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Non-Officiating => Non-Officiating Discussion => Topic started by: Etref on May 11, 2020, 03:46:25 PM
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Just saw a report where Fauci says football is the perfect way to spread the disease via contact. His solution is everyone should be tested either night before or on game day. Positive you sit, negative you can play.
Problem is that is a heck of a cost. I can see maybe the NFL does and maybe, just maybe FCS.
But lower level NCAA and high school, no way!
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What happens if they don't come up with a working vaccine?
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What happens if they don't come up with a working vaccine?
With the average age of our high school officials, I see a lot of guys not coming back this year for fear of getting this virus. Even if the UIL says we will play the games, there probably will not be enough officials willing to run a very high risk of being exposed to cover all of the games. This is going to be a very interesting fall.
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I agree. I’m an official over 50, and I will not referee this fall. I've got to touch the ball every play with sweat on it, dig in a pile for a ball - touching all sweat covered players... nope. Plus if I’m wearing a mask, I can see less of the field. I already have a hard time seeing down low in the supermarket with a mask on, and my glasses fog up. And no fans? It won’t be fun anymore. Nope.... I’ll sit out this year.
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I am struggling. Just turned 66 and in the last five years have had both knees replaced so I could continue calling. No leg or knee pain and they feel great. I have a good crew and love working with them. I have been going to work every day (retiring at the end of May) and have been shopping in multiple locations with no mask. Not that concerned about casual contact but 22 players every play with 1 to 50 on the sideline (yes I called an eleven man game last year that had 1 sub), ten or more coaches on the sideline, chain crews and dressing in a JV locker that smells of (well you know) doesn't compute. I have paid both state and local dues but my wife is very, very against me calling.
What is everybody else thinking?
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I will likely be willing to officiate and risk infection if there is football. It would have to be without a mask though as it would be very limiting for effective breathing and whistle management would be difficult. I completely understand those who feel differently though. I'm just hoping beyond hope we are in a context where we can play football in the Fall with fans in the stands and manage the risks similar to other illnesses albeit with a lot more attention and focus.
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I will be 57 in July. Two years ago I told myself I hoped to get 10 more years in. Last September I tore the meniscus in my left knee (frankly I think it was eroding for a long time) so I lost half the season. I had it scoped in November. PT had just cleared me just before the virus shutdown hit.
I worked 28 1/2 years as a parole officer so I spent a lot of time going into homes and being around not the most healthy of folks to begin with. I've faced things that scared me worse than this does.
If they play, I'll be there. My football biological clock is ticking...
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Also if testing is to be done, what about the officials?
How many HS chapters can replace 4-5 game day officials should it be needed?
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Also if testing is to be done, what about the officials?
How many HS chapters can replace 4-5 game day officials should it be needed?
Not us. We scrape each year just to fill each game. If no vaccine proves dependable then this may be something everyone would need to decide if you just deal with it. The 24 hrs newscycle doesn't help either. I'd just assume to put this on the backburner and not even think about it.
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I am 60yo, but there is nothing except being physically incapable that will keep me off the field.
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Also if testing is to be done, what about the officials?
How many HS chapters can replace 4-5 game day officials should it be needed?
Just had another bad thought! What about sub varsity. Might mean multiple tests per week for coaches and officials
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Here's a pretty good interview with the SEC Commissioner on the possibility of fall football. I'd like to see some of the ideas the schools and/or conferences are coming with as alternatives.
https://www.si.com/college/tmg/tony-barnhart/greg-sankey
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New uniforms proposed for all officials in all sports.
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Here's a pretty good interview with the SEC Commissioner on the possibility of fall football. I'd like to see some of the ideas the schools and/or conferences are coming with as alternatives.
https://www.si.com/college/tmg/tony-barnhart/greg-sankey
I agree with the commish.....ain't no school = ain't no football. IMHO, there are too many "IFs" to even guess what the Fall will entail. As was mentioned in the article, we have a window to make plans but that window is slowly closing. I assume colleges will need to make plans no later than early July, while our high schools would have a little longer. Youth safety is the most important part of high school football and decisions will probably be made with that in mind. If games are to be played, I would believe that the air has cleared enough on our pandemic so that it safe for all. I've been asked : "Should officials wear masks during the game ??? ?" and "Should the crew all drive their own cars to the game to preserve 'social distancing' ??? ??" My answer to both was : "If the pandemic climate is then what it is today, there will not be high school football.
MY RICH UNCLE ONCE TOLD ME : "RALPHIE, YOUR HEALTH WILL ALWAYS BE YOUR MOST IMPORTANT ASSET!"
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I agree with the commish.....ain't no school = ain't no football. IMHO, there are too many "IFs" to even guess what the Fall will entail. As was mentioned in the article, we have a window to make plans but that window is slowly closing. I assume colleges will need to make plans no later than early July, while our high schools would have a little longer. Youth safety is the most important part of high school football and decisions will probably be made with that in mind. If games are to be played, I would believe that the air has cleared enough on our pandemic so that it safe for all. I've been asked : "Should officials wear masks during the game ??? ?" and "Should the crew all drive their own cars to the game to preserve 'social distancing' ??? ??" My answer to both was : "If the pandemic climate is then what it is today, there will not be high school football.
MY RICH UNCLE ONCE TOLD ME : "RALPHIE, YOUR HEALTH WILL ALWAYS BE YOUR MOST IMPORTANT ASSET!"
How do officials wear masks? I don't see how that could work. There seems to be no better breeding ground for spreading this virus than maybe rest homes and cruise ships. We see spit, sweat, blood in every game we officiate. It gets all over the ball. We touch the ball every play then put a whistle in our mouths with our hands. I guess we will all have to make the choice to be infected or not officiate. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but that seems to be our choices right now.
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How do officials wear masks? I don't see how that could work. There seems to be no better breeding ground for spreading this virus than maybe rest homes and cruise ships. We see spit, sweat, blood in every game we officiate. It gets all over the ball. We touch the ball every play then put a whistle in our mouths with our hands. I guess we will all have to make the choice to be infected or not officiate. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but that seems to be our choices right now.
The decision to suspend football should be based on real empirical data that clearly shows a grave danger if practices and games are allowed to happen. I'm all in favor of suspending such activities when the real, substantiated data shows a clear and present danger to the participants (teams and/or spectators). Despite what some media outlets would have you believe, that data ain't there. As much as some folks - mostly politicians - want to suspend all things social and entertaining, more out of politics than real concern for safety, we should not allow unjustified fear to control our lives. Until, and unless, we have the foreboding data mentioned, I, for one am ready to get back to action, and will gladly accept responsibility for myself. I would go today. But, certainly, we should be ready by September.
The national focus regarding the health crisis should be on testing; having medical professionals prepared to deal with these diseases (they are); and developing vaccines. Medical professionals will tell you that no vaccine will be effective for everyone. But, multiple vaccines can get the vast, vast majority of society protected - when they become available. C'mon America - let's be the great country we are, and get 'er done!
But let's get back to living life.
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Congratulations Elvis, I was not aware that you got your Medical Degree.
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Congratulations Elvis, I was not aware that you got your Medical Degree.
I do have one and agree with Elvis. We have worked on a flu vaccine since 1944 and still don't have one that is 100% effective. One needs to look at the data and not to those who may be skewing it to suit their agenda. The current increase in cases appears to be more a function of increased testing rather than absolute cases. Also, the death rates need to be more closely monitored as anyone who dies that is COVID positive is listed as a COVID death regardless of the main cause. Insurance pays 100% for them.
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Congratulations Elvis, I was not aware that you got your Medical Degree.
^flag
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I do have one and agree with Elvis. We have worked on a flu vaccine since 1944 and still don't have one that is 100% effective. One needs to look at the data and not to those who may be skewing it to suit their agenda. The current increase in cases appears to be more a function of increased testing rather than absolute cases. Also, the death rates need to be more closely monitored as anyone who dies that is COVID positive is listed as a COVID death regardless of the main cause. Insurance pays 100% for them.
:thumbup
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You can only run from death for so long. Eventually it will catch up to you. Until then, I will live my life to the fullest and do so without fear. About 23 years ago I got a flu vaccination and ended up getting a bad case of the flu to the point I thought I was dying. I haven't gotten the shot since then and I've been exposed many times and have not became infected since. Perhaps the vaccine I got was enough to last a lifetime. While in the Marines I was asked if I wanted to volunteer to an aids vaccine and I politely declined after remembering my flu experience.
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Youth safety is the most important part of high school football and decisions will probably be made with that in mind.
I have long been an advocate of swapping football and baseball seasons in hot weather climes for that very reason. This pandemic gives those states a unique opportunity to try this out.
I’m not waiting with bated breath, however.
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I am not a physician. However common sense says that a football field would be a great place for officials and/or participants to pick up COVID. The only way to assure safety right now is a vaccine or an extensive testing program. If there is a testing program I will feel comfortable going back on the field and will accept the risk.
If there is not a program in place, I will probably still go back because I love the game and officiating so much. I will also assume the risk. I hope The players or me (or someone in my family if I bring it home to them- then I will feel guilty for the rest of my life) do not die because of the short sightedness of some.
Is it worth the risk, I honestly do not know. I do know that I am too emotionally involved to make an unbiased decision or even to have an unbiased opinion on the topic.
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I'm definitely torn on this. As people have said, the football field is a great place to spread illnesses, I tend to get some sort of cold or other minor respiratory thing at some point each season though that has been reduced the last two years due to being more careful about handwashing at halftime and after games and how I handle my whistle with my hands. I expect that I will get COVID at some point, I think most of us will, but personally I'd much rather delay that until effective therapeutics have been found. Everyday of our lives we make decisions based on risks vs rewards for everything we do and I am not one who, as some people like to say right now, "lives in fear" (as an example I have gone scuba diving with large sharks and visited White Island in New Zealand a few months before the tragic eruption there while fully knowing the risks). If this was just about the chance of me getting it, I'd definitely choose to officiate though you better believe that the coaches are going to be kept back off the sideline and they can talk to me from a distance. But it isn't just about me, if I get infected then I run the risk of passing it on to other people when I do things like go get gas or go to the grocery store; this is especially true if I end up being asymptomatic and thus not knowing I have it. People with health problems can take all the precautions in the world but have to go out from time to time or encounter other people and me deciding to officiate increases the risk to them when they had no say in the matter. That possibility of passing it on to other people is what bothers me and gives me pause. This is even more complicated for me as my wife is a doctor at a Children's Hospital and if I were to pass it on to her, that means her patients and the hospital suffers too because of my choice. There is also other concerns from a medical standpoint such as more people having it increasing the chance of mutation into something more dangerous or just another strain which would make a vaccine less effective (the flu vaccine is never 100% effective because there always multiple strains of the flu at any one time and you can't build a vaccine that covers every possibility at once. The way flu works is actually really fascinating to read about.).
