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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: Ralph Damren on July 10, 2021, 05:04:12 AM
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While this was a "pickup line" in the movie Star Wars, it plays an important part in our game when the ball heads toward A/K's end zone. With the difference being getting the ball and new series or giving up two points and the ball with a free kick. YOU MAKE THE CALL...…..
PLAY I : K punting from his end zone; kick is high and short and R1 signals for a fair catch @ K's 10; ball goes thru his hands (touched) and bounces back into end zone where K falls on the ball ???
PLAY 2: A1 fumbles at A's 3 ;ball bounces off B3's back at A'5; ball then bounces back and touches pylon ???
Play 3: A1 fumbles at B's 3; ball bounces off pylon ???
MORE TO COME ^talk
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Safeties!!!
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Question
1. 3rd 8 @ B's 20 yard line and the clock is running. Quarterback A1 throws a pass that is intercepted by B55 @ B's 3 yard line and his original momentum carries him into his end zone. A80 tackles B55 3 yards deep in the end zone by a major face mask. Where do you penalize from?
2. 3rd and 8 @ B's 20 yard line and the clock is running. Quarterback A1 throws a pass that is intercepted by B55 @ B's 3 yard line and his original momentum carries him into his end zone. A80 tackles B55 3 yards deep in the end zone by a major face mask. B55 fumbles the ball out of the back of the end zone. Where do you penalize from?
3. 3rd and 8 @ B's 20 yard line and the clock is running. Quarterback A1 throws a pass that is intercepted by B55 @ B's 3 yard line and his original momentum carries him into his end zone. A80 tackles B55 3 yards deep in the end zone by a major face mask. B55 fumbles the ball and it rolls back into the field of play and out of bounds @ B's 1 yard line. Where do you penalize from?
4. 3rd and 8 @ B's 20 yard line and the clock is running. Quarterback A1 throws a pass that is intercepted by B55 @ B's 3 yard line and his original momentum carries him into his end zone. B55 runs around in the end zone and is tackled in the end zone by A80. A62 was flagged for holding before the pass was thrown @ B's 26 yard line. Where do you penalize from?
5. 3rd and 8 @ B's 20 yard line and the clock is running. Quarterback A1 throws a pass that is intercepted by B55 @ B's 3 yard line and his original momentum carries him into his end zone. B55 runs around in the end zone and is tackled by A80 3 yards deep in his end zone. After the interception and before B55 was tackled, B77 was flagged for blocking below the waist @ B's 8 yard line. Where do you penalize from?
6. 3rd and 8 @ B's 20 yard line and the clock is running. Quarterback A1 throws a pass that is intercepted by B55 @ B's 3 yard line and his original momentum carries him into his end zone. B55 runs around in the end zone and is tackled by A80 3 yards deep in his end zone. While B55 the end zone.Where do you penalize from?
7. 3rd and 8 @ B's 20 yard line and the clock is running. Quarterback A1 throws a pass that is intercepted by B55 @ B's 3 yard line and his original momentum carries him into his end zone A80 is tackling B55 three yards deep in the end zone and B55 fumbles the ball and it rolls back into the field of play and out of bounds @ B’s 1 yard line. After the interception B77 was flagged for blocking below the waist @ B’s 8 yard line. Where do you penalize from?
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Safeties!!!
Ya' got 2 out of 3, BetweenTheLines, you posted some great questions. I'll let others try first. :)
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Whoooops! B's pylon!!!
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Whoooops! B's pylon!!!
Yep. Three is a touchback
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BetweenTheLine's test questions...
(1) Enforcement spot is the 3
(2) " " " " 3
(3) " " " " 1
(4) decline penalty, ball @ 3
(5) at 3
(6) if B holds in EZ = safety
(7) at 1
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While this was a "pickup line" in the movie Star Wars, it plays an important part in our game when the ball heads toward A/K's end zone. With the difference being getting the ball and new series or giving up two points and the ball with a free kick. YOU MAKE THE CALL...…..
PLAY I : K punting from his end zone; kick is high and short and R1 signals for a fair catch @ K's 10; ball goes thru his hands (touched) and bounces back into end zone where K falls on the ball ???
PLAY 2: A1 fumbles at A's 3 ;ball bounces off B3's back at A'5; ball then bounces back and touches pylon ???
Play 3: A1 fumbles at B's 3; ball bounces off pylon ???
MORE TO COME ^talk
As promised.....
Play 4 : A1 fumbles at A's 3, ball bounces forward and bounces off LJ's leg @ A'5 , then back and hits pylon ???
Play 5 : A1 fumbles at A's 3 , ball bounces forward to A's 5 where it is muffed by B2 and bounces back and hits pylon ???
Play 6: A1 fumbles at A's 5 , ball bounces backward towards A's 2 where it is muffed by B2 and ball then hits pylon ???
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As promised.....
Play 4 : A1 fumbles at A's 3, ball bounces forward and bounces off LJ's leg @ A'5 , then back and hits pylon ???
