ K's 8;
(6) ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag (5-man crew);
(7) K's EZ foul = safety and off we went ^talk ^talk yEs:;
A few plays later my tR:oLl brain cramp tR:oLl disappeared.....
(1) I realized that the punt + block + bouncing + IK = IK OOB = punt OOB;
(2) A punt OOB becomes R's ball regardless of down;
(3) If R declined the penalty, it would have been their ball 1st & goal at K's 8 -depending on game situation - possibly a better choice than a safety.
I purchased the "groceries" for the journey home hEaDbAnG.
"JUST WHEN YOU THINK THAT YOU KNOW EVERYTHING, YOU FIND THAT YOU DON'T" -author unknown
:( :o ??? ::) :-X :'( :!#
Great story Ralph. Now, in light of the new exception, could R take the ball at the oob AND add on a half-the-distance penalty for the illegal kick in the EZ?
Post by: AlUpstateNY on August 15, 2018, 09:03:33 AM
"JUST WHEN YOU THINK THAT YOU KNOW EVERYTHING, YOU FIND THAT YOU DON'T" -author unknown
:( :o ??? ::) :-X :'( :!#
[/quote]
Actually, I think my father originated this quote (or chose to forget where he heard it)
Post by: SCline on August 15, 2018, 09:35:08 AM
Great story Ralph. Now, in light of the new exception, could R take the ball at the oob AND add on a half-the-distance penalty for the illegal kick in the EZ?
I’ve changed my mind and believe that R would have the option to accept the penalty from the OOB spot as there are two “enforcement spots” available for this foul (8-5-2)
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 15, 2018, 09:55:17 AM
Post by: Ralph Damren on August 15, 2018, 10:02:30 AM
Great story Ralph. Now, in light of the new exception, could R take the ball at the oob AND add on a half-the-distance penalty for the illegal kick in the EZ?A very good point. IMHO, where there hadn't been a possession or change of possession after the legal kick, it would have remained "during the kick" when the IK went OOB. With our new ,spiffy tack-on option, IMHO, R could have taken the ball @ K's 4. IMHO, I'll wait for KWH (the rule's author) to chime in with his opinion.
Post by: prab on August 15, 2018, 11:17:53 AM
K 4th and 10 at K10 yard line. K lines up in punt formation, but has only 6 players on LOS. Ball is snapped and K gets off a legal punt. R catches punt an R 45 yard line and is immediately tackled.
Under last year's rules, if R accepts penalty, it will be K's ball 4th and 15 from K 5yard line. If R declines penalty it will be R's ball at R 45 yard line.
Using the new rule the foul occurred "during a kick down" and would meet the "tack on" criteria. However, under the "during the kick" interpretation, it would not meet the "tack on" criteria.
Is this a correct interpretation or am I missing something?
Post by: AlUpstateNY on August 15, 2018, 01:11:24 PM
Question regarding fouls that are "simultaneous with the snap".
K 4th and 10 at K10 yard line. K lines up in punt formation, but has only 6 players on LOS. Ball is snapped and K gets off a legal punt. R catches punt an R 45 yard line and is immediately tackled.
Under last year's rules, if R accepts penalty, it will be K's ball 4th and 15 from K 5yard line. If R declines penalty it will be R's ball at R 45 yard line.
Using the new rule the foul occurred "during a kick down" and would meet the "tack on" criteria. However, under the "during the kick" interpretation, it would not meet the "tack on" criteria.
Is this a correct interpretation or am I missing something?
Pending some hopeful "official clarification" (or revised language) I'm focusing on the stated "Rationale" (2/8/18) announcing the revision of NFHS 6-1-9b to guide application, "In an effort to reduce re-kicks, further minimize risk and insure that appropriate penalties are in place for ALL fouls, the committee has added an option for fouls committed by K during free and scrimmage kicks. The change would allow the receiving team all of the previous options as well as accepting the distance penalty from the end of the down."
Hopefully that will not hamper my persistent, but ever elusive, pursuit of working that 1st perfect game.
Post by: VA Official on August 15, 2018, 01:11:43 PM
Question regarding fouls that are "simultaneous with the snap".
K 4th and 10 at K10 yard line. K lines up in punt formation, but has only 6 players on LOS. Ball is snapped and K gets off a legal punt. R catches punt an R 45 yard line and is immediately tackled.
