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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: CalhounLJ on February 12, 2020, 11:32:37 AM

Title: Well, I'm back
Post by: CalhounLJ on February 12, 2020, 11:32:37 AM
Never say never I guess. I missed you guys.
Question - If you were going to compile a list of fundamentals supplemental to those in the book, what would you include? My assignor is trying to assemble a list of common principles of football to add to that list.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 12, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Welcome back, Calhoun, it's enjoyable to hear from you again. With every rule change the Editorial Committee reviews the Football Fundamentals to see if any should be added or deleted. I feel the current listing is quite inclusive, but if your assigner wishes, he can submit his list to his state rules rep who can forward his suggestions on to NFHS for consideration.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: CalhounLJ on February 12, 2020, 06:42:41 PM
Thanks Ralph. I think I used the wrong word. I’m thinking more along the lines of idioms. We are assembling an officials manual for our association with fundamentals mechanics and philosophies. We would like to include a section of idioms used to help remember basic applications. For example, “K can recover a kick but not advance it.” Those things are basic truths every official should know. We want something to give the new guys when they sign up.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: HLinNC on February 12, 2020, 07:37:50 PM
The whistle doesn't stop play, its already dead.

See leather.

One incomplete, we're all incomplete.

A-B-A ready for play
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: CalhounLJ on February 13, 2020, 07:08:06 AM
Perfect.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: bossman72 on February 13, 2020, 08:43:10 AM
"A touchdown is forever".  (Meaning, it's hard to take one off the board once you throw your hands up).
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: TampaSteve on February 13, 2020, 08:49:47 AM
Aint a passer till you pass it.
Aint a kicker til you kick it.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: ncwingman on February 13, 2020, 09:13:34 AM
"A touchdown is forever".  (Meaning, it's hard to take one off the board once you throw your hands up).

I like it. I might modify it slightly to "Points are forever"

If you go up quickly with a safety signal on the other goal line, oh you better be 100% correct. Nothing wrong with verifying with another official before awarding 2 points.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: CalhounLJ on February 13, 2020, 09:14:30 AM
Exactly what I need. Thanks guys. keep them coming
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: ncwingman on February 13, 2020, 09:14:57 AM
See what you call.

Call what you see.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: bjfb on February 13, 2020, 10:59:01 AM
A blown call is here to stay, a no call will go away.

A kick, is a kick, is a kick.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: toma on February 13, 2020, 11:47:45 AM
Sh_t Happens on Kicks
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: CalhounLJ on February 13, 2020, 12:13:21 PM
Sh_t Happens on Kicks
POD  :patrioticon:
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: bossman72 on February 13, 2020, 02:07:57 PM
A kick, is a kick, is a kick.

...until it's possessed or becomes dead by rule.  We know what you meant, but the newbs might not.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: AlUpstateNY on February 13, 2020, 02:35:56 PM
...until it's possessed or becomes dead by rule.  We know what you meant, but the newbs might not.

It doesn't matter how many times it's touched, or by whom, or in what direction, until it's possessed (or becomes dead by rule) it's still a kick.

No matter how hard you suck on a whistle, you won't get the TWEET back.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: centexsports on February 13, 2020, 03:20:29 PM
Before we break for our opening kickoff positions we break with:

See the Ball!

Conversely:

Don't be a ball watcher.

When a play ain't pretty but is not illegal, remember -

It's like drinking out of a clean slop jar.  It don't look right but it's OK.

And my favorite:  I tell the captains after the coin toss, if they have to kick, just let me know if they want Chicken or No Chicken. 

Chicken = KFC (kick from the clock)
No Chicken = KTC (kick fro the clock)

If you are wondering, the last two came from my mentor in Mississippi who was a SEC official.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: Etref on February 13, 2020, 04:13:23 PM

For goal line

A plane going in

A line coming out
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: HLinNC on February 13, 2020, 05:33:36 PM
My RSO likes to tell us "I don't get calls about flags you didn't throw."
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 14, 2020, 08:07:33 AM
SEE IT  :o.....THINK IT  ???.....CALL IT  ^flag ^good ^no ^TD

Don't rush your calls... ^talk chat with a crewmate before you make your call  ^talk

U.S. JUSTICE SYSTEM = GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT  P_S P_S P_S P_S P_S
FOOTBALL FOUL SYSTEM = GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT  ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag

See it all before you call...if you aren't sure don't  ^flag
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: CalhounLJ on February 14, 2020, 09:05:09 AM
My RSO likes to tell us "I don't get calls about flags you didn't throw."

