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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: Ralph Damren on July 26, 2018, 10:58:00 AM
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It has been announced that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts will play by NFHS football rules beginning with the 2019 Season. That set the basis for today's trivia tester :
(1) Previously, which was the last state to adopt NFHS football rules?
(2) There are four commonwealths, can you name the other three?
(3) Why did they decide on commonwealths in lieu of states?
aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd...GO FOR THE GOLD
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It has been announced that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts will play by NFHS football rules beginning with the 2019 Season. That set the basis for today's trivia tester :
(1) Previously, which was the last state to adopt NFHS football rules?
(2) There are four commonwealths, can you name the other three?
(3) Why did they decide on commonwealths in lieu of states?
aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd...GO FOR THE GOLD
I'll take a shot:
1) Total guess. I know the first NFHS rules were put forward in the 1930's, so based on that I'd say Hawaii, simply based on it being the 50th state.
2) Kentucky, Virginia, Pennsylvania
3) There's no functional difference today, nor at the time of the independence of the country. In the age of colonization were generally defining an independent and self selecting republic. So I suspect because that's the way it always was.
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I'll take a shot:
1) Total guess. I know the first NFHS rules were put forward in the 1930's, so based on that I'd say Hawaii, simply based on it being the 50th state.
2) Kentucky, Virginia, Pennsylvania
3) There's no functional difference today, nor at the time of the independence of the country. In the age of colonization were generally defining an independent and self selecting republic. So I suspect because that's the way it always was.
Thanks for trying, Jackhammer, you nailed #2. Kentucky was originally part of Virginia and the commonwealth when it declared statehood. Hint of #1 : The last two states to join NFHS border our newest state.
The story I've been told regarding commonwealth was that, several years before our revolution, a British scholar wrote : "Our country would be better if ruled by a commonwealth of commoners than by a crazy king." This did not go over well with the king and the scholar lost his head. As the Founding Fathers drew up their plans, the most rabble-rousing colonies, VA, PA, and MA announced that they wished to be commonwealths as a poke in the eye of King George.
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Why did MA decide to join?
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I knew there was some consideration for it but my association hasn't said anything to us officials as of yet. I haven't heard anything from the MIAA either. I don't know what the rationale would be to change at this point. I know my association just got the order for the new NCAA rule books in and those are for two years. Personally I like sticking with one code for the sake of consistency but I don't make those decisions.
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Will this put an end to the only state using 11 minute quarters for football???
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Answer to Q1: Connecticut and Rhode Island?
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Will this put an end to the only state using 11 minute quarters for football???
Ha! Doubt it. Some leagues do 10 minutes for varsity and non league games.
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So basically everyone in MA will be rookies all over again.
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So basically everyone in MA will be rookies all over again.
I foresee rule misapplication all over especially when it comes to blocking below the waist. I know it will throw a bunch of coaches for a loop since low blocking is a staple of their offenses.
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Answer to Q1: Connecticut and Rhode Island?
You're half way there, Kevin. Connecticut entered in 1979. For the next -to-last, think of Steve.
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My board services many Pop Warner & AYF leagues and we use NFHS rules when working those games.
We hold discussions about the rule differences.
And make dam sure we don't mess to on the Varsity field with federation rules. ^talk
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They're switching in other sports, too. This article deals mostly with volleyball.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/high-schools/2018/08/07/miaa-aligns-rulebooks-with-nfhs-standards/PaYONZeBzPxHRDhlNwQldM/story.html
It will be for the 2019/2020 school year.
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The change doesn't seem to be very popular with Mass. coaches or officials.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/20/miaa-rule-changes-draw-flag-from-coaches-officials/
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Some of us here in southeastern MA have been doing some of our games in RI (NFHS rules) for the last 3-4 years. No major issues that I'm aware of but the blow-and-throw for team B encroachment is a bit challenging to handle given that under NCAA rules we hold the whistle and let the play go. We usually end up with the flag and then a delayed whistle after the snap. We did get better at it as we went along but the long term training is a bit tough to change when you need an "instant" whistle. I did not see any problems with the blocking below the waist differences or the enforcement of team A penalties where the spot was in the team A backfield. I will say that the rules differences documents that I've tracked down via this board have been extremely helpful. We'll see how our preseason training goes. ::)
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54% said they would be unable to officiate in a safe manner by Sept? Way overdramatic...