There is a lot of time between now and August and hopefully things develop in a way to get us back onto the field either by a dramatic decrease in number of infections, improved testing and tracing, improved therapeutics, creative ideas as to how to get things to work, etc...
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Knowing that County/City school boards err on the side of caution - as in a lot of caution, while I'm optimistic we'll have normalcy in September, I can absolutely see fall sports/football being affected.
i.e. maybe an 8-week, no byes, season. which is better than nothing.
right now, 'jamborees'/classics here are 8/14 and last games are 10/30
I can see them starting on 9/11 and 10/30 as week8.
While some parts of FL are not too much affected, some affected a bit, and other parts very affected; I have to think the very affected places look more grim for fall sports/football than others. and of course if no S.FL schools can play then they'll just cut it across the board.
Goodness, yesterday on the local news I saw where local schools were planning for alternative learning plans - which if that is on the table you can guess sports will also be affected..
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New York conducted a poll on hospitalized patients to trace their steps. 66% indicated they never even left their homes during the time they became infected. 18% were nursing homes, and only 3% from public transportation.
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I'm hearing in NC that they are discussing alternating days for students which leads some to believe that will kill off sports if that ends up the operating plan.
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How do officials wear masks? I don't see how that could work. There seems to be no better breeding ground for spreading this virus than maybe rest homes and cruise ships. We see spit, sweat, blood in every game we officiate. It gets all over the ball. We touch the ball every play then put a whistle in our mouths with our hands. I guess we will all have to make the choice to be infected or not officiate. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but that seems to be our choices right now.
The only thing I can say to that is most people who contract it get no or minor symptoms. And most people who do get sick are able to recover. If they are able to determine that 20% or even 50% of the people are already carrying the antibodies and they are able to determine the antibodies provide some period of immunity, it completely changes the impact of the spread. If you add in therapies that are generally effective, the biggest risk is we have some players, coaches, officials, fans who are miss a couple weeks because they are sick.
If we have to officiate with a mask on, I don't think there will be games. That means this is still a serious enough threat to be extremely dangerous. I can't imagine officiating an entire game with a mask on. It is physically exerting and just like the mask helps prevent the spread of germs, it also confines breathing. If I'm required to wear a mask I likely don't officiate.
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How do officials wear masks? I don't see how that could work. There seems to be no better breeding ground for spreading this virus than maybe rest homes and cruise ships. We see spit, sweat, blood in every game we officiate. It gets all over the ball. We touch the ball every play then put a whistle in our mouths with our hands. I guess we will all have to make the choice to be infected or not officiate. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but that seems to be our choices right now.
What happens if masks are worn and you are following a big play. At a critical time as the ball carrier is tackled by his facemask he fumbled the ball but you couldn't see it because you wear glasses and they fogged up. How do you explain to the coaches...
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New York conducted a poll on hospitalized patients to trace their steps. 66% indicated they never even left their homes during the time they became infected. 18% were nursing homes, and only 3% from public transportation.
I think most of the people in NYC live in apartment buildings that recirculate the same air, so that's probably how they got infected in their homes. Forget where I heard this.
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The obvious reason that masks will not work for officials is because of the whistle. There would be no way that I can think of to blow the whistle with a mask on. I do not believe it would be possible to properly administer the game without a whistle. Although, I guess you could use some sort of hand held horn if it came to that. I think if you have to wear a mask, it is probably too unsafe to play.
As I said before, I am not so much worried about getting sick myself. I am more concerned about bringing the virus home to my family. If there are games, I will officiate, but I am concerned about getting my family sick (or worse).
I hope some sort of testing program for anyone who has to be on the field will be in place, but I doubt that would be the case for any level below FBS or maybe FCS.
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How are they going to put these kids on a bus if there is any type of social distancing requirement or limitation on # of people gathering?
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These have been used in soccer for a while so it would take care of the mask vs whistle problem.
https://www.fox40world.com/electronic-whistle
But I wear glasses so not sure how that's going to get fixed if required.
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In my recent zoom coaches clinic, one rather rude coach responded when the question of masked officials blowing whistles : " You guys only have so many holes, but only one that can blow a whistle >:( !",
......I guess he's right :) .
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New York conducted a poll on hospitalized patients to trace their steps. 66% indicated they never even left their homes during the time they became infected. 18% were nursing homes, and only 3% from public transportation.
No, 66% were people who stayed at home most of the time, but still went to Grocery Stores, restaurants, Walmart, etc. and picked the virus up at one of those places. Or a family member living in the same household left the house, returned and that's how they got infected.
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The obvious reason that masks will not work for officials is because of the whistle. There would be no way that I can think of to blow the whistle with a mask on. I do not believe it would be possible to properly administer the game without a whistle. Although, I guess you could use some sort of hand held horn if it came to that. I think if you have to wear a mask, it is probably too unsafe to play.
2 options I can see:
1) Officials can get an electronic whistle, like the Fox one: https://www.fox40world.com/electronic-whistle
2) A new 'sideline official' on the sideline has something like an air horn where they blow it when an official would normally blow a whistle.
Would we be getting tested for COVID-19 every week at our weekly meetings? I would think this would have to happen as well.
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From a few guys I've talked to, I'm afraid the high school teams may have to do some interesting scheduling this year because of a lack of officials. I've heard of several who are debating whether to work this year or not because of Covid19. If we lose a lot of officials because of this, it will just cause our current shortage to get much, much worse.
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A thing that hasn't been addressed on this topic is the "bear factor". While many of us are concerned for our safety of taking the field, think about Momma Bear and Poppa Bear ! :o While the safety of sending Baby Bear to a classroom full of students seems in doubt- even with social distancing - the chances of Baby Bear donning the pads in a sport, where social distancing can't happen, would be unthinkable.
:) P_S ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8] ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( >:D :bOW :!# deadhorse: pi1eOn hEaDbAnG :puke:
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It could go a lot deeper than we have been discussing. What about employers and insurance companies putting their foot down. I worked for a company ten years ago that told me if I got hurt officiating, they would fire me (they had done this with other employees that had dangerous hobbies). I still officiated but no longer work there partly because I refused to stop. I can see employers like cities (police, firemen and other critical staff), military and hospitals telling their people not to be involved in any activity that puts them at risk. Insurers could claim this was a self inflicted illness because the person knew the contagious nature of the virus and deny coverage.
What if Medicare says that any recipient who willfully puts them self in a high risk position will not be covered. I can't afford to put my finances at this type of risk.
After thinking about it, the key to all sports may come down to insurance and what risk the insurance companies are willing to take.
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What happens if masks are worn and you are following a big play. At a critical time as the ball carrier is tackled by his facemask he fumbled the ball but you couldn't see it because you wear glasses and they fogged up. How do you explain to the coaches...
I wear glasses and before I go to the grocery store now I use a little of my scuba diving mask defog on my glasses, completely solved the glasses fogging issue.
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These have been used in soccer for a while so it would take care of the mask vs whistle problem.
https://www.fox40world.com/electronic-whistle
But I wear glasses so not sure how that's going to get fixed if required.
I bought one of these as a gag a few years ago. I would tell the crew in the pregame I was going to use it. Funny thing is, they are not nearly loud enough for football. You'd never hear these even in a semi-full stadium.
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From a few guys I've talked to, I'm afraid the high school teams may have to do some interesting scheduling this year because of a lack of officials. I've heard of several who are debating whether to work this year or not because of Covid19. If we lose a lot of officials because of this, it will just cause our current shortage to get much, much worse.
Agreed. No doubt about it.
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Ralph but every “Poppa Bear” I come in contact with thinks junior is the next Jim Brown or Reggie White. So they have to play this year so nick sabban can recruit them
A thing that hasn't been addressed on this topic is the "bear factor". While many of us are concerned for our safety of taking the field, think about Momma Bear and Poppa Bear ! :o While the safety of sending Baby Bear to a classroom full of students seems in doubt- even with social distancing - the chances of Baby Bear donning the pads in a sport, where social distancing can't happen, would be unthinkable.
:) P_S ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8] ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( >:D :bOW :!# deadhorse: pi1eOn hEaDbAnG :puke:yet
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What about states like Texas that officials are paid on gate fees. No crowd, no gate!
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I bought one of these as a gag a few years ago. I would tell the crew in the pregame I was going to use it. Funny thing is, they are not nearly loud enough for football. You'd never hear these even in a semi-full stadium.
If we are wearing masks I'm guessing there will be few if any fans in the stands.
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I drove past a baseball field this past weekend and they were have a little league game and the bleachers were fully packed. Ithink people are just ready to see some sports and they jumoed all on on this little baseball game. More tournaments are taking place this weekend.
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I am astounded and cannot believe that youth sports are taking place anywhere in the country when pro sports are sidelined...only in America I guess.
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I am astounded and cannot believe that youth sports are taking place anywhere in the country when pro sports are sidelined...only in America I guess.
It is BECAUSE this is America - land of the free. Virtually all true and free Americans were willing to voluntarily suspend their freedoms for a moment to figure out this Covid thing, get a plan, and then get back to life and business. Believe it or not, we have figured it out. We know what it is. We know how it is transmitted. We know its effects. And we know how to treat it. People are going to get it. The vast, vast majority will survive it, just fine. Tragically, a small percentage will not. The medical professionals are bustin' their butts to minimize the tragedies. Given time, it will go away.
But, true and free Americans are no longer willing to have their freedoms suspended, especially not by over-reaching governmental actions. Most folks (myself included) will continue to observe sensible and practical practices to help mitigate exposure. We had a face-to-face chapter board meeting recently, on the porch of one guy's house, with all 9 of us spread about a bit. Those are sensible, reasonable and practical things. Went to an optometrist a few days ago, had my temperature checked at the door and wore a mask. Not real comfortable, but, still, a sensible, reasonable, and practical practice, to allow that business to continue to operate. ALL business can resume immediately, with voluntary, sensible, reasonable and practical practices. Recreation can go on, with similar precautions.
People are still going to get Covid for some time to come (I'm guessing for up to a year, but just a guess, based on the trends we see reported "on the TV"). But testing is available to virtually everyone, and treatment is effective for the vast, vast majority.
Yes, I am willing to accept the possibility that I might get Covid by getting back to normal life and business. I fully accept that responsibility, and will not blame anyone.
