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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: sczeebra on April 15, 2020, 06:02:29 AM
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I sure do miss not being able to begin our association meetings which lead up to our season here in South Carolina. The annual study groups are geared toward the upcoming football season which kicks off with the yearly state meeting and test examination. I'll miss again the 100 question tests brought forth from our now retired and former league commissioner Bruce Hulion. In honor of Mr. Hulion I would like to post question #100 from the 2018 exam, (his last question if you will), for discussion.
Team K is punting from its own 40. K has 12 players in the formation, but this is not detected by the game officials until after the snap. During the kick substitute, R1, runs onto the field but does not participate.
I have altered my post as not to give the multiple choice answers,(like we had on the test) and let anyone here mull it over.
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We have an illegal participation foul by K and a non-player illegal substitution foul by R. The non-player foul is not paired with the illegal participation foul to create a double foul. Both fouls can be penalized and the down replayed.
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We have an illegal participation foul by K and a non-player illegal substitution foul by R. The non-player foul is not paired with the illegal participation foul to create a double foul. Both fouls can be penalized and the down replayed.
bjfb:
Do you have a rule reference?
I believe it may be a double foul. (9-8-1i; 9-8-1i Penalty)
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2-16-2-a: Double foul- one or more live ball fouls (other than non player or unsportsmanlike) are committed by each team at such time that the penalties offset.
Unsportsmanlike and nonplayer fouls are excluded by definition to have a double foul.
Section 8 of rule 9: Noncontact Unsportsmanlike Contact by Nonplayers is about unsportsmanlike fouls that can be committed by a nonplayer.
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I don't believe these fouls qualify as a doulbe foul and each is enforced. Another question in do they offset?
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So if R catches the ball at their own 20 and returns it to K's 25, they will decline K's foul and take the result of the play and have their foul enforced from the succeeding spot. 1st and 10 from K's 30. No PSK. Do we all agree?
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So if R catches the ball at their own 20 and returns it to K's 25, they will decline K's foul and take the result of the play and have their foul enforced from the succeeding spot. 1st and 10 from K's 30. No PSK. Do we all agree?
Yes, the non-player foul on B is to be treated as a dead ball foul. I believe signal #22 should be preceded by signal # 27, indicating that it was a non-contact foul.
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In the play presented, the Unsportsmanlike signal #27 is not necessary.
Rule reference 3-7-6: During a down, a replaced player or substitute who enters the field, but does not participate, constitutes illegal substitution.
Penalty Signal for article 6 is #22.
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I don't believe these fouls qualify as a doulbe foul and each is enforced. Another question in do they offset?
Yes, the non-player foul on B is to be treated as a dead ball foul. I believe signal #22 should be preceded by signal # 27, indicating that it was a non-contact foul.
Was not the "tack-on rule" for fouls by K during a scrimmage kick in place in 2018? Enforce both fouls from the succeeding spot ... 1sk K's foul then R's foul.
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No tack-on. Illegal sub and participation that are fouls at the snap are not included.
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No tack-on. Illegal sub and participation that are fouls at the snap are not included.
Are you sure? 10-4-2 Exception seems to imply they are included in the "tack-on."
10-4-2 . . . The basic spot is the previous spot:
a. For a foul which occurs simultaneously with the snap or free kick.
b. For a foul which occurs during a loose ball play, as defined in 10-3-1. See 10-5-5 for special enforcement on roughing the passer. See 10-5-1b for special enforcement on kick-catching interference.
c. For a foul which occurs during a down in which a legal kick occurs and an inadvertent whistle ends the down prior to possession by either team.
EXCEPTION: The basic spot may, at the option of the offended team, be the succeeding spot for fouls by K during a free or scrimmage kick down (other than kick catch interference) prior to the end of the kick when K will not be next to put the ball in play.
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Your right Ump33, I was thinking about PSK restrictions.
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This situation is excluded from being a Double Foul as the Foul by R1 was a non-player foul (10-2-1)
The first foul, by K, is Illegal Participation (9-6-4c) (S28)
The second foul, by R, is Illegal Substitution (3-7-6)
So far...for the purpose of penalty enforcement,
K has committed a live ball foul (9-6-4c)
R committed a dead ball foul (3-7-6, 10-4-5c)
However, not to be a party pooper but I have four questions before I can make a ruling:
1) Were there any additional penalties?
2) How did the kick end?
3) How did the play end?
4) Where did the play end?