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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: Rich on November 16, 2024, 01:09:44 PM
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What's the status of this in the states where they've been either experimenting or have made the change to putting the U in the backfield?
Someone recently told me that this will be the NFHS mechanic in the next manual (2026), but I've seen no confirmation or even speculation of this.
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What's the status of this in the states where they've been either experimenting or have made the change to putting the U in the backfield?
Someone recently told me that this will be the NFHS mechanic in the next manual (2026), but I've seen no confirmation or even speculation of this.
We tried this for part of 1 season and realized after film reviews that holding calls dropped 50%. The number of visible missed holding calls was significant. NCAA also acknowledged that it doesn't work very well as they very quickly put the U back on the defensive side of the ball and now use mostly 8 man crews. Additionally the value of the U being at the ball during dead ball time cannot be overstated in keeping the BS down and reminding the big boys to play football. You lose that in a 5 man game with the U 15 yards behind the LOS. IMHO it simply does not work.
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We tried this for part of 1 season and realized after film reviews that holding calls dropped 50%. The number of visible missed holding calls was significant. NCAA also acknowledged that it doesn't work very well as they very quickly put the U back on the defensive side of the ball and now use mostly 8 man crews. Additionally the value of the U being at the ball during dead ball time cannot be overstated in keeping the BS down and reminding the big boys to play football. You lose that in a 5 man game with the U 15 yards behind the LOS. IMHO it simply does not work.
I'd say 80 to 90 percent of our holding flags come from the R. That said, the dead ball stuff is what concerns me the most. Thanks.
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We've done it in MN for like 5 years and I and every U who's worked with me hates it. Can't call disconcerting signals or handle the trash. Wings have to take on lineman downfield and Illegal Forward pass if QB crosses line (like they don't have enough to do on a pass play). It is a TERRIBLE mechanic for five man crews.
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We've done it in MN for like 5 years and I and every U who's worked with me hates it. Can't call disconcerting signals or handle the trash. Wings have to take on lineman downfield and Illegal Forward pass if QB crosses line (like they don't have enough to do on a pass play). It is a TERRIBLE mechanic for five man crews.
One of, if not the most, significant benefits of the Umpire behind the defensive LOS is the opportunity for private "constructive behavioral comments" with defensive linemen/linebackers between plays, that often help to avoid unnecessary &/or excessive behavior.
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The jury is in after about a decade of umpire-in-the-offensive-backfield, and it's as predicted by most of us umpires when it started:
Injury rates way down.
Missed holds way up.
I agree the loss of the ability to work with the defensive players between plays is a big miss. In our state, we keep our umpires in the defensive backfield where God intended them to be all along. ;D
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The jury is in after about a decade of umpire-in-the-offensive-backfield, and it's as predicted by most of us umpires when it started:
Injury rates way down.
Missed holds way up.
I agree the loss of the ability to work with the defensive players between plays is a big miss. In our state, we keep our umpires in the defensive backfield where God intended them to be all along. ;D
I’m curious about the actual injury rate for Umpires behind the defense. I’ve had my U knocked down a few times, but only once did he have to leave the game, and even then he was fine for the next week.
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I’m curious about the actual injury rate for Umpires behind the defense. I’ve had my U knocked down a few times, but only once did he have to leave the game, and even then he was fine for the next week.
In my 20 plus years as an umpire, I have been hit numerous times. Only once have been knock "silly" by a blindside hit, but after clearing my head continued to officiate. It looked really bad on film and my LJ said he thought I wasn't going to get up. More aches and pains from minor hits than I could count. My wife keeps telling me to retire because she is afraid I am really going to get hurt as I age, but I just don't think the risk is that great for "serious" injuries.
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I’m curious about the actual injury rate for Umpires behind the defense. I’ve had my U knocked down a few times, but only once did he have to leave the game, and even then he was fine for the next week.
In 20 years I've been knocked down, cleated, and had flying players slam into my legs and shins numerous times. It hurts, but I like playing hurt. Fortunately in two decades I've never been knocked out of a game.
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I was a U several years beore being promoted/demoted to R and feel your pains. yEs: I learned to read the guards as to what play was probably coming and did my best to stay our of the road. IMHO, moving the U to the backfield to keep R company ,in 4 & 5 man crews, would not provide good coverage for holds and such on running plays.
Accolades to GoodScout and Riffraft for performing like the Energizer Bunny and to Yankee Al for reminding us that, like a traffic cop P_S, an umpire can provide preventive officiating in lieu of ^flag /tickets P_S.
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Where is the rumor that this will be the new NFHS mechanic coming from? I know some states are doing it, but it is no where near a consensus and I think many people are STRONGLY against it. Plus I really wonder how much work has gone into a 2026 manual yet...
