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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: Ralph Damren on October 29, 2024, 07:25:34 AM
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SCENE : Last Saturday, two winless teams locked horns in farm country...
ACT I : K punts from K's 10; tR:oLl
ACT II : K2 knocks down R1, who is about to catch and return kick @K's 30 ^flag ^flag ^flag
ACT III : R2 scoops up bouncing K and returns it to ^good ^good;
ACT IV: you make the call..... :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR:
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I'll take a guess -- Since K's foul is before change of possession, R needs to decline it in order to keep the TD? It can't be carried over to the try or kickoff.
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I'll take a guess -- Since K's foul is before change of possession, R needs to decline it in order to keep the TD? It can't be carried over to the try or kickoff.
You nailed it, Dan, the KCI foul is excluded from the"tack-on" rule. See 10-4-2 EXCEPTION, where :...(other than kick catch interference)..was stated.
I treated it as a tack-on and tacked it on to the ensuing kickoff, per coach's request. hEaDbAnG :puke:
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You nailed it, Dan, the KCI foul is excluded from the"tack-on" rule. See 10-4-2 EXCEPTION, where :...(other than kick catch interference)..was stated.
I treated it as a tack-on and tacked it on to the ensuing kickoff, per coach's request. hEaDbAnG :puke:
Is there some logical reason why this exception exists? Seems to fly in the face of the "no free major fouls concept".
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Is there some logical reason why this exception exists? Seems to fly in the face of the no free major fouls concept.
I assume it's because KCI already has its own set of enforcement options. (but I understand your point for sure).
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Is there some logical reason why this exception exists? Seems to fly in the face of the no free major fouls concept.
NCAA has the same enforcement, and the logic is that KCI is not a ‘personal foul,’ rather, just otherwise legal contact at a time when no contact is permitted. Any other time, the contact would be legal. Of course, it can be escalated to a personal foul, if the contact involves striking, or targeting. In those cases, it would no longer be KCI, but a personal foul, and could be enforced at the dead-ball spot, on the try, on the succeeding kickoff, or at the succeeding spot in an extra period. But, as long as it is a ‘garden variety’ KCI, no carryover.
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On my way home the memory part of my brain finally came afive. Remembering the discussion around adding the 'tack-on' rule to fouls by K back in 2018, we were reminded that an awarded fair catch was already an option of choices to R and therefore not to be included .
I voted for the change, as I felt this prevent fouls by K to be declined on short kicks, allowing a cheap shot by Kgoing unpunshed.
I turned 79 last week, and while not quite as old as our President Biden , can still forget what I used to remember. hEaDbAnG
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NCAA has the same enforcement, and the logic is that KCI is not a ‘personal foul,’ rather, just otherwise legal contact at a time when no contact is permitted. Any other time, the contact would be legal. Of course, it can be escalated to a personal foul, if the contact involves striking, or targeting. In those cases, it would no longer be KCI, but a personal foul, and could be enforced at the dead-ball spot, on the try, on the succeeding kickoff, or at the succeeding spot in an extra period. But, as long as it is a ‘garden variety’ KCI, no carryover.
So if the receiver gets blown up, you treat it as PF hit on defenseless player instead of KCI? I like that.
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Ralph,
Did you have to beat a couple of crew members to get your way?
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So if the receiver gets blown up, you treat it as PF hit on defenseless player instead of KCI? I like that.
Well, for targeting, that takes forcible contact to the head-neck area, with an indicator (such as lowering/leading with head/shoulder, a launch, or a thrust. The contact could be violent, but as long as it isn’t targeting, or a striking action, it is just KCI.
For clarity, the description immediately above is for targeting on a defenseless player, and a player attempting to catch a kick is one type of a defenseless player. Additionally, targeting can be of the "spearing" variety, in which the attacking player makes forcible contact with an opponent - defenseless or otherwise - with the crown of his helmet, to any part of the opponent's body (not just head/neck area). That penalty, too, would be added to the end of the run/try/kickoff/succeeding spot.
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Ralph,
Did you have to beat a couple of crew members to get your way?
Just the U ,who had forgotten about the tack-on exception. I hadn't forgotten the tack-on exception BUT had forgot the KCI exception to the tack-on exception. pi1eOn