RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: ElvisLives on August 28, 2019, 05:22:38 PM
-
A, 1/10, B-45, ready (25)
A, 1/10, B-40, snap (25) (ball didn't cross NZ, so previous spot enforcement for holding foul before COP)
A, try, B 1-1/2, snap (25) (no extra period, yet, so can't carry over penalty - can only go on try)
Game over, A wins
A, 1/10, B-40, ready
B, 1/10, B-2, snap
A, 1/10, A-40, ready (40) (classic A-B-A)
A, 1/10, B-20, ready, A22 DQd
-
Sometimes I'm a bit slow, but what are those the answer to? ???
-
Redding/Shaw weekly quiz. CFO web site.
Just my answers. No guarantee they are right.
Robert
-
Sometimes I'm a bit slow, but what are those the answer to? ???
This is like the old Johnny Carson bit where he'd hold the envelope up to his head. haha.
-
This is like the old Johnny Carson bit where he'd hold the envelope up to his head. haha.
Yes, the answers questions were are stored in a jar at Funk & Wagnall's...
-
I agree except for #1
A, 1/10, B-45, ready (25)
"1. A 2/20, A-30. Midway through the first quarter A32 receives a handoff from A12 on the A-22. He is
grabbed by the facemask at the A-26 where he fumbles the ball. Teammate A44 recovers on the A-28
and advances to the A-40 where runs out of bounds."
B's foul occurs during A32's running play. The related run ends in the backfield; the basic spot is the previous spot, not the end of A44's subsequent run. I have 1/10 @ A-45, not B-45.
-
I agree except for #1
"1. A 2/20, A-30. Midway through the first quarter A32 receives a handoff from A12 on the A-22. He is
grabbed by the facemask at the A-26 where he fumbles the ball. Teammate A44 recovers on the A-28
and advances to the A-40 where runs out of bounds."
B's foul occurs during A32's running play. The related run ends in the backfield; the basic spot is the previous spot, not the end of A44's subsequent run. I have 1/10 @ A-45, not B-45.
Dang. I missed one. Yeah, A-45, not B-45. And that, obviously, was the point of the question. Slow down. Analyze ALL the facts, not just the routine.
Thanks for the correction.
Robert
-
Collectively (kinda like a crew) we got 'em all right.
-
Even better than the official answers, which didn't mention the play clock wrinkles.
-
Round 2
My answers:
1. q\a, 1/19 A-11, ready (25)
2. B, 1/10, B-10, snap (25) - not a KOB foul
3. A, K/O, A-35, game clock per kickoff rules (25)
4. B, 1/10, B-30, snap (25)
5. A, 1/10, A-45, ready (25)
6. B, 1/10, B-5, ready (25)
7. A, 2/12, A-48, (snap, 40)
8. A, 1/10, B-14, snap (40)
How'm I doing?
Robert
-
Round 2
My answers:
1. q\a, 1/19 "The offense that shall not be named", ready (25)
2. B, 1/10, B-10, snap (25) - not a KOB foul
3. A, K/O, A-35, game clock per kickoff rules (25)
4. B, 1/10, B-30, snap (25)
5. A, 1/10, A-45, ready (25)
6. B, 1/10, B-5, ready (25)
7. A, 2/12, A-48, (snap, 40)
8. A, 1/10, B-14, snap (40)
How'm I doing?
Robert
2. 40 sec PC
5. A, 2/15, A-20, Ready (25)
-
10-4 on the corrections to my answers. Too big of a hurry, in both cases.
But - and this is a serious concern - the answer that show for my #1 answer is not at all what I wrote. The "q/a" part - what is that? Where did that come from? The "The offense that shall not be named" part - I have no clue what that is or where that came from. I didn't write either of those things. At least not consciously.
Any ideas?
Robert
-
10-4 on the corrections to my answers. Too big of a hurry, in both cases.
But - and this is a serious concern - the answer that show for my #1 answer is not at all what I wrote. The "q/a" part - what is that? Where did that come from? The "The offense that shall not be named" part - I have no clue what that is or where that came from. I didn't write either of those things. At least not consciously.
Any ideas?
Robert
I checked the list of censored words and nothing is translating to "q/a" so I'm not sure where that came from. The "The offense that shall not be named" was in reference to the A - 11 offense that came out several years ago. I have removed that censor so we shouldn't see that anymore.
-
No. 3....Isn't this a 1 point safety?
-
No. 3....Isn't this a 1 point safety?
Yes, 1 point for Team A, and then the kickoff as stated. Again, I swear I included the safety in my answer, but, maybe not.
Robert
-
Round 2
My answers:
1. q\a, 1/19 A-11, ready (25)
2. B, 1/10, B-10, snap (25) - not a KOB foul
3. A, K/O, A-35, game clock per kickoff rules (25)
4. B, 1/10, B-30, snap (25)
5. A, 1/10, A-45, ready (25)
6. B, 1/10, B-5, ready (25)
7. A, 2/12, A-48, (snap, 40)
8. A, 1/10, B-14, snap (40)
How'm I doing?