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The recent MIAA decision to switch from NCAA to National Federation of High School (NFHS) rules. This decision was made without any input from the MIAA football committee, athletic directors, coaches or officials, the latter two being the major constituent groups relating to high school football in Massachusetts. A similar switch was attempted in the 1990’s, and when both groups vehemently opposed, the MIAA withdrew the proposal. This time around, the MIAA did not consult with any user groups and went right to a vote. A presentation was made to the Tournament Management Committee which voted in favor, it was passed on to the board of directors who voted in favor. It does not appear at any point in the process were the groups directly affected by the rule change asked for any input.
We are being asked to make a change from a set of rules used since at least the mid-1970’s, and officiated by officials for up to 40 years, in effectively less than 7 months. NFHS 2019 rule books are not available until at the earliest May with no definitive date in sight. The MIAA has stated they are trying to secure 2018 rule books (and case books which are separate in NFHS but are one volume in NCAA), but to date, these rule books have only been secured at an extensive cost to local official’s boards. In fact, the MIAA has stated they cannot guarantee that there will be enough rule books for every official in the state. They have also stated the MIAA is trying to get training aids (videos, film, etc.), but to date, nothing but the recent introductory meeting for board leaders and interpreters. These training aids the MIAA references seem to consist of videos produced from YouTube or other state groups, not the NFHS. NFHS rule and case books are available for download via an app or e-book format, but at a cost of $6.99 each. These cannot be reprinted for use by multiple members. NCAA rule books are available free online for download and can be reprinted. This allows for easy dissemination of information. In addition, the CFO (national officiating organization of the NCAA) produces preseason training videos on rules changes, subject videos (pass interference, blocking below the waist, etc.), weekly videos in season, and weekly rules interpretations as well as bi-weekly exams. MIAA football officials are offered a discount rate to join the CFO due to their use of NCAA playing rules. Any official can go to the website and view/download video, regular in season rules interpretations and the like. None of this is available by NFHS. The MIAA has not been able to provide any NFHS training videos other than what can be found on YouTube. Both codes do offer specialty subject manuals. These facts seem to refute the assertion that accessibility and interpretation is better under NFHS.
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In the mammal kingdom, only human babies with soiled diapers want a change. I been in contact with several local officials that have moved to NCAA and they all felt the transmission from NFHS to NCAA was a bigger challenge than originally learning the NFHS rules.
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We are being asked to make a change from a set of rules used since at least the mid-1970’s, and officiated by officials for up to 40 years, in effectively less than 7 months. NFHS 2019 rule books are not available until at the earliest May with no definitive date in sight. The MIAA has stated they are trying to secure 2018 rule books (and case books which are separate in NFHS but are one volume in NCAA), but to date, these rule books have only been secured at an extensive cost to local official’s boards. In fact, the MIAA has stated they cannot guarantee that there will be enough rule books for every official in the state.
You can get an electronic version of the 2018 rules and case books for $7 a piece on amazon right this moment. The 2017 Football rule differences: NFHS & NCAA Rules Compared is available. 2018 The Redding study guide to NFHS Football rules is available on Double S Distributors Web site $17.50. I understand you are not happy with the change, but if one of your concern is having the rules available to you, you don't have to be. And you will be happy that the major rule change this year (for which the actual reading of the rule has not been release yet) is going from the 25 second clock to a 40 second play clock. So the 2018 rule book should be more than enough to get you up to speed.
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The NFHS is not and really has not been into the rules education nor educational product business. They leave that up to the individual states' directors/commissioners/supervisors to accomplish as each state is pretty much free to interpret NFHS rules as they deem necessary.
