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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: ilyazhito on January 17, 2019, 12:00:59 PM
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Has anyone tried to move up to the college ranks with limited high school experience?
As for me, I officiate for an association that serves public schools in DC (there are 15 traditional public schools that compete in sports. They belong to the DCIAA. 13 schools compete in DCIAA football (12 traditional public schools and Ron Brown College Preparatory High School, an all-boys public school)) with limited charter school games. This means that most weeks, my association only services 6 games (7 if one of the public schools plays a non-league opponent). Since we use 5-man crews for the regular season (7 in the playoffs), this means that only 30 officials are working on the field on a typical game day (out of a total membership of 70). Occasionally, I might get a middle school,or JV game (those games use 4-man crews), but those games are few and far in between.
For the record, my old association, where I called games for 2 years before my membership was not renewed (all members join as probationaries, and have to have their membership renewed by vote of the regular members to stay as regular members. At the time, I did not receive the 2/3 majority vote needed to renew, this has since changed to a simple majority vote.)covered a much larger territory, including public and private schools in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, DC, as well as Southern MD. Thus, I had varsity games almost every week during the regular season (MD uses 6-man crews for varsity games), because the commissioner needed bodies to cover all assignments (this year, the new commissioner has sometimes used members of my association on loan to cover his games when he had a shortage on his staff).
If I was to submit my resume to college assigners (which is a standard part of the application process), they would question my limited on-field experience (I only had 2 on-field varsity assignments this season), and might not want to pick me up. What is something that current college officials in similar situations have used to get around this issue (limited HS assignments available)? I don't want to leave my current HS association, because of the family atmosphere and camaraderie, but this association has limited games available, and does not tolerate people working for other associations, except for the officials on loan to the MD group (those officials are DC members who don't have games that Friday, and who work with the approval of the DC commissioner and MD commissioner).
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You are probably not is a great position to be selected by any NCAA coordinator. About the only thing you can do is go to those clinics that are designed to allow coordinators and other observers the opportunity to observe folks such as yourself, and hope that your skills are good enough to draw the attention of one or more of those folks. Yep, they cost a good deal of money. Yep, that involves travel/lodging at your expense. Yep, you may need to spend years doing that, with no assurance you'll draw interest from anybody. But, that is the 'system' you are in today. (Yes, very different than 20-25 years ago, but those days are gone.)
Go to NCAA games and watch. Watching on TV is OK, but, on TV, you don't see but a fraction of what officials do during a game, especially between plays, etc. NFL doesn't hurt, but you have to be careful about the rule and mechanics differences with NCAA. Find out how you might be allowed to participate in spring/pre-season practices/scrimmages at NAIA/D-3/D-2 sites. Listen. Learn. Be willing to go anywhere, any time. Study. Look at video as much as possible.
Be patient. I got to FBS after 26 seasons of HS/smaller college. Most folks can do better, but I stuck with it and got there. But, it ain't likely to happen for anybody in just a handful of seasons.
Good luck.
Robert
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If you believe you are good enough, then you'll have to get in front of the supervisor at a clinic.
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Thanks for the suggestions! For the record, my long term goal is to get to the NFL, but I don't believe that is possible without going through the NCAA ranks first. This is why I asked about college. I'll also talk to my HS commissioner (he is a former ACC Umpire, so he should know how the college world works). I'll see what clinics I can get to, and what sort of pre-season scrimmage opportunities are there over the next few years.
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I don't want to leave my current HS association, because of the family atmosphere and camaraderie, but this association has limited games available, and does not tolerate people working for other associations, except for the officials on loan to the MD group (those officials are DC members who don't have games that Friday, and who work with the approval of the DC commissioner and MD commissioner).
Hmm, that sounds like an association in serious jeopardy of being classified as an employer if they truly restrict opportunities like that. What do they do if you do join a MD or VA association?
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Thanks for the suggestions! For the record, my long term goal is to get to the NFL, but I don't believe that is possible without going through the NCAA ranks first.
Whoa. Even those with common second generation last names go through NCAA first.
Goals are nice. If I don't go up any further than I currently am, I will be content with it. I worked my donkey off to get here.
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Hmm, that sounds like an association in serious jeopardy of being classified as an employer if they truly restrict opportunities like that. What do they do if you do join a MD or VA association?
They would have a meeting of the board of directors, and vote on whether to suspend me or expel me from the association. Their bylaws say that I can't work for a competing organization within a 50 mile radius of Washington, DC.
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Is DC in better shape than the rest of the country when it comes to officiating numbers?