Robert
#6. Won't the GC start on the snap due to the turnover on downs?
-
#6. Won't the GC start on the snap due to the turnover on downs?
As Ronald Reagan once said, "Well, there you go again."
Of course. The award of a new series to Team B will dictate that the clock will start on the snap. I know what I was thinking. I was thinking that the play clock will start on the RFP signal. True. But the game clock will start on the snap, and that is what that part of the answer is supposed to address.
Y'all have great games this evening/weekend.
Robert
-
#4 why isn’t this an illegal formation? 7-1-4-a-5-b says eligible numbered players who are exceptions to the numbering rule must not be at the end of the line. We have 22 and 30 as the ends. One of them is the exception. What am I missing?
-
#4 why isn’t this an illegal formation? 7-1-4-a-5-b says eligible numbered players who are exceptions to the numbering rule must not be at the end of the line. We have 22 and 30 as the ends. One of them is the exception. What am I missing?
There actually isn't enough information provided, but, we are supposed to know what they mean. ;) The down and distance are reasonable for a SKF, but the description of the team A players is incomplete. While we are told there are four (4) players in the backfield, we don't know if there is a back at least 10 yards behind the NZ, or a potential holder and potential place kicker least 7 yards behind the NZ, and that there is no player in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap. But, on the assumption (careful) that they mean there is a back that is 10 yards behind the NZ, and no one ready to take a hand-to-hand snap, then we can rule that this is a scrimmage kick formation.
On that basis, Team A is in a Scrimmage Kick formation, which allows them to have exceptions to mandatory numbering (players wearing numbers other than 50-79 located on the line and between the ends, and less than 5 linemen numbered 50-79). Even if they only have 6 total players on the line, they don't have to have 5 numbered 50-79. So, the fact that they have (left-to-right) 22, 50, 55, 61, 73 and 30 on the line, means that they actually do not have any exceptions to mandatory numbering. The two players on the ends are eligible (by position and number). When they snap the ball from this formation, everything is legal, although they are handicapped with only 10 players on the field.
So, no foul. When the ball goes OB, the ball belongs to B at that spot, 1/10. Play clock at 25 and starts on the RFP, and game clock starts on the snap.
Robert
-
Okay, wow, this is something I'd never fully grasped:
I'd always thought the term "numbering exception" meant three things:
1. Ruleswise, this player is treated as if his number is 50-79.
2. Additionally, this player may not be on the end of the line when the snap finally happens.
3. This player counts toward the minimum of 5 ineligibly numbered linemen.
I now understand that third point to be FALSE. Instead, in a scrimmage kick formation, there IS no minimum number of ineligibly numbered linemen and/or numbering exceptions.
Correct?
-
Okay, wow, this is something I'd never fully grasped:
I'd always thought the term "numbering exception" meant three things:
1. Ruleswise, this player is treated as if his number is 50-79.
2. Additionally, this player may not be on the end of the line when the snap finally happens.
3. This player counts toward the minimum of 5 ineligibly numbered linemen.
I now understand that third point to be FALSE. Instead, in a scrimmage kick formation, there IS no minimum number of ineligibly numbered linemen and/or numbering exceptions.
Correct?
That is correct.
Robert
-
So why is it so weirdly written?
In scrimmage kick formation, A has no requirement as to numbering other then the ends have to be eligible numbered.
That’s it, right?
-
So why is it so weirdly written?
In scrimmage kick formation, A has no requirement as to numbering other then the ends have to be eligible numbered.
That’s it, right?
No. The ends do not have to have eligible numbers. In a SKF, if Team A has fewer than 5 linemen wearing numbers 50-79, then any interior linemen wearing numbers other than 50-79 are considered “exceptions” to mandatory numbering. A 10-player SKF numbering scheme like this is legal:
55 88 87 86 85 66
44 33
22
11
It is just that the ends won’t be eligible. Once the formation is established, those guys wearing eligible numbers between the ends must NOT shift to the backfield, or to an end position.
An SKF is established when the snapper has addressed the ball (thus, becoming the snapper), and all players of Team A have stopped for one second.
“Why does this rule exist?” you might ask. Before the early 70’s, speedier players would wear slip-over vests with numbers 50-79 to change their numbers to ineligible numbers, so they could take positions on the interior line, on punt plays, in particular. But, they were hard to slip on, and, when they were in a hurry, they’d just slip them over their heads, and just hang from their necks, with numbers unreadable.
That was a cosmetic issue that the NCAA wanted to fix. So, the NCAA got rid of the slip-over vests, and, for a few years, such players desiring to be interior linemen would ‘report’ to the umpire. That didn’t work very well, so they came up with the scrimmage kick formation with numbering exceptions.
