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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: fudilligas on July 22, 2020, 08:15:43 PM
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There was a discussion about illegal kicks and this scenario came up:
Score: K21-R20
K ball 4th and 25 from midfield
Punter receives bad snap and attempts to run to LTG....realizing he can not reach the LTG he panics and punts the ball at the R35 where the ball goes OB at the R10....official throws flag for IK
Options:
if R declines the penalty it is K's ball at the R10, 1st and goal
if R accepts the penalty for IK @R35...K is penalized 10 yards back to the R45, actually gaining 5 yards on the play, and gets to run another play,
In either case R does not get the ball after K's 4th down punt, try explaining these options to R's coach
Am I missing something or is K gaining an advantage for doing something illegal
I can see a team doing this to run an extra play at the end of the game to run out the clock and keep R from getting the ball
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Similar to a long run downfield and there is a hold in advance of the run.
Enforcement is from the end of the run. Had he thrown an IFP, it would be the same enforcement.
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Similar to a long run downfield and there is a hold in advance of the run.
Enforcement is from the end of the run. Had he thrown an IFP, it would be the same enforcement.
IFP penalty includes LOD. Since the punter didn’t reach the LTG, R would take over 1/10 at the R40, correct?
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IFP penalty includes LOD. Since the punter didn’t reach the LTG, R would take over 1/10 at the R40, correct?
In that scenario yes. My meaning was the foul is enforced from the end of the run, which would be the spot of the pass or kick.
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There was a discussion about illegal kicks and this scenario came up:
Score: K21-R20
K ball 4th and 25 from midfield
Punter receives bad snap and attempts to run to LTG....realizing he can not reach the LTG he panics and punts the ball at the R35 where the ball goes OB at the R10....official throws flag for IK
Options:
if R declines the penalty it is K's ball at the R10, 1st and goal
if R accepts the penalty for IK @R35...K is penalized 10 yards back to the R45, actually gaining 5 yards on the play, and gets to run another play,
In either case R does not get the ball after K's 4th down punt, try explaining these options to R's coach
Am I missing something or is K gaining an advantage for doing something illegal
I can see a team doing this to run an extra play at the end of the game to run out the clock and keep R from getting the ball
To answer your question, no, K did not gain an advantage for doing something illegal. They were properly penalized for committing a foul. The end of game scenario could play out in several ways. The coach "could" instruct one of his players to commit a holding foul behind the line on a long run to be able to run an extra play, but why would he? It would be much smarter to get the first down. Plus, with the IK, there is, (imo) too much danger involved with turning the ball over. Any coach worth his salt would pass on this hypothetical situation.
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So is the OP correct in the ruling options to infraction or would be 5 yard penalty from IK spot, loss of down and R's ball 1st and 10 from it's 40yd?
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So is the OP correct in the ruling options to infraction or would be 5 yard penalty from IK spot, loss of down and R's ball 1st and 10 from it's 40yd?
No. An illegal kick is NOT a loss-of-down penalty.
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There was a discussion about illegal kicks and this scenario came up:
Score: K21-R20
K ball 4th and 25 from midfield
Punter receives bad snap and attempts to run to LTG....realizing he can not reach the LTG he panics and punts the ball at the R35 where the ball goes OB at the R10....official throws flag for IK
Options:
if R declines the penalty it is K's ball at the R10, 1st and goal
if R accepts the penalty for IK @R35...K is penalized 10 yards back to the R45, actually gaining 5 yards on the play, and gets to run another play,
In either case R does not get the ball after K's 4th down punt, try explaining these options to R's coach
Am I missing something or is K gaining an advantage for doing something illegal
I can see a team doing this to run an extra play at the end of the game to run out the clock and keep R from getting the ball
I guess the main thing you(we) may be missing here is that K never punted.
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CalhounLJ has the right idea. Ruling would be the same if he fumbled it and kicked it while it was loose on the ground. Rules makers didn't make a distinction between making a legal kick when not permissible by rule and illegally kicking a loose ball anywhere on the field.