Will you join me?
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Ralph but every “Poppa Bear” I come in contact with thinks junior is the next Jim Brown or Reggie White. So they have to play this year so nick sabban can recruit them
Yep
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What about states like Texas that officials are paid on gate fees. No crowd, no gate!
I'm in Texas and I've only completed one year of officiating but I would guess that excepting the biggest schools, the vast majority just pay a standard rate, regardless of the gate take, regardless of what the paysheet says. Most schools/games are small enough that it's really a non-issue, IMO.
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What about states like Texas that officials are paid on gate fees. No crowd, no gate!
There's a minimum. Can't recall, but something like $85
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It is BECAUSE this is America - land of the free. Virtually all true and free Americans were willing to voluntarily suspend their freedoms for a moment to figure out this Covid thing, get a plan, and then get back to life and business. Believe it or not, we have figured it out. We know what it is. We know how it is transmitted. We know its effects. And we know how to treat it.
No, there are no treatments. There are some things that work sometimes for some people. But in general, there is nothing but rest, and hope your body recovers. There are also lots of snake-oils like Hydroxychloroquine. If you get COVID-19, it's all up to your individual body to how it will fight it, or not fight it. It's basically Russian Roulette - most people will be fine, some people will die.
I predict sports with less contact like Baseball, Tennis, Golf, Volleyball and possibly Soccer can come back this fall. I very much doubt sports that I love (like Lacrosse, Football or Hockey) will be able to come back quickly at the youth level.
I would have no problem umping Baseball or Softball, but not Football. And I bet insurance would be too high for it to come back.
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No, there are no treatments. There are some things that work sometimes for some people. But in general, there is nothing but rest, and hope your body recovers. There are also lots of snake-oils like Hydroxychloroquine. If you get COVID-19, it's all up to your individual body to how it will fight it, or not fight it. It's basically Russian Roulette - most people will be fine, some people will die.
I predict sports with less contact like Baseball, Tennis, Golf, Volleyball and possibly Soccer can come back this fall. I very much doubt sports that I love (like Lacrosse, Football or Hockey) will be able to come back quickly at the youth level.
I would have no problem umping Baseball or Softball, but not Football. And I bet insurance would be too high for it to come back.
I have a friend who has a bad heart and got Covid-19 and was hospitalized. He is quite thankful that he was treated with the snake-oil Hydroxychloroquine. He recovered relatively quickly and was released after around a week in the hospital.
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I have a friend who has a bad heart and got Covid-19 and was hospitalized. He is quite thankful that he was treated with the snake-oil Hydroxychloroquine. He recovered relatively quickly and was released after around a week in the hospital.
Would he have recovered exactly the same way without Hydroxychloriquine? Maybe. Maybe not. One person's 'success story' has no realm in truth. Studies have proven otherwise.
Does calling that Timeout to 'ice the kicker' work if the kick misses? The winning coach will swear that the timeout worked.
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Would he have recovered exactly the same way without Hydroxychloriquine? Maybe. Maybe not. One person's 'success story' has no realm in truth. Studies have proven otherwise.
Does calling that Timeout to 'ice the kicker' work if the kick misses? The winning coach will swear that the timeout worked.
The major question is - Does it matter as long as it is thought to work? You don't do it if you anticipate failure, otherwise you will never know or move forward. The burning question is: if it were you or your family, would you attempt it or blow it off?
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I am kind of done with the political aspect of this. This country is so polarized that it is really impossible to change anyone’s mind even with facts that are not supposed to be negotiable (you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts).
Everyone expresses things from their point of view, and expects others to jump on board. People compare this to the flu by saying how many people died in a year which is around 60,000 for the flu. Around 100,000 died from COVID in just 3 months. There is really no comparison.
We need testing and we need contact tracing. Testing is not readily available when you look at this on a per capita basis which is the only way to look at it on an apples to apples basis.
I just wish people would look at the facts. It is true that in science anecdotal evidence evidence should not be considered so these one off accounts really do not mean much if anything. The studies show which drugs are effective or not. If you want to rely on individual stories that is your choice but it is not science.
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I am kind of done with the political aspect of this. This country is so polarized that it is really impossible to change anyone’s mind even with facts that are not supposed to be negotiable (you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts).
Everyone expresses things from their point of view, and expects others to jump on board. People compare this to the flu by saying how many people died in a year which is around 60,000 for the flu. Around 100,000 died from COVID in just 3 months. There is really no comparison.
We need testing and we need contact tracing. Testing is not readily available when you look at this on a per capita basis which is the only way to look at it on an apples to apples basis.
I just wish people would look at the facts. It is true that in science anecdotal evidence evidence should not be considered so these one off accounts really do not mean much if anything. The studies show which drugs are effective or not. If you want to rely on individual stories that is your choice but it is not science.
I'm really sick of the politics around this too. No matter what one side does, the other says it's politically motivated. And, at this point, how do we know whether it is or isn't?
On one hand, comparing the number of flu deaths to Covid19 deaths can be a valid comparison. Flu season is typically around 4 months each year, not 12. We can compare the average flu season to this Covid19 season. It sounds like Covid19 is going to be with us for the unforeseeable future and people will continue to die from it, just like the flu...no matter how good of a vaccine or treatment we get. So, over 4 months last year, according to the CDC, around 35,000 people died from the flu. If we compare that to Covid19, Covid19 is going to be about 3-4 times as many so that comparison could be valid.
On the other hand, we don't know if the numbers being reported are even accurate. According to the CDC, "Overall, the CDC estimates that 12,000 and 61,000 deaths annually since 2010 can be blamed on the flu." So, we don't even know how many people die from the flu. 12,000 - 61,000 is a pretty big range. And then there is the question of how many people have actually died FROM Covid19, not just WITH Covid19. For instance, a friend lost his dad recently. He had been very sick for quite a while and they called in hospice. Two days before he died, the doctor decided to test him for Covid19. He tested positive, but he obviously didn't die from it. He was going to die in the next week or so anyway. The way these are being counted in many places is very inaccurate. This is like saying a person was an alcohol related death when he was drunk in his driveway and a meteor landed on him. I don't think alcohol played a part, but that helps pad the stats for the folks who want to prohibit alcohol. I think we've all heard of hospitals trying to get more Covid19 deaths because the government is giving more money from those than other types of deaths.
I don't envy the folks that have to make the decisions on when to open back up, but when things are opened back up, we (individuals) are free to decide whether or not we want to move forward. If one doesn't feel comfortable going out to eat today, they can stay at home. Those who do feel comfortable can go out to eat. People all over the world make decisions every day based on how risky they think something is. We went on vacation last summer with 4 other families. One of the families decided to drive all the way across the country because the husband is scared to fly. He was much more likely to die in a car wreck while driving 30 hours than the 4 hours in a plane, but that was his decision. I don't know why this virus can't be very much like that. Those that want to go out and risk it can and those that don't, can stay home.
That's not to say we should be stupid in what we do. We shouldn't go around licking handrails and doors, but one could if he/she wanted to. Maybe it makes sense to start this football season with certain restrictions on the number of fans in the stands. Maybe it's something different than that. I read an opinion today that college football season would probably be played this season with no fans in the stands. As an official, that won't be much different than many games I've worked in the past. I've had many games where there were less than 1000 fans there. But, it will be very different from games I've worked where there were 90,000 - 100,000 fans in the stands. If that happens, it's going to be very strange in Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, LSU, etc. But, football with no fans is better than no football to me.
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No, there are no treatments.
There is no cure. No question about that, just as there is no cure for the common cold, or any other virus. But there is “treatment.” My medical professional contact told me that the simple instructions issued by physicians to patients with viral infections of getting lots of rest, drinking lots of water, using over-the-counter analgesics and antihistamines, monitoring body temperature, and getting to a doctor ASAP if breathing gets difficult or temperature rises is, in fact, “treatment.”
Let’s stop being afraid of our shadows and get back to life and business.
My final comment on this.
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Would he have recovered exactly the same way without Hydroxychloriquine? Maybe. Maybe not. One person's 'success story' has no realm in truth. Studies have proven otherwise.
Does calling that Timeout to 'ice the kicker' work if the kick misses? The winning coach will swear that the timeout worked.
Please cite the study, I would like to look at it.
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In any given year there are X number of deaths in the USA and each year the total is pretty close to the year before. 2020 is mot different. We can run from death, but eventually it catches up. Those who have passed as a direct result of Coronavirus likely would have had their number drawn by some other method. Wonder what everyone is going to do with Covid-20? It's out there just waiting to pounce. We just haven't been informed of its existence. Absent the knowledge of the existence of said virus we have no reason fear.
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I am kind of done with the political aspect of this. (you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts).
We need testing and we need contact tracing.
From what I understand, the Peoples Republic of China has a lot of experience with "Contact Tracing". Be careful what you wish for, especially when it has the capability to expand, in all sorts of directions.
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It’s easy to find real studies. The internet box is an amazing tool:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117
For those who do not want to read the entire article, I jump to the conclusion:
Conclusions
Among patients hospitalized in metropolitan New York with COVID-19, treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both, compared with neither treatment, was not significantly associated with differences in in-hospital mortality. However, the interpretation of these findings may be limited by the observational design.
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Sounds like their observational design may have been to show it does not work!
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This is from a respected peer reviewed journal. All studies of this sort are limited based on being observational. You cannot do a real experiment in the medical realm as that would be unethical. You would have to have a control group who would get no treatment or a plecebo. The other group would get the drug. You really cannot do that. The second issue would be time of such a study. COVID 19 is a new virus. A real experiment would take too long if you could do one.
The best we have right now are observational studies. The mere fact the journal pointed out the weakness of the conclusion speaks well of the researchers.
This is a perfect example of you can have your own opinion but cannot pick your own facts. Can you find a peer reviewed study that rebuts these conclusions?
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It’s easy to find real studies. The internet box is an amazing tool:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117
For those who do not want to read the entire article, I jump to the conclusion:
Conclusions
Among patients hospitalized in metropolitan New York with COVID-19, treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both, compared with neither treatment, was not significantly associated with differences in in-hospital mortality. However, the interpretation of these findings may be limited by the observational design.
Thank you for the cite, as to doing the research, I wasn't making the claim you were, so I expect you to cite the source. And I do appreciate your sarcasm.
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Please cite the study, I would like to look at it.
Very easy to google these.