Under last year's rules, if R accepts penalty, it will be K's ball 4th and 15 from K 5yard line. If R declines penalty it will be R's ball at R 45 yard line.
Using the new rule the foul occurred "during a kick down" and would meet the "tack on" criteria. However, under the "during the kick" interpretation, it would not meet the "tack on" criteria.
Is this a correct interpretation or am I missing something?
Can't speak for the "during the kick" interpretation as that is something your individual state interpreter would have to answer. Some interpretations for "during the kick" that I've seen incorporate the time from the snap to the kick (in addition to during the kick), while others may not. For the existing rule as written, fouls simultaneous with the snap meet the requirements for tack-on enforcement as long as K is not next to put the ball in play.
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 15, 2018, 02:57:47 PM
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Post by: prab on August 15, 2018, 03:56:08 PM
Post by: prab on August 16, 2018, 09:57:02 AM
Makes sense to me.
Post by: Badger1 on August 16, 2018, 02:18:01 PM
Does that mean that a hold by K prior to a punt is then not subject to the new rule and is only enforced back at the spot of the foul and cannot be added to the succeeding spot?
Post by: bbeagle on August 16, 2018, 03:17:46 PM
Wisconsin governing body has just informed us that we are to use "during the kick" and not "during a kick down".
Makes sense to me.
That makes no sense for an illegal formation by the offense on a 4th down punt.
This should be a 5 yard tack-on. This is the type of play this rule is meant to address, and not have a re-kick.
Post by: VA Official on August 16, 2018, 03:32:13 PM
Wisconsin governing body has just informed us that we are to use "during the kick" and not "during a kick down".
Makes sense to me.
Does this include action prior to the kick as well? (Illegal formation, motion, etc.) If not, this interpretation defeats the entire purpose of the rule; to minimize the number of re-kicks.
Post by: Badger1 on August 16, 2018, 03:57:43 PM
We’ve received several rule questions on the new rule addressing free and scrimmage kicks.
Q: 6-1-9b (NEW), 6-1-9b PENALTY (NEW), 10-4-2 EXCEPTION (NEW), 10-5-1j (NEW): New penalty option adopted for fouls by kicking team.
Rationale: In an effort to reduce re-kicks, further minimize risk and ensure that appropriate penalties are in place for all fouls, the committee has added an option for fouls committed by the kicking team during free and scrimmage kicks. The change would allow the receiving team all of the previous options as well as accepting the distance penalty at the end of the down.
However, when the rule book was published 10-4-2 EXCEPTION was changed to during a free or scrimmage kick down.
There is a significant difference between the two phrases. During the kick down includes activity after the kick has ended. I think that they meant to say during the kick, but that is not how it is now written.
Q: 4th down, K punts but commits an illegal formation foul. R returns the ball for a TD. Under the existing enforcement for fouls during a scoring play, can R take the score and enforce the 5 yard penalty on the try? Or is the phrase "during the down" significant in that the illegal formation actually happens prior to the down. Since there is not necessarily "action" on an illegal formation foul. Say there is only 6 on the line and all are set. As in case book situation 7.2.1 B I say 10-4-2a previous spot if accepted. But other officials think it could be tacked on.
A: The intent was “during the kick” not during the “kick down.” The foul must occur during the kick. This foul occurs during the kick down so the new rule doesn't apply. The foul must occur during the kick, not during the kick down as the rulebook states. A subtle but important distinction.
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 16, 2018, 04:29:19 PM
For a free kick, the loose ball portion we call the kick begins with the kicking of the ball and ends when the kick ends. Any foul occurring during this time frame is included in the exception.
The way I understand it, the intention from the rules committee is that any foul occurring after the kick has ended is not to be included in this exception, nor is any dead ball foul such as encroachment, etc. to be included.
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Post by: prab on August 16, 2018, 04:41:15 PM
“During the kick” implies all action from snap until the kick ends. All the action included in the time frame between the snap and the the time the kick ends is included in the loose ball play we refer to as the kick. Any foul during that time period is subject to this exception, including fouls simultaneous with the snap.
For a free kick, the loose ball portion we call the kick begins with the kicking of the ball and ends when the kick becomes dead. Any foul occurring during this time frame is included in the exception.