Certainly your state leadership should be able to consult with a neighboring state to guide you along. I think you'll find that a) NFHS rules aren't that intimidating, b) there are more similarities than you think. The two biggies are you need to blow encroachment immediately and ABO on the offense.
As for resources, for $35 you can join the NFHS directly and get access to all the publications via the Arbiter online. There are also downloadable mobile rule and case book apps. There are a few rules changes that were just released for 2019 so having 2018 material isn't any major problem. There is a Reddings NFHS guide just like there is one for NCAA. The videos produced in Hawaii available online are produced by a dual NFHS/NCAA official.
There will be a learning curve but I don't think its as steep as you think.
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I've chatted with the Mass. rep, Richard Pearson, both via phone & at Indy. He's an amicable guy and is dedicated to making the transfer work. I'm uneasy with the addition of the 40" clock, but it's OUR new rule and WE will make it work. I was chatting once with a full-time substitute teacher, that dealt with a multitude of subjects. I asked how he could keep up with dealing with a different topic to teach every day. His response was : "I don't need to know everything, just need to know a chapter ahead of my students AND pretend I know everything!"
IMHO, he had a good point :). As your are learning the differences, you will probably always be ahead of the coaches ,who work the X's and O's and let you worry about the rule differences. Good luck, and I'm sure (just like I am about the 40" clock) it will work out.
Have a good weekend, all!!
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I don't have a dog in this fight but I do see why there would be so many opposed to the switch. I've been officiating for close to 20 years under the NCAA rules and it has taken a lot of dedication and mental energy to where I feel pretty confident in my knowledge. Rules from any sport or set is not something that you can learn at the level that most dedicated officials want to be. If I were in their shoes I just don't know if I would have the energy required to "start over" with a new rule set to be at the level of knowledge that I would want to be. As I said, it's taken me every bit of those years to get to where I am and I'm sure many of those Mass officials feel the same way. I watch a lot of the NFHS discussions on the rules and I see you guys spit out answers that don't make any sense to an NCAA official but you guys know it very well and it makes sense to you but it is foreign to the rest of us. Sometimes I see some of the answers and I am like hEaDbAnG as to why your rules would be that way.
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I’ll bet that after the first season, most of the MA officials will say “Hey, that wasn’t so bad after all!”
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I’ll bet that after the first season, most of the MA officials will say “Hey, that wasn’t so bad after all!”
And after three or four years, it will seem like they have been using NFHS rules forever.
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Why did Mass. make the change to NFHS rules?
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Why did Mass. make the change to NFHS rules?
According to the reports I saw last summer, the biggest reason was to avoid any potential liability issues. One AD told me that they were concerned that if someone was injured seriously, the fact that the MIAA used rules that were not written for high school-aged athletes could be used against them in court.
While I don't know that NFHS rules are necessarily safer than NCAA, I guess a lawyer could make that case in court.
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According to the reports I saw last summer, the biggest reason was to avoid any potential liability issues. One AD told me that they were concerned that if someone was injured seriously, the fact that the MIAA used rules that were not written for high school-aged athletes could be used against them in court.
Knowing that TX officials follow this discussion, too, a question for them: has this come up in Texas at all? And if it has, what was the reasoning in staying with the NCAA rules?
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Knowing that TX officials follow this discussion, too, a question for them: has this come up in Texas at all? And if it has, what was the reasoning in staying with the NCAA rules?
I haven't heard that it has. The coaches would not allow it.
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From a person of knowledge in Massachusetts:
1) Uniformity!
2) They get the same one vote on the NFHS Rules Committee as all the other 49 NFHS Members receive. (They previously had ZERO input on NCAA Rules Changes)
3) All their bordering states use NFHS Playing Rules.
4) Learning two sets of codes is fairly routine for NFHS members! When NFHS officials move up they learn NCAA Rules and there are tons of cross training/differences material available.