Coronavirus patients who took hydroxychloroquine had higher risk of death, study shows
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj_o_XEzcjpAhXV854KHbFPCGYQFjAIegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Fhealth%2F2020%2F05%2F22%2Fcovid-19-study-links-hydroxychloroquine-higher-risk-death%2F5244664002%2F&usg=AOvVaw3Ldjd2ZilajitA0ow6yjfA
I’ve seen no studies that have shown it works at all. All I have is Donald Trump (a known liar) saying it does. I’d be a fool to follow Donald's advice.
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We can all have an opinion, but let’s keep politics out of this!
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NFHS has posted a 4-phase approach to consider when allowing sports. The Maine Principals Association is attempting to follow it, BUT the three sports with the most physical contact are said to be : FOOTBALL, wrestling, and sprit (competitive cheering - where kids stack up on each other). With football being the only Fall sport of the three, it becomes the vanguard of the sports decisions. :bOW
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Not looking good as reports of players and staff testing positive at NCAA level
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That's if you believe the test. We had a nursing home that had 85 positives between workers and residents. They decided to do a second round of testing and used a different lab and all 85 tested negative. Which lab is right?
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There is a lot of discussion in Maine around HS football. A given appears to be if there is no reopening of classrooms there will be no extra-curricular activities. We all hope the season can proceed as always; but a couple of considerations are on the table, if needed, to prevent cancelling the season :
(1) Revamp schedule to play only teams from closest schools regardless of classification. While this would certainly create many mismatches , it would cut down on long bus travel.
(2) Move football and soccer to spring sports and replace them with baseball and softball to fall. Post season for football in late October and November can be chilly but acceptable. Unsure how baseball would be :o.
While coronavirus is rarely deadly to youth, it is VERY contagious. Their parents and grandparents and those with current medical challenges can be at deadly risk. IMHO, it's important to keep that in mind.
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(1) Revamp schedule to play only teams from closest schools regardless of classification. While this would certainly create many mismatches , it would cut down on long bus travel.
What is your definition of, "long bus travel"? I didn't think you could travel more that 20 mins without ending up in another state. ;D
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What is your definition of, "long bus travel"? I didn't think you could travel more that 20 mins without ending up in another state. ;D
Although nowhere near Texas size, Maine is nearly as large as the other 5 New England states combined. That only puts us 39th in size in the country which leads me to the following triva :
(1) Outside of New England, what are the 6 smaller states ?
(2) Where is the easternmost and westernmost points in the U.S. ?
PS : There are currently several roadtrips that exceed 200 miles round-trip. If those could be reduced it might help.
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The easternmost point is actually one of the small Alaskan islands - that chain extends past 180 degrees longitude, making parts of it in the Eastern hemisphere. The westernmost point would be the last one of those islands on this sign of 180 degrees.
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"(1) Outside of New England, what are the 6 smaller states ?"
Delaware ranked 49
New jersey ranked 47
Hawaii ranked 43
Maryland ranked 42
West Virginia ranked 41
this is my first post to the forum, I have been registered on here for almost a year and been reading posts for even longer than that.
I am in Southwest Oklahoma and have really enjoyed reading the posts and opinions here and have learned quite a bit, and had a few laughs as well.
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"(1) Outside of New England, what are the 6 smaller states ?"
Delaware ranked 49
New jersey ranked 47
Hawaii ranked 43
Maryland ranked 42
West Virginia ranked 41
this is my first post to the forum, I have been registered on here for almost a year and been reading posts for even longer than that.
I am in Southwest Oklahoma and have really enjoyed reading the posts and opinions here and have learned quite a bit, and had a few laughs as well.
How far from Altus are you? You might be close enough to Texas so if you wanted to cross the border and join our chapter we'd welcome you aboard.
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The easternmost point is actually one of the small Alaskan islands - that chain extends past 180 degrees longitude, making parts of it in the Eastern hemisphere. The westernmost point would be the last one of those islands on this sign of 180 degrees.
You nailed it, VALJ, being on both sides of the International Dateline helps. Some folks from Eastport, Maine (Maine's easternmost point) may disagree :).
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"(1) Outside of New England, what are the 6 smaller states ?"
Delaware ranked 49
New jersey ranked 47
Hawaii ranked 43
Maryland ranked 42
West Virginia ranked 41
this is my first post to the forum, I have been registered on here for almost a year and been reading posts for even longer than that.
I am in Southwest Oklahoma and have really enjoyed reading the posts and opinions here and have learned quite a bit, and had a few laughs as well.
Welcome to our forum, Oklahomaref, I hope you'll find it both interesting and enjoyable. Good try , South Carolina is also a tad smaller (32,020 sq. miles to 35,385 for Maine).
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All summer baseball - Little League, American Legion, and the like was cancelled several weeks ago. A group of interested parents and baseball fans have assembled some non-affiliated leagues to allow our youth a chance to play. In our sue-happy world, some problems arose :
(1) It was extremely hard to find fields that would allow such as many were on school or city property and would be deemed to be "deep pockets" by any sue-happy parent if little junior developed a cough.
(2) We umpires were advised that if we agree to work any of these games, we would follow the protocol :
A. Wear NO patches, NOTHING that relates you to any umpiring association, etc.
B. Don't handle any baseballs, if another ball is needed the coach of the team in the field will provide.
C. Maintain a good distance (6') behind the catcher when working the plate.
My Attila-the Hun recliner in front of my 60" TV sounds much more inviting 8] . With the exception of tag plays, baseball is a non-contact sport. If we have any football under the current climate, what will it resemble ??? ?. When leaving a visit with a friend, I used to say :" GOOD BYE! " tiphat: . Today I say : "STAY SAFE! " :!# . I hadn't used that term since, as their big brother, I would say to my teenage sisters before they left for a date.
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: (5-man crew)
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(2) We umpires were advised that if we agree to work any of these games, we would follow the protocol :
C. Maintain a good distance (6') behind the catcher when working the plate.
In a former life, before my daughter started playing softball, I was a long-time Little League umpire. To help out one of her former travel teams, I worked a scrimmage for them a couple of weeks ago. As much as I hated it, I worked from behind the pitcher, and made sure to keep several feet between her and I. Our local little league is running an abbreviated summer season, and I believe that I heard that "plate" umpires will be required to work from behind the pitcher as well.
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I haven't umpired LL in 20 years since "The Boy" was born and Mrs. HLinNC told me to pick a sport and like it.
I agreed to try MS softball this past spring to help out a fellow FB official who just started as the booker for our area for scholastic BB and SB. We had such a wet Feb. and March, I only got one HS scrimmage in. Everything got rained out, then Covid-19/Wuhan flu hit and poof, the season was no more.
Yesterday I got a text from a # that I didn't recognize. It was from a former FB official fishing for umpires to work 9-12 yr old baseball Saturday one county over. Since I long ago gave up working any non-scholastic sports, I passed on it.
Yesterday our governor announced mandatory masks and a 3 week pause to remain in Phase II. I think that kills sports and even school now here in NC. Part of me got so despondent last night I questioned why I am trying to get my knee back into shape or bother studying. So far I've registered with the state and purchased a Reddings guide but I think I may hold off spending any more money on this. We have counties on this end of the state that have had confirmed cases in the SINGLE digits.
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Wuhan flu hit
unacceptable from an official. Be better.
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unacceptable from an official. Be better.
Unacceptable to refer to something based on where it came from. Just like Chinese Food is no longer allowed to be used. French Fries, no more. And that German beer. No more usage. :sTiR:
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unacceptable from an official. Be better.
nAnA
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unacceptable from an official. Be better.
How is simply stating the acknowledged geographical region of origin of the pandemic unacceptable? He was only stating a fact.
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How is simply stating the acknowledged geographical region of origin of the pandemic unacceptable? He was only stating a fact.
But it is "politically incorrect" and therefore unacceptable. We need to rise above this gang.
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Our integrity needs to be above reproach. Xenophobia calls into question your integrity. By letting it stay unchallenged, it calls into question all of our integrity.
Don't give a darn how you meant it, the perception is what matters. And it is perceived poorly. Be better.
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So any reference to a geographic region is no longer allowed? There are several examples of past viruses and illnesses that are named after their place of origin. They weren't bad then and they aren't bad now. There is nothing xenophobic about it. As I said, French Fries, German beer, Chinese food, I can go all night naming everything that references the origin in the name. It is completely acceptable. Case closed.
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Political correctness is killing this country!
Just my $.02
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Our integrity needs to be above reproach. Don't give a darn how you meant it ,(INTEGRITY) the perception is what matters.
Integrity is built on an individual's personal behavior and character. Funk & Wagnalls defines it as, "Uprightness of character; probity; honesty. What YOU think might have been meant by someone else's comment is immaterial and doesn't matter, except to YOU. When YOU'RE not sure, YOU have the option to ask for clarification.
Why waste your time with silly, superfluous "Political Correctness" dictates, that only make you seem petty and foolish, and very few, if anyone, cares anything about.
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Xenophobia calls into question your integrity.
I'm tired of this word being thrown around so much. Dictionary.com defines xenophobia as: "dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries." Calling a disease by where it originated has nothing to do with the people from that country.
On the other hand, Merriam Webster has a much broader/general definition: "fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign." Strictly by this definition, there are many things I'm xenophobic about. The difference is I don't hate these things because of where they are from. Where they are from has nothing to do with my feelings about them. I hate and (somewhat) fear Covid19 because of what it has done to our country and world, but I don't hate China or people from China. I hate curry, but I don't hate India or people from there. I hate Ebola Zaire, but I don't hate Zaire or the people from there. We could all go on about things like this.
Some people probably hate Texas toast. Does that mean they hate all people from Texas? Do you see how ridiculous that is?
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Everything got rained out, then Covid-19/Wuhan flu hit and poof, the season was no more.
You chose to edit my quote, Getting Fat, and then chose to take it how you wished. My integrity will survive just fine, with or without your acceptance.
I will endeavor to persevere.
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I was going to reply to "Getting Fat" but I thought, "Nah, he's just kidding about not calling it the China flu or whatever..." Well, dadgum, he was serious. Some folks need to relax a bit.
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Our integrity needs to be above reproach. Xenophobia calls into question your integrity. By letting it stay unchallenged, it calls into question all of our integrity.
Don't give a darn how you meant it, the perception is what matters. And it is perceived poorly. Be better.
It is neither zenophobic nor unprofessional to refer to something factually. It was the region the virus came from, so it isn't inaccurate. If you don't want to call it that, fine. Don't. In my opinion, you alleging this is a hit on one's integrity is more offensive, but if that's how you truly feel, that's OK. I'm not going to dislike you for it. I'm simply going to suggest that there are others that do not think the same way you do and it would be a better idea for you to try and persuade rather than dictate on something that is in no way a slam dunk. In fact, its a weak shot, and I don't think you'd be that persuasive. Trying to pretend you've won the argument already is a bit silly.
