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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: SBEII on August 21, 2020, 04:23:35 PM
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If you stop a game for you what 1st perceive to be an injured player, do you have to remove him for a play if you then determine you were too quick in your assessment and believe the player to be just fine?
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If you stop a game for you what 1st perceive to be an injured player, do you have to remove him for a play if you then determine you were too quick in your assessment and believe the player to be just fine?
Short answer. YES!
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Long Answer Yes
RULES BOOK 3-5-10
CASE BOOK 3.5.10 SITUATION B (b)
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There is a reason why you think before tooting the clock dead. Don't be "to quick". If you think you shouldn't have stopped the clock, then you shouldn't have stopped it in the first place.
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Sometimes players will lay down if they got burned on a play or whatever. If there isn't something apparently wrong with the player, I usually go up to them and say "you alright?". Usually they'll pop up right then. If they don't, I kill it and send him out.
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Same here but once I’ve killed it, somebody is leaving for a down. If he pops up after I’ve blown my whistle and is like “ hey, I’m ok” I’m like, “ you should have been ok sooner. Go take a playoff and come back.”
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I'll ask once or twice if they're alright before I kill it.
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Long Answer Yes
CASE BOOK 3.5.10 SITUATION B (b)
CB play cited does not cover this situation.
Be slow to blow the whistle. There is no hurry, give the player plenty of time to get up.
I am not going to penalize a team for my mistake.
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I agree with this philosophy, but I’m not going to let him lay there and burn up a bunch of time on the play clock either
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I agree with this philosophy, but I’m not going to let him lay there and burn up a bunch of time on the play clock either
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Hi Calhoun I was thinking about this and then I wondered that with the new play clock it really doesn't matter because they only have so much time to get the next play off. I have not had to think about this as always when a player is injured it is pretty obvious. I haven't experienced a player faking an injury yet.
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You’re right. That’s old- way thinking
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though I am now thinking this philosophy might come into play late in a half when time IS important. I'm going to make a note to talk with my referees to see their ideas on this but game situation awareness is important. Example:
Late in game Team B is ahead 27-25. Team A is driving and trying to set up their formation to quickly run another play but B74 is lying on the ground. I think it would be important, probably for the umpire or referee, to quickly determine and stop the clock if in doubt?
I don't see the wings or the back judge having to make this judgment very often.
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If a player is lying on the ground and the snap is imminent I’m blowing it dead and the player can take a play off. The offense shouldn’t be upset because they get time to setup their play.
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If a player is lying on the ground and the snap is imminent I’m blowing it dead and the player can take a play off. The offense shouldn’t be upset because they get time to setup their play.
yes I see what you are saying there and it makes sense. The offense hasn't been delayed.
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Unless of course they are trying to run Hurry up. Then it becomes a huge problem
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Unless of course they are trying to run Hurry up. Then it becomes a huge problem
Yes, but if I understood SC Cline I would imagine that if the offense has run up to the line and there is a player down on defense then A hadn't used anymore time than they would have had the play been run...except they might ask why wasn't the clock stopped earlier to tend to the injured player...so then in that situation I could see that determining very quickly if there is an injury is important.
I've got to think about this a little bit but I believe this is something that needs to be considered and we as officials should be aware in late half situations. So if a player is down at that juncture of the game it might be best to just stop the clock quicker than you might in the normal course of the game...
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if A is trying to get the snap off to catch B off guard and we have to blow it dead to remove a player lying on the ground, then B has effectively bought time with an apparent (or not so apparent) injury.
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Short answer. YES!
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The "Game Officials Manual" emphasis clearly instructs, "the protection and welfare of the player is paramount and with this there can be no exception.".
The covering official's judgment regarding this situation is absolute, final and NOT subject to discussion, debate or dispute. As with ALL official's judgments, this judgment should be made with careful consideration and awareness of the specific, and unique, situation, with player safety the primary focus and concern outweighing ALL other factors.
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I do recall a hard QB sack, where the QB was slow getting up. I inquired :
" ARE YOU OK ??? ?"
QB : "NO, Bubba missed his block and I'm p@#$%& >:(…...I'm OK to play, though >:( !"
….he stayed in.
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Some of life's more memorable short, and private, conversations are shared between officials and players on football fields.
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CB play cited does not cover this situation.
With all due respect refjeff, , I contend 3.5.10 SITUATION B Part b does cover this situation and is right on the mark!
Why?
Because the question in the OP included if "I stop the clock for an injured player does he have to leave for a play?"
This CB play makes it perfectly clear that if you stop the clock for a injured player, the player sits for a play.
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Yes..... move on to the next play.
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With all due respect refjeff, , I contend 3.5.10 SITUATION B Part b does cover this situation and is right on the mark!
Why?
Because the question in the OP included if "I stop the clock for an injured player does he have to leave for a play?"
This CB play makes it perfectly clear that if you stop the clock for a injured player, the player sits for a play.
In my case book 3.5.10 B is about a player with an "open wound."
In any case, if I stop the clock for a player that isn't injured I am not going to penalize the team for my mistake by making him sit for a play.
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The ruling in 3.5.10 Situation C may be more appropriate here. The last sentence in the situation reads: "when a game official notices that A1 APPEARS to be injured" (emphasis mine). One could naturally assume that would include a case when, at first glance the official thought he was injured when in reality he may not be. In any case, if an official stops the clock for a player who is, or appears to be injured, said player must sit. At least that's my take.
I agree with ReffJeff in that we must take proper caution to make sure a kid is injured before we blow it, but in cases when there is doubt, we need to err on the side of safety and send him out.
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T In any case, if an official stops the clock for a player who is, or appears to be injured, said player must sit. At least that's my take.
I agree with ReffJeff in that we must take proper caution to make sure a kid is injured before we blow it, but in cases when there is doubt, we need to err on the side of safety and send him out.
Agree with BOTH observations, a solution (in most instances) whenever possible and there is doubt, check with the player DIRECTLY BEFORE stopping the clock to assess the situation. If there is ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER, about his safety in continuing to play, stop the clock, and once doing so, he MUST be removed for one play (Where sideline MEDICAL STAFF (NOT Coaches) can better evaluate ANY medical concerns).
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Like they say out in West Texas, "Never let the Rules Book get in the way of a darned good football game"!
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If you stop a game for you what 1st perceive to be an injured player, do you have to remove him for a play if you then determine you were too quick in your assessment and believe the player to be just fine?
This topic has been discussed at length. If anyone is still in doubt as to whether or not you should send a player off after you have stopped the game for what you perceive to be an injury, please make sure that your liability insurance is current. It is almost inconceivable to envision a situation where you sent off a player who you perceived to be injured, the player gets medically evaluated and returns to the game and then you get sued for him missing a down. It is not at all inconceivable to envision a lawsuit arising out of you allowing a player to remain in the game after you stopped play because you perceived him to be injured, but then decided that he may not actually be injured EVEN IF YOU ARE A LICENSED MD!
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If a bone is sticking out and blood squirting in a high arch ... I'll stop it right then and not ask. LOL.
Best one ever. Coach yells out "Ray! If you have blood running do you sit out a play?" "Why coach?"
"Look at your arm!"
I had been kicked on the previous play OOB and thought nothing about it. Had a river of blood flowing. Trainers were good looking girls. Worked to stop the flow then wrapped it up. "Sorry girls, it's been a pleasure and I have to go back to work!"