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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: skt101 on September 14, 2020, 08:40:26 AM
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Need a clarification. NFHS rules.
8 man game. Running back flanks out but is off the line of scrimmage, not covering the player(tight end)on the end of LOS. QB starts cadence. All five lineman go set into their three point stance. QB then audibles and now the player on the end of the line of scrimmage (tight end) gets out of three point stance and resets to the other side of the line of scrimmage. Is this a false start since he was already set in a three point stance.
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An end can shift as long as the movement doesn't simulate the snap. Stance has nothing to do with it.
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I think the reference or question regarding stance is whether the player on the end of the line can pick up his hand and shift once he has placed his hand on the ground. The answer of course, is yes. In that case, stance is relevant to the situation.
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Agree. Had it been an interior lineman, then FST. But ends are allowed to shift from a 3 point.
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Agree. Had it been an interior lineman, then FST. But ends are allowed to shift from a 3 point.
Does it matter if the end is covered? I don't think he can come out of the stance if he is.
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He's not an end if he is so no he couldn't.
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Does it matter if the end is covered? I don't think he can come out of the stance if he is.
What’s the definition of “end”?
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What’s the definition of “end”?
Touche
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Touche
The only reference I could find relating to the position of an "End" is in NFHS 7-5-6, explaining who qualifies as an "eligible receiver" for a forward pass. 7-5-6a explains/defines, "All players of "A" eligible by position and number including those, who at he time of the snap, are on the ends of their scrimmage line or legally behind the line (possible total of 6) and are numbered 1-49 or 80-99. (7-2-5b EXCEPTION 2)"
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7-1-7-C c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of his line, after having placed a hand( s) on or near the ground, moves his hand( s) or makes any quick movement.
This says he can move his hand. Anyone on the field can shift as long as they don't break any of the rules. You could have the left tackle on the line with his hand not on or near the ground, 2 point stance, and he can shift to the right side of the formation to make an unbalenced line and there is no problem with that.
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7-1-7-C c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of his line, after having placed a hand( s) on or near the ground, moves his hand( s) or makes any quick movement.
This says he can move his hand. Anyone on the field can shift as long as they don't break any of the rules. You could have the left tackle on the line with his hand not on or near the ground, 2 point stance, and he can shift to the right side of the formation to make an unbalenced line and there is no problem with that.
Except in the OP, he was in a 3 point stance but an end, and then further down, he got covered. If he was on the end, yes he could shift. If he got covered by the shift then no he couldn't.
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I agree but I see nowhere he ever got covered. Any back or lineman on the end of the can lift his hand if he is in a 3 or 4 point stance as long as they are not simulating action at the snap, and shift or go in motion.
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Does it matter if the end is covered? I don't think he can come out of the stance if he is.
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The way this has always been explained during our rule reviews is that based on the current formation all eligible receivers by position (ie. backs and ends) can move to another position regardless of "stance" (1 point, 2 point, 3 point, etc). The 2 determining factors for rule compliance are that 1. the movement cannot be determined in our judgment to be a false start and 2. the "final" formation at the snap must meet all of the rule requirements for a legal formation.
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7-1-7-C c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of his line, after having placed a hand( s) on or near the ground, moves his hand( s) or makes any quick movement.
This says he can move his hand. Anyone on the field can shift as long as they don't break any of the rules. You could have the left tackle on the line with his hand not on or near the ground, 2 point stance, and he can shift to the right side of the formation to make an unbalenced line and there is no problem with that.
That says he *can't* move his hand. 7-1-7 starts with "It is a false start if..."
What if he doesn't move his hand though? What if the interior lineman in a three point stance drags his hand along the ground as he slowly shifts back and then around to the other side? :sTiR:
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Why try and confuse/complicate a straightforward rule? 7-1-7-c is clear, once an interior lineman puts a hand "on or near the ground", he has locked himself into that position. However he decides to move (slid, slip, wiggle, drag, lift, remove, convey, displace, abolish, separate, etc.) his hand from that position it's a "false start", IF the covering official sees the movement & understands 7-1-7c well enough to recognize the violation & kill the play.
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7-1-7-C c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of his line, after having placed a hand( s) on or near the ground, moves his hand( s) or makes any quick movement.
This says he can move his hand. Anyone on the field can shift as long as they don't break any of the rules. You could have the left tackle on the line with his hand not on or near the ground, 2 point stance, and he can shift to the right side of the formation to make an unbalenced line and there is no problem with that.
I may be speaking out of turn here, but I think KD is suggesting 7-1-7c supports the notion that the player on the end of the line can shift from a three point stance. Clearly, the restriction against said shift is limited to those players between the ends.
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I think we're getting to the point that we're getting crossed up amongst the different post on this one.
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I may be speaking out of turn here, but I think KD is suggesting 7-1-7c supports the notion that the player on the end of the line can shift from a three point stance. Clearly, the restriction against said shift is limited to those players between the ends.
You are correct. anyone on the end of the line or in the backfield can lift thier hand and move either in a shift to another position or in motion as long as adherence to all other rules are met.