Just FYI, the 1968-9 Pandemic was known as the Hong Kong flu; the 1957-58 Pandemic was known as the Asian Flu; and the one in 1918 was known as the Spanish flu. Were calling these those names zenophobic or is that just a recent phenomenon?
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My idea of flipping seasons may be gaining some steam.
https://www.dallasnews.com/high-school-sports/football/2020/06/27/idea-of-flip-flopping-fall-and-spring-seasons-is-gaining-support-among-coaches-but-will-uil-and-tapps-go-for-it/?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true
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My idea of flipping seasons may be gaining some steam.
I keep seeing mentions of it but no one yet seems to have actually pulled the trigger.
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Well if it is too dangerous because of COVID to play football, how is it safer to play baseball and other spring sports, you still have close contact, granted not as close as football.
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Well if it is too dangerous because of COVID to play football, how is it safer to play baseball and other spring sports, you still have close contact, granted not as close as football.
For baseball, there are far fewer numbers involved, both players and spectators. I would likely umpire HS baseball. I will not likely officiate HS football.
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It is neither zenophobic nor unprofessional to refer to something factually. It was the region the virus came from, so it isn't inaccurate. If you don't want to call it that, fine. Don't. In my opinion, you alleging this is a hit on one's integrity is more offensive, but if that's how you truly feel, that's OK. I'm not going to dislike you for it. I'm simply going to suggest that there are others that do not think the same way you do and it would be a better idea for you to try and persuade rather than dictate on something that is in no way a slam dunk. In fact, its a weak shot, and I don't think you'd be that persuasive. Trying to pretend you've won the argument already is a bit silly.
Just FYI, the 1968-9 Pandemic was known as the Hong Kong flu; the 1957-58 Pandemic was known as the Asian Flu; and the one in 1918 was known as the Spanish flu. Were calling these those names zenophobic or is that just a recent phenomenon?
Other possible considerations by the PC police :
The National Wildlife Federation didn't seam concerned with the 2004 Bird Flu being called that'
The term 'blitz' , in our beloved game, is short for blitzkrieg - lightning war in German - was used by the bad guys in WW II.
You guys may be able to think of a few more...…..
:sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR: (5-man crew)
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This just in: no fall football in Virginia.
There are three options, which apparently have been kicked down the road two weeks:
1. Cancel all fall sports except golf and cross country, the two lowest risk sports. That would mean a year without football, field hockey, volleyball, and cheer. Winter and spring sports on as scheduled subject to whatever happens the next few months.
2. Swap the fall sports to the spring, and vice versa. That would move softball, baseball, lacrosse, track and field, soccer and tennis to the fall, and the six fall sports to the spring.
3. No sports in the fall; winter sports start in December with an abbreviated season, start the fall sports for a short season in February, and run an abbreviated spring season starting in April.
The decision on which option will be taken will be decided at another meeting in two weeks or so.
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I was going to stay out of it, but I have to add my opinion. There really is no reason to call it the “Wuhan Flu.” I, generally would let it go because it is really not even worth the conversation, but using that term added nothing to the original poster’s point. Really the first problem is that COVID is not influenza, and calling it that just minimizes it’s true nature. Secondly, it is just a provocative term which is not really needed. Everyone knows what COVID 19 is so saying COVID 19/Wuhan flu really has no purpose except to provoke a reaction.
No one should really be surprised or offended when they get the reaction that they were seeking by using the term. Everyone does or should know that the term is not neutral and is intended and does “trigger” certain people. Why throw it out there and then act offended when it elicits the reaction that you knew it would especially on an officiating discussion board?
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I was going to stay out of it, but I have to add my opinion. There really is no reason to call it the “Wuhan Flu.” I, generally would let it go because it is really not even worth the conversation, but using that term added nothing to the original poster’s point. Really the first problem is that COVID is not influenza, and calling it that just minimizes it’s true nature. Secondly, it is just a provocative term which is not really needed. Everyone knows what COVID 19 is so saying COVID 19/Wuhan flu really has no purpose except to provoke a reaction.
No one should really be surprised or offended when they get the reaction that they were seeking by using the term. Everyone does or should know that the term is not neutral and is intended and does “trigger” certain people. Why throw it out there and then act offended when it elicits the reaction that you knew it would especially on an officiating discussion board?
So referring to a certain type of food based upon where it originated is now all of a sudden offensive? I bet during the last week you used those terms. Want some French Fries? Chinese food? Mexican food? Wuhan flu is only offensive because a certain President used it first.
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Can we all just agree to get along here?
The whole idea that a viral epidemic is somehow a political issue is ridiculous. Our focus -- everybody, in the whole world -- should be on how to battle this disease, how to prevent its spread and mitigate risk until a vaccine is found.
If anybody here thinks that they know better than career epidemiologists about how this disease behaves, then why don't you have a job at the CDC? We need all the help we can get here. I'm sure an expert of that caliber will be welcome with open arms (from a safe distance).
We can sit behind computers and point fingers and blame people for what could have been done months ago, but that's irrelevant. What matters is what is going on *right now*. *Right now* the virus is running rampant through our communities. *Right now* the virus is keeping schools closed and preventing sports from taking place. *Right now* is the time when we need to band together to stem the tide so that we can get back to normal.
*Right now* I would love for this site to get back to football discussion so that when the next season happens, whenever that may be, we're all better officials then than we are now.
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Jason,
The terms you use for food are all neutral terms. For whatever reason “Wuhan flu” is no longer neutral and is now provocative. No one should be surprised or offended when someone reacts.
I am just pointing out that the term “Wuhan Flu” is not even descriptive of the virus, and second it is simply a provocative term that elicits a reaction.
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Can we all just agree to get along here?
The whole idea that a viral epidemic is somehow a political issue is ridiculous. Our focus -- everybody, in the whole world -- should be on how to battle this disease, how to prevent its spread and mitigate risk until a vaccine is found.
If anybody here thinks that they know better than career epidemiologists about how this disease behaves, then why don't you have a job at the CDC? We need all the help we can get here. I'm sure an expert of that caliber will be welcome with open arms (from a safe distance).
We can sit behind computers and point fingers and blame people for what could have been done months ago, but that's irrelevant. What matters is what is going on *right now*. *Right now* the virus is running rampant through our communities. *Right now* the virus is keeping schools closed and preventing sports from taking place. *Right now* is the time when we need to band together to stem the tide so that we can get back to normal.
*Right now* I would love for this site to get back to football discussion so that when the next season happens, whenever that may be, we're all better officials then than we are now.
And this is why it is political because "right now" schools are closed because of politics not the virus, All the scientific evidences shows that kids do not give the virus to adults and kids do not die (yes there are outliers) from Covid. Teachers can and should social distance from other adults at the school, but are in no danger from the kids, so why are schools not opening, politics.
The death rate unless you are over 65 and/or have an underlying condition is no worse than a bad flu season, yet we close everything down and now reclosing everything again. Granted we didn't know that when it first started to spread, but we know it now. If you are in the group at risk, self-isolate. So why are things closing down again? politics!.
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Why is calling it the "Wuhan Virus" provocative? The term doesn't provoke me at all. Perhaps someone needs to relax a bit. We're on here trying to discuss the effect that this virus - covid or Wuhan flu or whatever - is going to have upon the football season. Please do not allow this discussion or any terms thrown around to trigger you. One way or another, the severity of this virus will decrease greatly on November 4...but, you're correct, it is not political.
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NY just announced today that Football and Fall Sports are delayed until March 1, 2021.
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“As the state considers reopening, it is unrealistic to believe athletic seasons can start on August 24th as originally scheduled,” said Paul Harrica, NYSPHSAA President. “The priority will continue to be on the educational process and a return to learning in the safest way possible.”
The NYSPHSAA Officers’ decision includes:
• Delay Fall sports start date until Monday, September 21st (NYSPHSAA PAUSE)
• Cancel Fall Regional and State Championship events
• Waive seven-day practice rule
• Maintain current practice requirements
• Encourage geographic scheduling for games & contests
• Schools would have the option, if permitted by state officials, to offer off-season conditioning workouts.
“We recognize this is challenging for everyone, but the decisions made at the State level are based upon data and statewide infection rates all in an effort to stop the spread of COVID and reopen responsibly,” said Dr. Robert Zayas, NYSPHSAA Executive Director. “
Interscholastic athletics across the state are currently prohibited.
Should high schools start a condensed season in January 2021, the plan would entail the following:
Season I (Winter Sports)
Dates: Jan. 4-Mar. 13 (Week 27-36) 10 Weeks *Note: tentative dates
Sports: basketball (girls & boys), bowling (girls & boys), gymnastics, ice hockey (girls & boys), indoor track & field (girls & boys), skiing (girls & boys), swimming (boys),
Due to the high-risk nature of wrestling and competitive cheer, those sports may be moved to season II or season III.
Season II (Fall Sports)
Dates: Mar. 1-May 8 (Week 35-44) 10 Weeks *Note: tentative dates
Sports: football, cross country (girls & boys), field hockey, soccer (girls & boys), swimming (girls), volleyball (girls & boys), Unified bowling.
Girls Tennis will be moved to Season III.
Season III (Spring Sports)
Dates: Apr. 5-Jun. 12 (Week 40-49) 10 Weeks *Note: tentative dates
Sports: baseball, softball, golf (girls & boys), lacrosse (girls & boys), tennis (girls & boys), outdoor track & field (girls & boys), Unified basketball.
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And this is why it is political because "right now" schools are closed because of politics not the virus, All the scientific evidences shows that kids do not give the virus to adults and kids do not die (yes there are outliers) from Covid. Teachers can and should social distance from other adults at the school, but are in no danger from the kids, so why are schools not opening, politics.
The death rate unless you are over 65 and/or have an underlying condition is no worse than a bad flu season, yet we close everything down and now reclosing everything again. Granted we didn't know that when it first started to spread, but we know it now. If you are in the group at risk, self-isolate. So why are things closing down again? politics!.
This is the problem. Politicians, naturally, want to make everything about politics. That's one reason why people, in general, don't really like politicians.
We have politicians screaming about keeping the schools closed while the American Academy of Pediatrics says schools should open back up and kids need to be back in the classroom. For purposes of this discussion board, that's like sitting at a football game between a fan who never played the game and an official who has 20+ quality years of officiating under his belt. When something in the game happens, they both give you their opinion and you go decide to go with the casual fan instead of the official...just because it serves you better.