I understand the concept behind the statement, but that’s not completely true. Ask the Saints. We better throw that obvious flag, because if we don’t, somebody will get a call.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: dammitbobby on February 14, 2020, 09:15:37 AM
Any chance I could get a copy of that compiled list you're working on?
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: PABJNR on February 14, 2020, 11:46:05 AM
In one of the NFHS manuals there is a list of axioms such as if in doubt fumble or forward pass rule forward pass, in or OOB rule OOB. I’ll see if I can find it and post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: PABJNR on February 14, 2020, 11:47:41 AM
Buy my favorite axiom is:

You have to see everything you call, but you don’t have to call everything you see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: riffraft on February 14, 2020, 01:57:28 PM

And my favorite:  I tell the captains after the coin toss, if they have to kick, just let me know if they want Chicken or No Chicken. 

Chicken = KFC (kick from the clock)
No Chicken = KTC (kick fro the clock)

If you are wondering, the last two came from my mentor in Mississippi who was a SEC official.

Thought it might an Ohio thing, I moved out to Arizona several years ago and when I used that my fellow officials looked at me like I was from Mars.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: ncwingman on February 14, 2020, 02:10:07 PM
Thought it might an Ohio thing, I moved out to Arizona several years ago and when I used that my fellow officials looked at me like I was from Mars.

The KFC thing is common in my area too (not the "no chicken" side because nobody ever does), but it's more of an in-joke amongst the officials. If we ever said that to a coach or captain, they'd look at us like we had two heads.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: PABJNR on February 14, 2020, 03:45:01 PM
I found the 'Guides for when in question", it on page 81 of the 2018 NFHS game officials manual.  Because of copyrights etc, I wont upload the section, but it is a good resource for officials to use.
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 17, 2020, 12:44:15 PM
Some other guidelines you may choose to use......

(1) Was the kick caught and fumbled or muffed  ??? ?   If you would have ruled it complete if a forward pass = catch and fumble. If not = muff. If unsure, hold your whistle, it's much easier to adjust the clock, if it is then determined to be a muff than to become an eager tweeter if not.

(2) If A fumbles near its goal line and B muffs ball into the end zone, if the fumble had a chance of rolling into the EZ without the muff, rule safety if recovered by A in there. If fumble was bouncing away form EZ, B's muff would now add a new force.

(3) If teammate(s) are aiding the runner, rule his forward progress has stopped.

To flag  ^flag or not to  ^no. I'll respond to calls from coaches on the rules, no on judgement; however, I still get several on foul calls every year. 90% of those are on flags the coach doesn't think should have been thrown and 10 % are on flags they think should have been thrown. It's much easier to explain that the official was probably  screened or didn't see the full play, then to explain why he saw something that didn't appear to happen.

 :sTiR: tR:oLl ^flag hEaDbAnG pi1eOn :puke: 
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: bama_stripes on February 17, 2020, 05:38:00 PM

(2) If A fumbles near its goal line and B muffs ball into the end zone, if the fumble had a chance of rolling into the EZ without the muff, rule safety if recovered by A in there. If fumble was bouncing away form EZ,  A’s B’s muff would now add a new force.

FIFY
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 18, 2020, 08:57:58 AM
FIFY
Thanks, 'Bama, for spotting the error. Being left-handed, I sometimes get things bass ackwards. I still have a concern , when signaling whining the clock, if I should crank as if I was on the inside looking out (counter-clockwise) or on the outside looking in (clockwise). :-X ::) :P ??? 8] :o :(
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: CalhounLJ on February 18, 2020, 09:08:22 AM
ok, so now I won't be able to sleep at night. Can you even wind a clock counterclockwise?  ^flag pHiNzuP
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 18, 2020, 10:43:26 AM
ok, so now I won't be able to sleep at night. Can you even wind a clock counterclockwise?  ^flag pHiNzuP
We do turn it counter-clockwise on the year's longest day.  ;D
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: ncwingman on February 18, 2020, 01:52:22 PM
Thanks, 'Bama, for spotting the error. Being left-handed, I sometimes get things bass ackwards. I still have a concern , when signaling whining the clock, if I should crank as if I was on the inside looking out (counter-clockwise) or on the outside looking in (clockwise). :-X ::) :P ??? 8] :o :(

I've run WH at a few peewee games, since I keep my finger whistle on my right hand, I'll give S1 and S2 with my left. If I'm supposed to do it clockwise with the right, would that be counterclockwise with the left? If I do it the wrong way, am I signaling that the clock should count *up*?
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: KWH on February 18, 2020, 02:39:08 PM
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 24, 2020, 12:55:56 PM
I've run WH at a few peewee games, since I keep my finger whistle on my right hand, I'll give S1 and S2 with my left. If I'm supposed to do it clockwise with the right, would that be counterclockwise with the left? If I do it the wrong way, am I signaling that the clock should count *up*?
Only in ice-hockey  :)
Title: Re: Well, I'm back
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 24, 2020, 12:58:13 PM
  •   SEE everything you CALL, but;
  •   Don't CALL everything you SEE.
If you can't SEE anything, CALL for another beer  eAt& eAt& eAt& eAt& eAt& (5-man crew)