In exchange for not having to change numbers, Team A agrees to NOT try anything tricky to confuse the opponent, and agrees that all ‘exceptions’ to mandatory numbering will be on the line and between the ends at the snap.
Just remember: if they have 5 linemen numbered 59-79 anywhere on the line, then there are no ‘exceptions,’ and they may shift all they want (as long as they snap with at least 5 linemen numbered 59-79).
Robert
-
1. A, 1/24, A-46, ready, 25 (ready). Illegal BBW - back toward ball. 15 yards, spot of the foul, repeat down.
2. A, 1/10, B-15, ready, 25 (ready). DOF, 5 yards, previous spot, yardage yields first down. Team B is NOT awarded a first down, and outside of 2 minutes in half, so game clock starts on RFP.
3. B, 1/10, A-25, no clock, 25 (ready). Penalty for clipping is declined by rule, no score, advance to second possession series of extra period.
4. A, 1/10, 50, ready, 25 (ready) . RPS penalty is added to the dead-ball spot, then penalty for dead-ball UNS foul enforced, with 1/10 where penalty leaves the ball.
5. B, 1/10, B-25, snap, 40 starts on dead ball. No foul for returning inbounds by B. Invalid signal causes ball to become dead when caught. Completed catch inside B-25 results in awarding Team B first down at B-25.
6. B, Try, A-3, no clock, 40 starts on dead ball. No foul for BSB.
7. B, 1/10, B-25, snap, 40 starts on dead ball. No foul if fair catch is completed.
8. A (home), 1/10, B-40, no clock, 25 (ready). Dead-ball UNS enforced at succeeding spot for 5th Extra Period.
What did I get wrong?
Robert
-
1. A, 1/24, A-46, ready, 25 (ready). Illegal BBW - back toward ball. 15 yards, spot of the foul, repeat down.
2. A, 1/10, B-15, ready, 25 (ready). DOF, 5 yards, previous spot, yardage yields first down. Team B is NOT awarded a first down, and outside of 2 minutes in half, so game clock starts on RFP.
3. B, 1/10, A-25, no clock, 25 (ready). Penalty for clipping is declined by rule, no score, advance to second possession series of extra period.
4. A, 1/10, 50, ready, 25 (ready) . RPS penalty is added to the dead-ball spot, then penalty for dead-ball UNS foul enforced, with 1/10 where penalty leaves the ball.
5. B, 1/10, B-25, snap, 40 starts on dead ball. No foul for returning inbounds by B. Invalid signal causes ball to become dead when caught. Completed catch inside B-25 results in awarding Team B first down at B-25.
6. B, Try, A-3, no clock, 40 starts on dead ball. No foul for BSB.
7. B, 1/10, B-25, snap, 40 starts on dead ball. No foul if fair catch is completed.
8. A (home), 1/10, B-40, no clock, 25 (ready). Dead-ball UNS enforced at succeeding spot for 5th Extra Period.
What did I get wrong?
Robert
On #8 it should be 1 play from the B-18. New OT rule.
-
On #8 it should be 1 play from the B-18. New OT rule.
Ah, yes. 5th Extra Period. Of course. Hope no one ever gets there.
-
1. A, 1/24, A-46, ready, 25 (ready). Illegal BBW - back toward ball. 15 yards, spot of the foul, repeat down.
2. A, 1/10, B-15, ready, 25 (ready). DOF, 5 yards, previous spot, yardage yields first down. Team B is NOT awarded a first down, and outside of 2 minutes in half, so game clock starts on RFP.
3. B, 1/10, A-25, no clock, 25 (ready). Penalty for clipping is declined by rule, no score, advance to second possession series of extra period.
4. A, 1/10, 50, ready, 25 (ready) . RPS penalty is added to the dead-ball spot, then penalty for dead-ball UNS foul enforced, with 1/10 where penalty leaves the ball.
A, 1/10, A-45. Don't know where I got 50.
5. B, 1/10, B-25, snap, 40 starts on dead ball. No foul for returning inbounds by B. Invalid signal causes ball to become dead when caught. Completed catch inside B-25 results in awarding Team B first down at B-25.
Redding left off the fact that this is a 40-second play clock. That's important.
6. B, Try, A-3, no clock, 40 starts on dead ball. No foul for BSB.
Until the ball is ready for play for the next down, the team designations should stay the same, that's why I used B for the new offense, and A for the new defense.
7. B, 1/10, B-25, snap, 40 starts on dead ball. No foul if fair catch is completed.
Again, Redding left off the fact that this is a 40-second play clock. That's important.
8. A (home), 1/10, B-40, no clock, 25 (ready). Dead-ball UNS enforced at succeeding spot for 5th Extra Period.
Failed to recognize 5th extra period, so A, Try, B-18 (after penalty), no clock, 25 (ready)
What did I get wrong?
Robert
These are good exercises.
Robert