5) Blocking Below the waist is much simpler in NFHS. It doesn't change every week! AND BBW IS ILLEGAL! (except in the free blocking zone up until the ball has left the zone)
6) Much, much less exceptions to rules making it simpler to learn and officiate.
7) The NFHS Blindside Block Rule seriously opened up some eyes in Massachusetts!
8) After discussion with many other NFHS members, they concluded the 49 NFHS members can not be all wrong and they voted to become member #50.
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In the mammal kingdom, only human babies with soiled diapers want a change. I been in contact with several local officials that have moved to NCAA and they all felt the transmission from NFHS to NCAA was a bigger challenge than originally learning the NFHS rules.
Interesting perspective. I've always said it was much easier to transition because the basics are largely the same and basic rule knowledge and knowing when and how to apply them has already been learned. You already know how to officiate.
Most of the major changes that actually happen on a regular basis are in penalty enforcement when you can slow down and take your time. The biggest challenge I see MA having this first year or two is unlike college where a new person is likely working with at least a couple rules experts, these officials won't be working with many
The HS rules are generally simpler although they don't read as well and aren't always the most logical.
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As we understand it, Bill Gaines head of the MIAA became a member of NFHS executive board on the condition he moved the remaining 3 sports not using NFHS rules; Football, Volleyball and Baseball to NFHS rules. MIAA also received $25K for each sport.
MIAA never spoke with AD's coaches or officials about the moves.
You would think a moves like this there would be a discussion with the all parties involved.
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And now, the rest of the story...
Karissa Niehoff of Connecticut was the Section 1 Representative on the NFHS Executive Board.
Karissa resigned her NFHS Executive board position with one year remaining on her term to accept the position of NFHS Executive Director.
Because of the vacancy, Bill Gaine, (not Gaines) executive director of the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association (MIAA), was simply appointed to serve a one-year term representing Section 1, replacing Ms. Niehoff.
NFHS Section 1 consists of: Connecticut, Maine (Home of the Black Bears tiphat:), Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont.
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And now, the rest of the story...
Karissa Niehoff of Connecticut was the Section 1 Representative on the NFHS Executive Board.
Karissa resigned her NFHS Executive board position with one year remaining on her term to accept the position of NFHS Executive Director.
Bill Gaine, (not Gaines) executive director of the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association (MIAA), was simply appointed to serve a one-year term representing Section 1, replacing Ms. Niehoff.
NFHS Section 1 consists of: Connecticut, Maine (Home of the Black Bears tiphat:), Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont.
.....AS THE WORLD TURNS.....
One should also note that three of the four states that begin with "New" are in Section 1. Maine is nearly as large as the other 5 NEW England states combined. The largest section (area wise) is Section 8. Having Alaska helps. That's enough information for one day.
tR:oLl
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For those of you playing along at home.....
Another NFHS trivia question...
Which of the 8 NFHS sections has the least number of voting members???
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8
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By my count (fingers on one hand + thumb -which is a finger - on the other) , there is a tie between sections 4, 6 and 7 with 5 states each. There are some rumored future events
that could change that :
(1) If California became a stand-alone republic or became part of Mexico, section 7 would then have only 4.
(2) I believe that when Texas was granted statehood, an agreement was then made that they could later annex into 5 individual states. If that occurred section 6 would then have 9 states. This would pass section 1 , which has 8.
I'm unsure of the action that would be would be taken by NFHS if either occurred.....
Bonus question : The voting member from DC is in section 2, should the voting members from the coaches association and the officials association be considered in the section that they currently reside in??
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https://www.salemnews.com/sports/coaches-officials-say-football-changes-won-t-be-good-for/article_090ae3c4-77b4-5aca-907b-8a9f60a72977.html
More Mass. officials and coaches voice their displeasure.
I don't really understand the coaches' argument that the switch would mean that their players would not be as prepared to play in college for two reasons, first, states like Florida, Pennsylvania, California and Ohio use Federation rules, send many more players to the college ranks than Massachusetts and they do just fine.