I think the first thing I would do is talk to someone to understand why you couldn't get 2/3 vote to keep your membership renewed in your old association. Also, talk with someone on why you are not getting more games in your current association. In a time where numbers are decreasing, there is something holding you back and it's important to understand what it is. Whatever it is could keep you from getting hired by a college coordinator. Be prepared that you may hear something that is unpleasant to hear.
The other thing I would do is continue to focus on the high school game. One thing that I have been told many times is the best way to advance to to be the best you can be at your current level
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They would have a meeting of the board of directors, and vote on whether to suspend me or expel me from the association. Their bylaws say that I can't work for a competing organization within a 50 mile radius of Washington, DC.
I get that no one is likely to challenge that, but that's a blatant and severe violation of independent contractor status. If the irs wanted to do so, they'd tag your association as an employer in a heartbeat.
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I get that no one is likely to challenge that, but that's a blatant and severe violation of independent contractor status. If the irs wanted to do so, they'd tag your association as an employer in a heartbeat.
There would have to be someone claiming they are misclassified as IC's to start the ball rolling with that (through NLRB first). IRS doesn't go looking for that willy nilly.
Anyway, that's not important - that association 50 mile rule is crap. It's probably due to guys taking games from other chapters, then the current chapter cannot fill the games they are assigned to.
This is one of the pitfalls of having many chapters and segmenting the officiating population. That's not good for officiating.
Also, it's a catch 22. To fix this, there would be one giant chapter. The bad thing in that case is that as you scale it, it's tougher to manage that many people and be an assigner for that many people.
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There would have to be someone claiming they are misclassified as IC's to start the ball rolling with that (through NLRB first). IRS doesn't go looking for that willy nilly.
Anyway, that's not important - that association 50 mile rule is crap. It's probably due to guys taking games from other chapters, then the current chapter cannot fill the games they are assigned to.
This is one of the pitfalls of having many chapters and segmenting the officiating population. That's not good for officiating.
Also, it's a catch 22. To fix this, there would be one giant chapter. The bad thing in that case is that as you scale it, it's tougher to manage that many people and be an assigner for that many people.
Indeed it would take someone challenging it, and it's unlikely someone would, but it could be also fixed with a structural change - decouple assigning from associations, but rather have an assigner paid by schools/conferences who can pick from whatever association he/she would like. That model may not work in large, more rural areas but in a dense metro area like DMV it should be very easy. That's how it is in our area, associations are for training and development solely - they play absolutely no formal role in assigning. It's commonplace and completely normal to be in multiple associations.
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Has anyone tried to move up to the college ranks with limited high school experience?
Are you a woman? This would be considered quite common these days.
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For the record, I am a man. A man with Asperger Syndrome, but nonetheless a man.
How exactly would I go about challenging the 50-mile rule, assuming I wanted to? I suspect that by the time the lawsuit would wind its way through the courts, I'd either already be expelled, or in college by some other means.
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A group of us were invited to work scrimmages in the SEC. Key word being, invited. In particular, I drove from Tampa to Gainesville to participate. No pay .....You learned that you were evaluated in each session.
One of our Association Members was invited to join the SEC, after being evaluated in a State Championship game. Unfortunately, maybe fortunately, I became a Regional Sales Manager with a lot of traveling involved and left officiating for 5 years.
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this 50-mile radius rule seems crazy.
Maybe I see the intent that you're getting games from another assn while your 'home' assn needed you for certain dates.
Conversely, if your 'home' assn isnt scheduling you for every single date available then I see no problem in taking games with any other assn no matter where they are.
to the point, if you want to work college,
1-be in the best physical shape possible.
2-go to a D3 or JC officials' camp this spring to maybe get your foot in the door AND hook up with JC or D3 or NAIA or D2 officials and work as many spring & fall scrimmages as you can handle until you do hook up with a JC or NAIA or D3 conference
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The guys working their way up in my area drive all over the Southeast to work intersquad scrimmages at college spring practices, many times maybe getting only a few snaps. Some of our current/past members who are now NCAA officials wrangle them an invite to work. The conference supervisors are usually moving around to observe and also the local official coordinator for the college/universities can pass along names of prospects he observes.
The key is getting to know someone that is a college official that can help get your foot in the door.
If you aren't getting games in your association, you either need to ask why or find another association. There is too big a shortage not to be getting games if you are competent.
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One of the key things that helps an official be considered for his/her first NCAA conference is an advocate in that conference. Not having one can make it almost impossible. If you were not renewed from one association and get limited games from your current association, it may be difficult for you to find an advocate. If you are only getting a couple games from your current association why would you worry about getting expelled if you join another association?