Safety. Force is A's fumble. The LJ cannot provide a new force -- of course, if the LJ is in proper position he's probably out of bounds, so it's really A's ball at the 5 and the whole pylon deal is irrelevant.
Play 5 : A1 fumbles at A's 3 , ball bounces forward to A's 5 where it is muffed by B2 and bounces back and hits pylon ???
*By rule*, touchback. The muff by B2 can be a new force, since it caused the ball to change direction. This is a hard sell, so it best be obvious.
Play 6: A1 fumbles at A's 5 , ball bounces backward towards A's 2 where it is muffed by B2 and ball then hits pylon ???
Safety. The muff by B2 does not *have to be* a new force, since the ball was already going towards A's end zone.
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Good job, NCWINGMAN ya nailed em aWaRd
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A back story on #5....
Several years ago ,I was in our state association booth at a state championship game. In the next booth was a radio crew from the defensive team's town (ie.."homers") . The following play occurred :
(1) A's ball at A's 5;
(2) A1 fumbles, ball bouncing away @ A's 6;
(3) B1 tries to scoop it up on the run;
(4) B1 muffs ball into EZ;
(5) A2 recovers there;
(6) officials signal touchback.
Radio crew's response :
(1) "THAT'S A TERRIBLE CALL >:( >:(, THAT BAD CALL COSTS US TWO AND THE BALL >:( >:( !"
One of the state guys introduced me to them as "the rules guy" :-\. They wanted an explaination ???.
(2) I explained : " Once the ball goes into the end zone, it has to be one of three things. We all know it can't be a touchdown, as the wrong team had the ball. :-*. That leaves either a safety or touchback. It comes down to caused the ball to get there 8]. B1 could have fallen on the ball and it would be theirs, BUT he tried to pick it up on the run and muffed it into the end zone. If a teammate of his recovered it in there, it would have been a touchdown, but an opponent did for a touchback."
(3) Radio announcer : " So, there you have it, WE GOT SCREWED BY A REALLY BAD RULE hEaDbAnG !"
pi1eOn :puke: :puke: pi1eOn.
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A back story on #5....
Several years ago ,I was in our state association booth at a state championship game. In the next booth was a radio crew from the defensive team's town (ie.."homers") . The following play occurred :
(1) A's ball at A's 5;
(2) A1 fumbles, ball bouncing away @ A's 6;
(3) B1 tries to scoop it up on the run;
(4) B1 muffs ball into EZ;
(5) A2 recovers there;
(6) officials signal touchback.
Radio crew's response :
(1) "THAT'S A TERRIBLE CALL >:( >:(, THAT BAD CALL COSTS US TWO AND THE BALL >:( >:( !"
One of the state guys introduced me to them as "the rules guy" :-\. They wanted an explaination ???.
(2) I explained : " Once the ball goes into the end zone, it has to be one of three things. We all know it can't be a touchdown, as the wrong team had the ball. :-*. That leaves either a safety or touchback. It comes down to caused the ball to get there 8]. B1 could have fallen on the ball and it would be theirs, BUT he tried to pick it up on the run and muffed it into the end zone. If a teammate of his recovered it in there, it would have been a touchdown, but an opponent did for a touchback."
(3) Radio announcer : " So, there you have it, WE GOT SCREWED BY A REALLY BAD RULE hEaDbAnG !"
pi1eOn :puke: :puke: pi1eOn.
Great story Ralph and reveals the perfect way to process a play like this. I want to ask two questions if/when something like this happens. #1 who has the ball. #2 who caused the ball to get here? The answers to those two questions tell us what to do.
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In #6, I agree with NCwingman, and go against "WHEN IN QUESTION" in our manual which states : touchback or safety....touchback. If the ball is heading towards A's end zone, assume it would have made in if not muffed by B.
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Play 2. If the fumble never touches the ground before hitting B wouldn't it be a safety? The force would be the fumble.
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Play 2. If the fumble never touches the ground before hitting B wouldn't it be a safety? The force would be the fumble.
The result of Play #2 was a safety, as the mere touching of the ball by B's backside cannot cause a new force. You are correct, Skip, that a new force cannot be added to an ungrounded loose ball. A classic example is a blocked punt that then bounces back thru K's EZ = safety.
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Great story Ralph and reveals the perfect way to process a play like this. I want to ask two questions if/when something like this happens. #1 who has the ball. #2 who caused the ball to get here? The answers to those two questions tell us what to do.
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Absolutely, NFHS 2-13 "FORCE" is NOT a "Quick Read". It takes a little patience, concentration & understanding, especially Articles 2,3 &4, which when clearly understood, and remembered, answer a lot of potentially misleading questions.
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The first two plays have everything to do with the original force. In #1 the original force is provided by the kicker's kick. A muffed attempt to catch a kick in flight is NOT an impetus for a new force as described in this scenario. Perhaps if the ball was lying still or its original force from the first muff would clearly had not caused the ball to enter K's end zone that was then followed by another muff that then caused a new force to put the ball into K'd end zone, only then you can say this is a Touchback. In #2 the original force is from the ball carrier's fumble. So, #1 and #2 are Safeties. #3 is a Touchback.