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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: blandis on November 11, 2024, 05:12:56 PM
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Philosophically speaking, chew on this scenario for a moment before responding. I know what the rules say and the Case Book doesn't exactly address this:
Play: There is 1:30 remaining in the 4th Quarter. Team A must score a Touchdown to win or they lose the game. They gain a 1st Down to Team B's 42-yard line when the game clock is stopped for the 1st Down. The clock then starts on the Referee's signal as the Umpire spots the ball and moves away. The Quarterback, from a position directly behind the Center but about 3-yards behind him, is in position to receive the snap. The snap is a bit of a turd, it goes slightly upwards from the Center's hand, it bounces on the ground 1-yard behind the Center. The Quarterback, without any delay or hesitation, then immediately gains possession and immediately spikes the ball to stop the clock. The Quarterback never muffed the snap and the ball touching the ground was not anything to do with the actions of the Quarterback. The ball was always immediately in front of the Quarterback and the action was done in one swift motion.
--Do you have Intentional Grounding, 5-yards from the spot of the foul and a Loss of Down with a Hot Clock on the RFP, or is this OK and the intention of the rule has been met by the Quarterback's actions?
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Philosophically speaking, chew on this scenario for a moment before responding. I know what the rules say and the Case Book doesn't exactly address this:
Play: There is 1:30 remaining in the 4th Quarter. Team A must score a Touchdown to win or they lose the game. They gain a 1st Down to Team B's 42-yard line when the game clock is stopped for the 1st Down. The clock then starts on the Referee's signal as the Umpire spots the ball and moves away. The Quarterback, from a position directly behind the Center but about 3-yards behind him, is in position to receive the snap. The snap is a bit of a turd, it goes slightly upwards from the Center's hand, it bounces on the ground 1-yard behind the Center. The Quarterback, without any delay or hesitation, then immediately gains possession and immediately spikes the ball to stop the clock. The Quarterback never muffed the snap and the ball touching the ground was not anything to do with the actions of the Quarterback. The ball was always immediately in front of the Quarterback and the action was done in one swift motion.
--Do you have Intentional Grounding, 5-yards from the spot of the foul and a Loss of Down with a Hot Clock on the RFP, or is this OK and the intention of the rule has been met by the Quarterback's actions?
See 7-5-2d Exception 1
which states the snap cannot touch the ground.
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See 7-5-2d Exception 1
which states the snap cannot touch the ground.
Do you still have a hot clock? 3-4-6?
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Do you still have a hot clock? 3-4-6?
3-4-3e states the game clock will start on the snap.
It will be the Referee's judgment per 3-4-6.
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Remember that the allowance to legally spike the ball is an exception to the IG rule. The offense has to “do it right”, or be liable for a IG penalty.
Your position that the bad snap had nothing to do with the QB’s actions is a red herring. Suppose that the QB and snapper do their jobs perfectly, but the OL/WRs don’t get set prior to the snap. Would you allow the spike?
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Our intent when passing the legal spike was to stop the clock ,not prevent a sack. The general feeling was that a muffed or grounded snap could lead the QB to spke for protection from such.
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The spike would be allowed, but the actions of the linemen and receivers not being set is an illegal shift for failing to be set prior to the snap.
In NCAA rules, this would become a false start, a foul that prevents the snap. This could also trigger a 10-second subtraction. That option does not exist in NFHS rules, so the only way A would be affected is by a 5-yard penalty.
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The spike would be allowed, but the actions of the linemen and receivers not being set is an illegal shift for failing to be set prior to the snap.
In NCAA rules, this would become a false start, a foul that prevents the snap. This could also trigger a 10-second subtraction. That option does not exist in NFHS rules, so the only way A would be affected is by a 5-yard penalty.
NFHS the spike is not allowed if the ball touched the ground.
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The spike would be allowed, but the actions of the linemen and receivers not being set is an illegal shift for failing to be set prior to the snap.
In NCAA rules, this would become a false start, a foul that prevents the snap. This could also trigger a 10-second subtraction. That option does not exist in NFHS rules, so the only way A would be affected is by a 5-yard penalty.
See the NCAA section for info.
Sorry. Got distracted by….WORK. OK, see the NCAA section now.
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NFHS the spike is not allowed if the ball touched the ground.
I was responding to bama_stripes. His example did not mention the ball striking the ground on the snap.
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I was responding to bama_stripes. His example did not mention the ball striking the ground on the snap.
My fault, sorry.