No matter who is in office, they should be listening to the experts and following their lead. Unfortunately, in this case, the experts have changed their tunes several times because no one really knew what this thing was or how it was going to impact all aspects of our lives. We have to expect mistakes to be made when we are all going through this for the first time.
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The American Academy of Pediatrician’s stance on this is more nuanced than you imply
https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Return-to-School-During-COVID-19.aspx
That being said it is not helpful having the top politician in the country basically saying kids need to go back to school no matter what. The press secretary just today said the White House’s (President’s) position is that science should not get in the way of kids returning to school. You cannot make this stuff up.
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Jason,
The terms you use for food are all neutral terms. For whatever reason “Wuhan flu” is no longer neutral and is now provocative. No one should be surprised or offended when someone reacts.
I am just pointing out that the term “Wuhan Flu” is not even descriptive of the virus, and second it is simply a provocative term that elicits a reaction.
Who is it provocative to? Ever hear of the Spanish flu? Powassan virus? Lyme disease? My next door neighbors both to the east and west of my house are both from China. When both of them call it Wuhan virus then what's the problem with using it. Neither of them are offended and I asked them why they call it that and they explained that it was because that's where it came from.
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This article from the Washington Post explains the issue quite well. I already know, fake news.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/20/coronavirus-trump-chinese-virus/
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So you dug up a three week old post and commented 4 times in one day when you intended to "stay out of it"?
You have no idea what I intended, what kind of dog I like or what I had for breakfast.
Farewell
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I will not get into what its called. I do know what's its like having it. Although it was mild case, lost taste & smell mid back pain for weeks. Had a hard time sleeping the thought of it getting worse and ending in the hospital really played in my mind. The wife had it too with the same symptoms with headaches. We quarantined apart in our own house, she in one part me in another. Thankfully we have recovered and both back to work. It was dam scary. That being said I would love for football to return. But I remain concerned for the health of my fellow officials the players and their families. Be safe everyone.
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“The State of Texas today had to remove 3,484 cases from its Covid-19 positive case count, because the San Antonio Health Department was reporting ‘probable’ cases for people never actually tested, as 'confirmed' positive cases.- TDHS,” Fox 4 Dallas Evening News anchor Steve Eagar tweeted Wednesday. “What other departments make this same mistake?”
I expect this has been taking place all over. I posted somewhere previously about this last week. When the number of tests given doesn't match the combined total of positives and negatives then something is wrong. No test, no count.
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My daughter's father-in-law tested positive. He had minimal symptoms, but was isolated until he tested negative. After 3 more positive tests, he became negative. The point is: each of the 5 positive tests was reported separately, making his case 5 instead of one. This is probably unintentional, but the media reports may be significantly inflated due to these reporting errors.
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I expect this has been taking place all over. I posted somewhere previously about this last week. When the number of tests given doesn't match the combined total of positives and negatives then something is wrong. No test, no count.
Why do you expect this to be taking place all over? Because you think the pro-covid-19 people (i.e. democrats) are cheating?
Governor Cuomo from NY has stated many times that the COVID-19 positive numbers in NY are actual TRUE positive test numbers. None of them are assumed positive. NY releases another number of 'assumed positive'. Cuomo was upset that the NY Times merged these two numbers together in a few articles and put 'assumed positive' in the positive column.
The NUMBER of positive tests doesn't really matter. The PERCENTAGE of positive tests (if you're testing the general population, not just sick people) is truly indicative of the spread of Covid-19. And the number of hospitalizations, number of beds left, and deaths is another true indicator of the problem.
NY right now has administers among the most tests of any state right now. About 60,000 a day. The percentage positive is less than 1%. Yes, testing adds 600 cases to NY's total every single day... but that shows the spread is not as great as Florida at 18% positive and Texas at 17% positive. Both have 50-65,000 tests per day - similar to what NY is testing.
Please research what you are saying, and don't spread misinformation on 'feelings'.
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Why do you expect this to be taking place all over? Because you think the pro-covid-19 people (i.e. democrats) are cheating?
Governor Cuomo from NY has stated many times that the COVID-19 positive numbers in NY are actual TRUE positive test numbers. None of them are assumed positive. NY releases another number of 'assumed positive'. Cuomo was upset that the NY Times merged these two numbers together in a few articles and put 'assumed positive' in the positive column.
The NUMBER of positive tests doesn't really matter. The PERCENTAGE of positive tests (if you're testing the general population, not just sick people) is truly indicative of the spread of Covid-19. And the number of hospitalizations, number of beds left, and deaths is another true indicator of the problem.
NY right now has administers among the most tests of any state right now. About 60,000 a day. The percentage positive is less than 1%. Yes, testing adds 600 cases to NY's total every single day... but that shows the spread is not as great as Florida at 18% positive and Texas at 17% positive. Both have 50-65,000 tests per day - similar to what NY is testing.
Please research what you are saying, and don't spread misinformation on 'feelings'.
The post above yours pretty well summed it up. It's already been proven that not every hospitalized person is positive Covid just presumed to be, so using hospitalized numbers to make decisions is not accurate. Nobody should be added to the data that is used to shut down the state unless they have a confirmed positive test. As we have seen the symptoms associated with Covid are the same as a number of other respiratory illnesses. Just don't assume they have Covid and add them to the count.
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I saw the Johns Hopkins researchers responsible for reporting the national numbers being interviewed on Meet the Press the other week. They said their real concern is the under reporting of cases because of the restrictions on testing. According to them, asymptomatic people and those who show few symptoms who are never tested more than make up for any of the other discrepancies. As researchers their concern is under reporting.
All of these arguments about over reporting are the “red herring” logical fallacy.
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That and cases showing antibodies are listed as positive cases. The antibodies actually mean you had and recovered.
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I saw the Johns Hopkins researchers responsible for reporting the national numbers being interviewed on Meet the Press the other week. They said their real concern is the under reporting of cases because of the restrictions on testing. According to them, asymptomatic people and those who show few symptoms who are never tested more than make up for any of the other discrepancies. As researchers their concern is under reporting.
All of these arguments about over reporting are the “red herring” logical fallacy.
Fair argument. Either way, it's like a dog trying to catch it's own tail. Add to the fact that you have hundreds of medical experts giving their opinions on national news and none of them speak the same message. They say to allow science to dictate things. That's fine, I follow the science experts of national news channel X because they say what I want to hear. It's true. One news platform's medical experts say all is well essentially and the other says something far more dangerous. Who is right?
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That was refreshing. Republicans are supposed to be conservative so shouldn’t they err on the physicians that are saying that things are bad? Since our latest occupant of the White House, conservative no longer means what it used to mean.
To be fair, he was elected as a disrupter so I guess he is accomplishing the role to disrupt.
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That was refreshing. Republicans are supposed to be conservative so shouldn’t they err on the physicians that are saying that things are bad? Since our latest occupant of the White House, conservative no longer means what it used to mean.
To be fair, he was elected as a disrupter so I guess he is accomplishing the role to disrupt.
It has nothing to do with the President. Turn on any socialist news channel and their expert scientists say the world is doomed. Turn on any conservative news channel and their experts tell us things are better. Who's right?
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It has nothing to do with the President. Turn on any socialist news channel and their expert scientists say the world is doomed. Turn on any conservative news channel and their experts tell us things are better. Who's right?
Turn on any 'non-right-wing' news channel and expert scientists say that the entire world has solved coronavirus - except the United States. The US is doomed if things continue the same way.
Turn on any 'right-wing' news channel and experts tell us things are better so that Trump can get re-elected.
Hmmmm... which one should you believe? The entire world's success stories or one man who refuses to listen to anyone else.
We currently can't visit 166 other countries because of the mishandling of the virus. It is insane.
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I do have to laugh. Every time I see the President, he talks about how quickly he implemented travel bans, and now just about every country including Mexico has travel bans against Americans. You can’t make this stuff up.
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FOOTBALL IN MAINE !!!!
Every college football season (7)in Maine has been cancelled :( . Every high school season (74) is on :) :thumbup :). The Maine Principals Association announced yesterday that there will be a season with some modifications....
(1) Season delayed by 2 weeks:
(2) Schedules revamped to play schools in same region regardless of size;
(3) post-season and regular season both shortened by 2 weeks;
(4) coaches masks required - officials masks optional;
(5) only one captain at coin toss - no handshakes;
(6) team boxes extended to 10 yd. lines, coaches can only travel to 25;
…..but it's FOOTBALL !!
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FOOTBALL IN MAINE !!!!
Every college football season (7)in Maine has been cancelled :( . Every high school season (74) is on :) :thumbup :). The Maine Principals Association announced yesterday that there will be a season with some modifications....
(1) Season delayed by 2 weeks:
(2) Schedules revamped to play schools in same region regardless of size;
(3) post-season and regular season both shortened by 2 weeks;
(4) coaches masks required - officials masks optional;
(5) only one captain at coin toss - no handshakes;
(6) team boxes extended to 10 yd. lines, coaches can only travel to 25;
…..but it's FOOTBALL !!
All right! Go, you Maine-erds. So far, we (Texas) are right there with ya. 5A / 6A starts delayed until late September, but 1A thru 4A are on schedule for first games late August. Playoffs not shortened. 5A-6A Championships will be in January, for the first time. Ditto on masks, coin toss captains (nothing said about handshakes), and team boxes.
I was thinking the only football in the country in September would be here in Texas, but, it looks like the far, great, northeast, too!
Got my Acme Thunderer ready to go.
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Just gotta report this. You can believe it or not. I don't care.
A family friend is a nurse. She and 4 other "asymptomatic" fellow nurses procured the COVID-19 test kits that they had been using with local citizens. 3 actually took the test. 2 only opened the kits and made it look as though they had been used. All five were sent for results. All five came back "positive."
You can decide for yourself how accurate the statistics are.
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Mass to delay the starting of all fall sports to September 14, the first football game could be October 1 or 2nd.
that all depends on the governor approval. There's still the possibility no football in the fall.
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Just gotta report this. You can believe it or not. I don't care.
A family friend is a nurse. She and 4 other "asymptomatic" fellow nurses procured the COVID-19 test kits that they had been using with local citizens. 3 actually took the test. 2 only opened the kits and made it look as though they had been used. All five were sent for results. All five came back "positive."
You can decide for yourself how accurate the statistics are.
Really Elvis? A family friend.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/02/facebook-posts/fact-checking-claims-about-nurses-getting-nothing-/
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Yes. A family friend. Like I said, you can believe it or not. No one is saying the tests are being manipulated. They just ain't accurate. Ask Jimmie Johnson.