The way I understand it, the intention from the rules committee is that any foul occurring after the kick has ended is not to be included in this exception, nor is any dead ball foul such as encroachment, etc. to be included.
+1 This makes perfect sense and I hope that the NFHS approves this interpretation of the new rule!
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Post by: bossman72 on August 16, 2018, 10:30:17 PM
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 17, 2018, 06:51:56 AM
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Post by: bbeagle on August 17, 2018, 09:27:23 AM
Anything by K that would have previous spot enforcement is eligible for the tack on. That was the rule's intent.
I agree.
Illegal formation by K, receiving team runs to 50. Tack on 5 - Receiving team's ball at the K45.
AFTER THE KICK, aren't all K fouls tacked on anyways? Facemask at the 25, R tackled to the 50. Facemask tacked on, Receiving team's ball at the K35.
The only plays not tacked on are say, Facemask at the 25, R loses the ball, R recovers the ball at the 30, runs to the 50 and is tackled. That type of play, you'd enforce the foul from the R25 (end of the run with the foul) not the 50.
Does this rule mean in this case that the Facemask is tacked on at the 50 instead of the R25? Unless it means until the end of the kick?
Post by: prab on August 17, 2018, 09:36:01 AM
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 17, 2018, 10:23:59 AM
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Post by: prab on August 17, 2018, 10:34:11 AM
Beg your pardon, but that is completely against this new exception.
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I agree completely! However, it is what it is. I just hope that the NFHS publishes a "what we really meant" clarification soon.
Post by: AlUpstateNY on August 17, 2018, 10:53:12 AM
I agree completely! However, it is what it is. I just hope that the NFHS publishes a "what we really meant" clarification soon.FWIW, a definition of mindless bureaucracy, "When common sense and logic contradict written instruction, to automatically follow the instruction rather than reason the objective".
Hopefully NFHS will issue a workable clarification, that will spare us that dilemma, BEFORE the 2018 season begins.
Post by: prab on August 17, 2018, 10:55:32 AM
FWIW, a definition of mindless bureaucracy, "When common sense and logic contradict written instruction,to automatically follow the instruction rather than reasoning the objective".
Hopefully NFHS will issue a workable clarification, that will spare us that dilemma, BEFORE the 2018 season begins.
Again, I agree completely! However, our season starts at 7 PM tonight. I hope that the NFHS hurries!!!
Post by: CalhounLJ on August 17, 2018, 12:35:09 PM
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Post by: Curious on August 17, 2018, 11:53:45 PM
Wisconsin has clarified its position and it seems that we are going against the mainstream of thought on this board. We are going literally with "during the kick". Until/unless NFHS issues clarification, live ball fouls committed by K between the snap and the kick ARE NOT TACK ON FOULS! For example K has only 6 players on the line at the snap. We are to consider this as a previous spot enforcement foul. Yes, I realize that this defeats the purpose of trying to reduce the number of re-kicks, but that is the way it is here, at least for now.Here in Michigan, our instructions are "during the kick"; (i.e., from snap to end of kick"...). I think (hope) that's really what the committee intended. It cuts down on re-kicks without muddying other enforcement rules tiphat:
Post by: bossman72 on August 19, 2018, 04:01:37 PM
Does this rule mean in this case that the Facemask is tacked on at the 50 instead of the R25? Unless it means until the end of the kick?
The way the rule reads now AS IS, I think it would let you tack this FMM on to the 50. The intent of the rule is that this FMM would be enforced using normal all but one (like last year) since it happened after the kick ended. Only fouls with previous spot enforcement do they want eligible for tack on.
Post by: Ralph Damren on August 20, 2018, 12:00:17 PM
Post by: VA Official on August 20, 2018, 12:29:14 PM
Once the kick has ended, it is no longer a kicking play but a running play(s). The basic spot would be the end of the run or related run if a fumble occurred.
Ralph, I think we all agree this is how it should be and I'm glad to hear it from someone on the committee. Do we know if the NFHS will be communicating this in some form?
Post by: VALJ on August 21, 2018, 04:19:02 PM
The 'tack on' for a kick OOB applies only if R is taking the ball at the spot where the ball went OOB. If the kick goes out anywhere from the goal line to the R 30 yard line, R will take the ball at the 35, NOT the 40. If the ball goes out of bounds in front of the R30, they will tack on 5 to the spot where the ball went OOB...