Second, while it's great to help any kid who has the talent and interest to play in college be as prepared for that as possible, most high school football players will not be playing in college. Shouldn't a high school football program be run for the benefit of all of its athletes and not just the standouts who will play in college?
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https://www.salemnews.com/sports/coaches-officials-say-football-changes-won-t-be-good-for/article_090ae3c4-77b4-5aca-907b-8a9f60a72977.html
More Mass. officials and coaches voice their displeasure.
What a bunch of sanctimonious whining and sophistry. As mentioned, 48 states aren't preparing kids (at least the 5 to 10% that will actually go on to the next level) for college, only TX and MA are uniquely qualified to do so? Puh-leeze. And most of the points are laughable - safety is lessened because of differences in the leaping rules?!? How about the safety of low blocks outside the free blocking zone? And you can still eject for targeting, fellas, it's just not automatic.
After all the sound and fury of this nonsense, they'll see that it all signified nothing more than hysterical fear and unwillingness to tackle their own inertia.
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What a bunch of sanctimonious whining and sophistry. As mentioned, 48 states aren't preparing kids (at least the 5 to 10% that will actually go on to the next level) for college, only TX and MA are uniquely qualified to do so? Puh-leeze. And most of the points are laughable - safety is lessened because of differences in the leaping rules?!? How about the safety of low blocks outside the free blocking zone? And you can still eject for targeting, fellas, it's just not automatic.
After all the sound and fury of this nonsense, they'll see that it all signified nothing more than hysterical fear and unwillingness to tackle their own inertia.
+1 for the first use of both sanctimonious and sophistry on the forum! Remember that accuracy is no defense against a charge of insensitivity.
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I was thinking about the idea that using NCAA rules helps high school players get ready for the next level. By that logic, shouldn't everyone at all levels use NFL rules?
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Puh-leeze! pi1eOn
It's all about the money. Mass Interscholastic Athletic Association making money of the backs of the student athletes.
Oh schools get nice trophies anything else Championship jackets and the like schools have to raise the money for those extras.
MIAA collects from game officials $330,000, and the expenses for officials is $255,000 (tournament).
As a football and wrestling official, never had they offered any training for any sports officials.
MIAA Salaries for big wigs $1,330,000 and they get pensions.
Now we have a seat at the football rules committee, is that person a football official no. is that person a coach no, is that person an AD no,
former band director from a HS.
And you wonder why we question their motives.
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I was thinking about the idea that using NCAA rules helps high school players get ready for the next level. By that logic, shouldn't everyone at all levels use NFL rules?
As suggested, only a relatively small percentage of the multitudes playing Football under NFHS rules (and supervision) progress to actually playing at higher levels of the sport. Considering the significant differences in physical abilities, personal maturity and personal/professional objectives it seems appropriate, logical and even prudent that the rules of the game be somewhat specifically tailored to address the different needs, capabilities and objectives of young, and/or fully grown, uniquely talented adult men and pre-teen to High School age children.
Although when fully dressed and outfitted, players at different levels may appear similar, underneath the equipment there are significant differences.
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As suggested, only a relatively small percentage of the multitudes playing Football under NFHS rules (and supervision) progress to actually playing at higher levels of the sport. Considering the significant differences in physical abilities, personal maturity and personal/professional objectives it seems appropriate, logical and even prudent that the rules of the game be somewhat specifically tailored to address the different needs, capabilities and objectives of young, and/or fully grown, uniquely talented adult men and pre-teen to High School age children.
Although when fully dressed and outfitted, players at different levels may appear similar, underneath the equipment there are significant differences.
I was being facetious about using NFL rules at all levels.
My thoughts are pretty much the same as yours.
Though high school football is a farm system for college football (and college for the pros), that's not the main mission of the high school game and high school programs should be run for the benefit of everyone on the team, not just those who will play in college.
And obviously playing under NFHS rules doesn't hurt Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania or California kids when they move on to the next level.