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A lady here in town had some symptoms. She calls the ER and they instruct her on how to drive into the parking to receive further instruction. They come out and she fill out the paperwork listing her symptoms. They instruct her to wait and they'd come back to administer the test. After about 30 mins she said she started to feel better and got tired of waiting so she just drove off. A week later they call her to report that she tested positive. She never got tested. We have 3 other cases on our count from people who were in West Texas for three months. Never came home to expose anyone and didn't get infected here. All they had was a mailing address here but yet we got credit.
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We have 3 other cases on our count from people who were in West Texas for three months. Never came home to expose anyone and didn't get infected here. All they had was a mailing address here but yet we got credit.
You'll always get stories about things going wrong. As long as this is not the norm, just a few isolated incidents, so what? The main thing is to look at the hospitalizations and deaths. If those are increasing, THEN there is a huge problem. These lag 2-3 weeks behind the cases. It seems that the increasing cases are proving to be true indictors in Texas, Florida, and most of the south.
Europe is opening up, with movie theaters, bars, outdoor events (even full stadiums in New Zealand). If the entire America (and Trump) would have taken this covid thing seriously, we could all be fine now. But we aren't because of lack of leadership outside the governors like Cuomo in NY.
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If the entire America (and Trump) would have taken this covid thing seriously, we could all be fine now. But we aren't because of lack of leadership outside the governors like Cuomo in NY.
Wasn't it the almighty leader Pelosi and Cuomo saying that it was perfectly safe to mingle about back in February. I expect people trusted them. Then we saw the blowup. The impeachment hoax is why we are here. In January it should have been all hands on deck but instead we were being told to go travel the country. That was a whole month after Trump sounded the alarm but nobody took him serious. Seeing how Pelosi and others took things and even accused him of trying to create a distraction of the public away from the impeachment, why should have we done anything different with Coronavirus?
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But we aren't because of lack of leadership outside the governors like Cuomo in NY.
The same "leadership" whose policies forced the hospitalized elderly nursing home patients back into the COVID brew to die?
I guess that's one way to cut expenses.
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Fauci is to throw out the first pitch at a MLB game tonight. I'm sure it will be reported as a strike, even if it bounces to the plate (area).
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You'll always get stories about things going wrong. As long as this is not the norm, just a few isolated incidents, so what? The main thing is to look at the hospitalizations and deaths. If those are increasing, THEN there is a huge problem. These lag 2-3 weeks behind the cases. It seems that the increasing cases are proving to be true indictors in Texas, Florida, and most of the south.
Europe is opening up, with movie theaters, bars, outdoor events (even full stadiums in New Zealand). If the entire America (and Trump) would have taken this covid thing seriously, we could all be fine now. But we aren't because of lack of leadership outside the governors like Cuomo in NY.
Well there is the stupidest thing I will read today!
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Alabama high schools to play as scheduled. Time-outs lengthened to two minutes. One captain per team at coin toss.
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The U.S.A. was founded on the principles of individual liberty and freedom. People are free to make their own free-will choices regarding their health and welfare. Just like people are free to assemble to express their support for, or opposition to, political issues, they are free to assemble to enjoy business or social activities. Everyone I know was willing to voluntarily and temporarily suspend that right, until such time as we, as a country, understood COVID 19, I.e., how it is transmitted, it’s effects, and how to survive it. We have known those things for many weeks, now. Those that choose to remain sequestered should absolutely do that, for as long as they choose. And those that choose to accept any risks associated with resumption of normal life activities should absolutely be allowed to do that. Both groups should be allowed to go their own way, and suffer the consequences and/or enjoy the benefits that their choices bring to them. And no one should expect any further government assistance or intervention.
And therein run lays the problem.
Since 1776, the freedoms and liberties of citizens of the U.S.A. have been slowly, buy surely, eroded. And there are extremists that want to see those freedoms and liberties eroded to the point of totalitarian socialist governmental control. We see that every day, when political candidates and ‘activists’ call for even greater regulation on practically every aspect of life, including the ability to assemble (unless it is in support of the socialist agenda, then, please, feel free to gather, riot, loot, and wantonly destroy the property of others).
I, for one, am absolutely willing to voluntarily practice certain medical safety procedures, at sensible and appropriate times and places. But, I willfully accept the risk of assembling to participate in a sporting event, as a competitor, spectator, or official. Those that fear their likewise participation will put them at an unacceptable risk are free to choose not to participate. Very simple.
Europeans don’t have the level of freedoms and liberties we have (or, are supposed to have, anyway) and that’s is what separates the. U.S.A. from other countries. Maybe - a very questionable maybe - Europeans have been more successful in slowing the spread of COVID 19. We’ll never truly know, because their statistics are suspect, at best.
I’ll stay here, continue to vote for candidates that will protect our freedoms and liberties, will let me keep (most of) what I earn, and will support my desire to enjoy life as I choose.
Stay indoors and isolated, if you choose. I won’t bother you. Move to Europe, Central America, Asia - wherever you choose (I’ll help you pack - just give up your citizenship and don’t try to come back).
Time for football.
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Cuomo and leadership in the same sentence? You've got to be kidding!!!
What he did with the elderly and the nursing homes is criminal!
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I do not know why any of us try because we are all just too polarized on politics. I am going to approach this as a debate coach/official as opposed to giving opinion as much as I can. I will give more opinion in my closing.
1. Facts rule the day. I do not see too many facts on the Let’s open and do things immediately side of the debate. I do see a bunch of unsubstantiated opinion. In a debate, opinion without foundation does not score points
2. I see logical fallacies. For example bringing up elderly deaths (which is certainly an issue but should be a debate of its own) is a clear example of a “red herring” fallacy. This has nothing to do with the point that the Northeast has flattened the curve, and the problem is now located elsewhere. The argument here is that the curve was flattened by the population doing as they were advised by the health experts under the leadership of the government officials. The current outbreak centers should follow this model is the argument. I have not really seen a counter argument. Something that I have noticed the media these days like to use logical fallacies when they have experts commenting and the hosts of the shows themselves. We should be on the lookout for this.
3. Someone said that the President was blowing alarm bells early. This statement needs foundation. The evidence clearly shows the contrary. I would like to see counter evidence or the argument falls flat
https://youtu.be/2eB_xCk5ABw
4. The President’s adviser early on admitted that the President relies on alternative facts which can be demonstrated easily by the sharpie incident with the hurricane. The President makes up facts to suit him. Is this who we need to lead a governmental response to a pandemic? There is a truism that someone who is a demonstrated teller of falsehoods can be disregarded on future incidents.
5. Now for football. How can football possibly start safely in the areas that are now hot spots such as Florida and Texas? There really is no logic to this and the argument that people should be allowed to do what they want falls flat in a pandemic because the actions of these few effect everyone else through spread. The evidence clearly shows that the more social contact people have the easier it is to spread the virus. I can cite many experts to verify this and the flattening of the curve in the Northeast supports it. Where is the counter evidence.
Finally, yes you can have your own opinions, but if you share them and want to try to influence others, those opinions should be grounded in facts. That is what the country is founded on. We need an informed electorate, who looks at things objectively, and comes to a reasoned opinion. My final challenge is for anyone to post a video or foundation for the statement that the President was sounding “alarm bells” early. The biggest threat to democracy and to beating this pandemic is listening and accepting “gaslighting” from our leaders.
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2. I see logical fallacies. For exam
Finally, yes you can have your own opinions, but if you share them and want to try to influence others, those opinions should be grounded in facts. That is what the country is founded on. We need an informed electorate, who looks at things objectively, and comes to a reasoned opinion. My final challenge is for anyone to post a video or foundation for the statement that the President was sounding “alarm bells” early. The biggest threat to democracy and to beating this pandemic is listening and accepting “gaslighting” from our leaders.
Surely you aren't suggesting Joe Biden is the answer? Go watch the State of the Union. Trump talked about the virus. Hindsight is 20/20. You are blaming him for something that was new and for something we had no idea would be spreading, supposedly, like a wild fire. Our first known cases were quickly isolated and everyone who spoke in public view said it was contained. If we knew then what we know now, sure things could have been done different. But we didn't and nobody did. Watch every politician who was blabbing on TV. Trump would have been hammered if he would have locked the country down when those first cases were identified. February 29 Pelosi was on national TV telling people the virus was nothing to worry about. Trump was being accused of being a racist for stopping travel. It was perfectly safe to go mingle in Chinatown. To Pelosi's credit she didn't know either how bad it was. Trump didn't either. At that time it was perfectly safe to mingle based upon what we knew at the time. If Trump was a democrat you would not be on here bashing him. That is fact.
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Again, you made a specific comment that Trump was ringing “alarm bells.” Can you provide one specific example of him doing that at the time the virus was emerging?
What is your foundation for that comment? Diverting and talking about Biden and Pelosi does not advance your argument, or provide foundation for it.
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How about the China travel ban on January 31, which the Democrats and media called unnecessary and xenophobic.
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That is a fair example but not a comment made directly by the President that would indicate “alarm bells.” During this period, he was still making comments minimizing the effects of the virus as demonstrated previously. The travel ban is sort of a contradiction and does not make sense in light of his other comments and actions. This is one example of something he did and one that he keeps mentioning. Are there any other examples besides travel bans? If he would have had these bans in conjunction with getting the country ready for a pandemic, this example would be more convincing.
There is some truth to no one knew the pandemic was coming or how bad it would become. However, it really does not make sense that he disbanded a government body that was directly responsible for pandemic response. He later denied that he was directly responsible for this, but he is the President so the “buck stops” with him which as an aside is another issue that I personally have with him. I have never heard him take personal responsibility for any action of the government. He is very good at pointing out how great he is, but is very bad at seeing any shortcomings.
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Not voting for Trump or Biden. However, I live in California where my vote really doesn't matter. The facts are what ever gets the best T V ratings and I have the ability to turn the T V off. Football here is starting in January and runs into April, with a March start for the Basketball and Baseball season (which most of us work at least two of the sports). I ref football, ($1,800 per season) and Basketball ($6,000 per season) and I coach Golf which starts in March... There is already a shortage of officials and no way to pull this off. We are also facing huge cutbacks in school funding and contracts with officials will certainly be renegotiated. BTY, I had the first pick in a 16 team fantasy baseball draft and after 3 months of research picked Juan Soto.
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However, it really does not make sense that he disbanded a government body that was directly responsible for pandemic response.
That is fake news. It was Obama who attempted to cut funding to it. Trump did not disband anything. He simply augmented it. When that fake news was going around the head of that agency even came out "shocked" that it was "disbanded" as he stated he was still working in the same office doing the same job. CNN quickly dumped that story.