I admire you for trying to do with while diagnosed with Aspergers. I wish you nothing but the best of luck! I would focus on being the best high school official you can be and once you are working a full schedule regularly I would look at college opportunities. You are still welcome to attend clinics and offer to work scrimmages (we sometimes use HS officials to help fill holes for scrimmages when there are several on the same day). You will become a much better HS official from that experience. Set realistic expectations for your college aspirations and have fun working the level you are working!
Also, I love your profile quote. Our state association created this video a couple years ago using that title.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkyl1oBbpJY&t=13s
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As of yesterday, I have officially been hired by the Eastern Association of Intercollegiate Football Officials- Southern Chapter, to officiate college football at the Division III level. I was hired after working several spring scrimmages that the Southern Chapter used for tryouts/evaluations. I'm looking forward to my 1st college season. Shout out to those who made it happen!
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Congratulations and good luck!
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Thank you very much, TxBJ!
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That's great to hear and I wish you well. Did you ever find out why you didn't get the 2/3 vote? I ask because knowing what stopped them voting (be it about something on the field or off it). may help you to improve an area that could assist in your further progression.
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No, I haven't. I probably don't know whom to ask now, because so much water has flowed under the bridge since then, and a number of people who were relevant at the time have moved on.
Thanks for the support! I'll be ordering the CFO shirts, studying the rulebook, and preparing to take the test on Arbiter, in anticipation of my first intercollegiate football games. I'd also like to ask some of the college veterans on this forum about their experiences starting out, but it would probably make sense to do so in a different thread.
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No, I haven't. I probably don't know whom to ask now, because so much water has flowed under the bridge since then, and a number of people who were relevant at the time have moved on.
Thanks for the support! I'll be ordering the CFO shirts, studying the rulebook, and preparing to take the test on Arbiter, in anticipation of my first intercollegiate football games. I'd also like to ask some of the college veterans on this forum about their experiences starting out, but it would probably make sense to do so in a different thread.
1) Just work your game the way you know how. Don't feel you have to call the game differently because you're at another level. With that being said...
2) BE COACHABLE!! You'll probably be doing some things that can be improved upon (or flat out wrong) or your judgment can be adjusted a little. Be receptive to criticism. There's also adjustments specific to college football that you have to adjust to (like the substitution rule).
3) Ask your crewmates if there was anything they saw during the game that you could have done differently. Ask every game. Some guys are reluctant to give advice unsolicited, so if you don't ask, you won't receive any.
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Congrats and best of luck as you make the move to college ball. Take it seriously and give it the effort and dedication it deserves, but make sure you continue to enjoy what you're doing.
Bossman's advice is spot on. Be coachable and ask for feedback...but also make sure you know how to accept feedback. You're a rookie, so nobody is expecting you to be an expert on the rules yet (though becoming a great rules guy will make you a valuable asset on a crew) or to know the college mechanics inside and out, so if someone tells you that you're doing something wrong don't feel like you have to explain or defend what you did. In fact, your mouth can get you in far more trouble than just about anything you do on the field. The old saying about the reason we're born with one mouth and two ears is legit. I could tell you a story about a guy from around here who was hired and fired within a span of a couple months because he went off to a scrimmage and couldn't accept criticism from someone directly affiliated with the supervisor without defending himself and quoting his high school resume. Think that went over well?
Along with being new, and getting out to as many scrimmages and practices as possible, you'll get feedback (solicited and unsolicited) from a variety of sources. Some of it will inevitably be conflicting, and it's unlikely you'll know who to listen to right from the start. When you're in those spots, listen politely, say thank you, and figure it out later. Find a mentor or someone you can trust and can talk to later to figure out where the truth lies.
When the season rolls around, hopefully you'll be evaluated in some of your games and/or have your film graded. Don't be scared of downgrades or afraid to make mistakes. The move from HS to college is an adjustment, you might have to fine-tune your interpretation of what constitutes a quality hold, or dpi, etc...but study and learn from those occasions so that you don't make the same mistakes again (goes back to being coachable).
Lastly, before this turns into rambling nonsense, be honest with yourself when it comes to self-evaluation. What we do requires a certain amount of ego, and the best officials walk the fine line between confidence and arrogance. But when the season wraps up, you'll have the potential to make real improvements if you can candidly identify the areas you need to work on. If it's rules, get in the book or find a learning strategy that fits you best. If it's fitness, make the commitment to get in the gym. If it's judgement, watch more film. If it's communication, there are books on strategies...these are simplified solutions and of course it's not quite that easy, but if you make a plan and stick to it you'll be ahead of most others.
Enjoy the ride, make some relationships along the way, and when the opportunity comes along where you can help out someone who is in the position you're in now, do it.