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You make a logical fallacy again. You come to a conclusion with no evidence (alleged certainty fallacy):
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/
If you do not like snopes, here is similar confirmation from Reuters (read the entire link):
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-trump-fired-pandemic-team/partly-false-claim-trump-fired-pandemic-response-team-in-2018-idUSKBN21C32M
I would like to see some foundation to your comment that President Obama attempted to defund the team that he created.
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That is fake news. It was Obama who attempted to cut funding to it. Trump did not disband anything. He simply augmented it. When that fake news was going around the head of that agency even came out "shocked" that it was "disbanded" as he stated he was still working in the same office doing the same job. CNN quickly dumped that story.
Jason, my buddy, please stop. Just let this one go. We are not here for a political debate.
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You can't reason with 'em, Jason...
Most all of them are too far gone.
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Cuomo and leadership in the same sentence? You've got to be kidding!!!
What he did with the elderly and the nursing homes is criminal!
Please explain. Again you're taking right-wing fake news and treating it as real news.
This happened a dozen times: A nursing home patient had coronavirus and was removed from the home, treated at the hospital for 5-7 days then released back to the nursing home. When she got back, all of a sudden everyone got the virus and died....
Does it reason that the person who was originally infected in the nursing home magically got it all by herself, and never infected anyone else before being taken out of the nursing home to the hospital? No. That makes no sense.
Studies were found that putting the person back did NOT cause all the deaths. The covid-19 virus was originally brought in there by a nursing home worker. Remember, back then it was almost impossible to get a test - you simply couldn't test all nursing home employees when there were only around 400 tests available state wide.
The first patient with the worst symptoms was sent to the hospital, and back at the nursing home people slowly started to get sick, then there was an outbreak 7-10 days later, which is normal for covid-19. It doesn't make sense that when a patient is put back in the home, only 2 days later half the people there die.
Please pay attention to facts, and don't lie just because you hate one side and unconditionally love the other side.
(By the way the rate of people dying in nursing homes in NY is less than 40 other states)
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I am going to approach this as a debate coach/official as opposed to giving opinion as much as I can.
4. The President’s adviser early on admitted that the President relies on alternative facts which can be demonstrated easily by the sharpie incident with the hurricane. The President makes up facts to suit him. Is this who we need to lead a governmental response to a pandemic? There is a truism that someone who is a demonstrated teller of falsehoods can be disregarded on future incidents.
Yep, nothing political or opinionated in this statement. Have you every known a politician who hasn't/doesn't lie? Have you ever lied? Yes?, then, you Sir, are a liar.
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Yep, nothing political or opinionated in this statement. Have you every known a politician who hasn't/doesn't lie? Have you ever lied? Yes?, then, you Sir, are a liar.
Haven't you noticed. Individuals with these strong political beliefs can not be shamed or convinced. Remember, they live by the philosophy: never let the facts get in the way of your personal opinions. To argue with them is fruitless.
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Yep, nothing political or opinionated in this statement. Have you every known a politician who hasn't/doesn't lie? Have you ever lied? Yes?, then, you Sir, are a liar.
You're right. Nothing political or opinionated.... just facts. :sTiR:
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Yep, nothing political or opinionated in this statement. Have you every known a politician who hasn't/doesn't lie? Have you ever lied? Yes?, then, you Sir, are a liar.
This is yet another use of a logical fallacy, Tu quoque. Look it up if interested.
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Alabama high schools to play as scheduled. Time-outs lengthened to two minutes. One captain per team at coin toss.
serious question - what is the (health?) benefit of longer timeouts?
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serious question - what is the (health?) benefit of longer timeouts?
If the players are no longer allowed to share water bottles they will have to have their very own personal water container so it will take them extra time to find it and get a drink.
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I stole this from another source and thought it was pretty interesting based on what we hear from the media. I haven't had a chance to verify it, but I trust the source.
If you add Britain, France, Spain, Germany, Belgium and Italy together you get somewhere close population wise to the US.
USA pop. 331,187,544
Euro pop. 335,821,468
Total cases
USA - 4,918420
Euro - 1,381,902
Deaths
USA - 160,290
Euro - 159,356
Total tests
USA - 61,619,037
Euro - 43,708,630
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If the players are no longer allowed to share water bottles they will have to have their very own personal water container so it will take them extra time to find it and get a drink.
I worked a scrimmage on Saturday and they were bringing the regular water bottles out to let us get a drink. They were the same bottles the players were using. I'm not sure if this will change when games begin, but they didn't seem to worried about it in a scrimmage.
I don't remember the brand of bottle it was, but they were like this:
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/e8f26651-fbb7-4321-aafd-407585dc9156.e2b1d4dc35a194a49d972a62153a3acc.jpeg?odnWidth=612&odnHeight=612&odnBg=ffffff)
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I worked a scrimmage on Saturday and they were bringing the regular water bottles out to let us get a drink. They were the same bottles the players were using. I'm not sure if this will change when games begin, but they didn't seem to worried about it in a scrimmage.
I don't remember the brand of bottle it was, but they were like this:
Yep. Same thing at the two I went to. At least the water girl had a mask on but the players were all putting their lips all over those bottles. We had our own ice chest with water that we provided for ourselves. That may be the way to go.
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I bought a green bottle like that and made my own. I better not catch them drinking out of it on the sidelines.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Been pondering this for a while.
Hockey is nothing more than shoulder pads, helmets and a stick to beat each other with. Same exact close quarters as football. With one exception....
Playing on ice.
Zero positive test results, more than 700 tests run.
Maybe everybody has this all wrong.
It all goes away this winter.
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There are two (well, three, but two are directly related) statistics that I don't think anyone has proffered, that could be major factors in how this whole COVID 19 thing is viewed.
1a) What is the relationship of the level of illness of COVID 19 positive patients to their smoking history?
1b) What is the relationship of deaths of COVID 19 positive patients to their smoking history?
2) What average level of illness is experienced by all COVID 19 positive patients?
Being a disease that has a direct impact on the pulmonary system, I can't help but think that those that have a history of smoking are not only at risk of greater 'suffering' from the disease, but also from death, exacerbated by the disease. I'd really like to know the answer to this one, because tobacco is the only legal product on the market in the USA that, when used as directed, will kill you (on its own - never mind COVID 19). Nearly a half-million people in the US die from smoking annually (including second-hand smoke), yet, no one is calling for the heads of our legislators or governmental executives over this issue. According to CDC information, annual deaths from smoking are continuing to increase - not plateau or decrease. Where is the outrage? I can't help but think there is a direct relationship between smoking and the total death rate of COVID 19 patients.
And, to what level of illness does the average COVID 19 patient suffer? I don't know that, but I'd sure like to know. The half-dozen folks that I know, personally, that have tested positive for COVID 19 never suspected they had it to begin with, and were able to carry on with life as usual, with only the most minimal of effects. The worst effect any of them reported was the loss of taste for 1/2 of a day.
Yes, there are a lot of folks that suffer far more seriously than these folks. But, I suspect minimal effects are far, far more typical than those that suffer the more serious effects. But all we get are statistics on numbers of new positive cases, recoveries, and deaths. How about statistics on the level of illness experienced? If they used a scale of 1 (almost no effects) to 10 (critical effects), I'd be willing to bet we'd see the average level of illness for all of those that test positive for COVID 19 (across the country) to be somewhere between 1 and 2. If we knew that statistic, we probably wouldn't be nearly as afraid.
While COVID may be a topical issue, it will go away. I'm not a doctor or a biomedical expert, but, based on what I see being reported, IMHO, this time next year, COVID 19 will be totally under control - not totally eradicated, perhaps (that may never happen) - but truly under control, and the country will be completely back to normal. And, IMHO, nothing anyone - ANYONE - could have, would have, done would change this.
I'm not interested in a "new normal." I want to get back to the true normal. I want to get rid of the useless, ineffective masks (I do wear them, where/when requested). I want to go to a new movie. I want to go to concerts (Vince Gill, The Eagles, oh, yeah). I want to work a football game with a wild, enthusiastic crowd, shoulder-to-shoulder in the stands.
Let's encourage our elected leaders to PUSH for a vaccine before the end of the year. I'll volunteer to be a test subject, right now.
In the mean time, I will continue to live life as true normal as I possibly can. Which means - I GOTTA GAME TONIGHT! Yeah. Let's get after it.
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While we have been told that most Covid deaths were from people with underlying medical conditions, I didn't expect it to be this high of a percentage.
CDC: 94% of Covid-19 deaths had underlying medical conditions (https://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions)
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I bought a green bottle like that and made my own. I better not catch them drinking out of it on the sidelines.
In our game, water girls brought out cups of water during time outs. There were also trays of water filled cups on the sideline.
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While we have been told that most Covid deaths were from people with underlying medical conditions, I didn't expect it to be this high of a percentage.
CDC: 94% of Covid-19 deaths had underlying medical conditions (https://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions)
It doesn’t seem like the data is being used at all to make decisions in regards to Covid. Here’s the CDC link with demographic breakdowns. Only 6% of Covid coded deaths are characterized as Covid only deaths. The other 94% linked to Covid had, on average, an additional 2.6 comorbidities.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm
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But I think this is where it starts to get confusing, and context/causation matters.
If someone has a weakened immune system from chemo for lung cancer, and they get pneumonia and die, was the cause of death pneumonia, or lung cancer? I am almost positive that the American Cancer Society counts that as a lung cancer death.
Another example - if a hemophiliac (can't stop bleeding very easily) gets shot in the foot, and bleeds out, did he die from the GSW or hemophilia?
The point is, almost all deaths have multiple factors that can all be attributed to the death; to single out just one as THE cause of ignoring the reality that causes can (and almost always are) intertwined. Statistics can be manipulated by anyone, for any reason, and should always be viewed with skepticism, not necessarily because they are trying to be misleading, but that they can easily be misleading without context and additional information.
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I worked a scrimmage on Saturday and they were bringing the regular water bottles out to let us get a drink. They were the same bottles the players were using. I'm not sure if this will change when games begin, but they didn't seem to worried about it in a scrimmage.
I don't remember the brand of bottle it was, but they were like this:
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/e8f26651-fbb7-4321-aafd-407585dc9156.e2b1d4dc35a194a49d972a62153a3acc.jpeg?odnWidth=612&odnHeight=612&odnBg=ffffff)
Unless they are sucking on the nipple ...... how close is too close? Never seen a player, Official or Coach suck it down ....