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Where is the rumor that this will be the new NFHS mechanic coming from? I know some states are doing it, but it is no where near a consensus and I think many people are STRONGLY against it. Plus I really wonder how much work has gone into a 2026 manual yet...
This is an off-year for the Manual Committee, while they still meet and discuss future suggestions for the print year, nothing final will happen. Remember, guys, the manual is only a guide not a mandate and each state may adjust/rewrite their own. Several states have had the U join the BJ under the pipes for several years and, IMHO, placing U in the backfield will probably go in that direction.
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The rumor is just that - a rumor.
There's no validity to it, and it may just be wishful thinking by those who want U's out of the defense - or offensive linemen hoping to soon get away with things.
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from experience....unless you have an umpire that is mobile, he is just another object for the R to avoid on runs to the umpire side
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The addition of a 5th official (BJ) to HS level officiating was/is a BIG coverage improvement, as would be the availability of an opposite deep official, on the other side, when circumstances/availability/permits. The Umpire, where currently located, is an integral piece of coverage in the highEST /most consistent area of traffic/activity. At the NCAA/NFL levels adding a CJ in the Offensive backfield is showing to provide additional coverage to the opposite side of the R's coverage responsibilities BUT NOT as a replacement to the Umpire's traditional area of responsibility, which remains unique and critical. Perhaps, some day, circumstances/situations at the NFHS level will allow for such expansion
However, for the time being, "When it a'int broke, don't fix it" is still usually good advice.
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"When it a'int broke, don't fix it" is still usually good advice.
It's good advice, but it's not the Rules Committee's motto. ;D
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The addition of a 5th official (BJ) to HS level officiating was/is a BIG coverage improvement, as would be the availability of an opposite deep official, on the other side, when circumstances/availability/permits. The Umpire, where currently located, is an integral piece of coverage in the highEST /most consistent area of traffic/activity. At the NCAA/NFL levels adding a CJ in the Offensive backfield is showing to provide additional coverage to the opposite side of the R's coverage responsibilities BUT NOT as a replacement to the Umpire's traditional area of responsibility, which remains unique and critical. Perhaps, some day, circumstances/situations at the NFHS level will allow for such expansion
However, for the time being, "When it a'int broke, don't fix it" is still usually good advice.
The NFL does not have the umpire on the defensive side of the ball.
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The NFL does not have the umpire on the defensive side of the ball.
High school teams don't have 350 lb linemen and tight ends that go 250 lbs and can run. No comparison at all. Additionally, the NFL U moves back to defensive side of the ball during key plays. Colleges added the U back in almost immediately after film review clearly showed a high percentage of LOS missed calls.
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At the NCAA D3 level, we have crews of 7 with the U in the backfield. U moves to the defensive side of the line of scrimmage for scoring kicks. The wing officials check for illegal forward pass and ineligible receivers downfield. L will hold the line of scrimmage until the ball crosses, H will also hold the line and monitor any inside receivers on his side running short routes and/or blocking.
The U can see false starts and holding from his position in the backfield. I have yet to see calls in my NCAA games that are missed because U was in the backfield. As for dead-ball malarkey, U comes up after the play ends to spot the ball. B will accordion in from the opposite side, so will F and S.
MPSSAA has mechanics for both a crew of 6 with the umpire in the traditional position and a crew of 6 with the umpire in the backfield in the most recent mechanics manual. I have seen traditional mechanics on all games, so I assume that is what most current umpires are familiar with.
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At the NCAA D3 level, we have crews of 7 with the U in the backfield. U moves to the defensive side of the line of scrimmage for scoring kicks. The wing officials check for illegal forward pass and ineligible receivers downfield. L will hold the line of scrimmage until the ball crosses, H will also hold the line and monitor any inside receivers on his side running short routes and/or blocking.
The U can see false starts and holding from his position in the backfield. I have yet to see calls in my NCAA games that are missed because U was in the backfield. As for dead-ball malarkey, U comes up after the play ends to spot the ball. B will accordion in from the opposite side, so will F and S.
MPSSAA has mechanics for both a crew of 6 with the umpire in the traditional position and a crew of 6 with the umpire in the backfield in the most recent mechanics manual. I have seen traditional mechanics on all games, so I assume that is what most current umpires are familiar with.
Alas/thankfully there is still a significant "learning curve" existing between NFHS and NCAA & NFL football, in addition to the availability of experience, and number, in/of game officials. What is necessarily "good for the goose", may not be as effective for the gander" either for players, or game officials. What is learned at one level can be developed at subsequent levels, both by players and officials. Lessons, habits, instincts learned at the current Umpire position, at youth, HS levels, not only serve Umpires well at those levels, but continue to serve, at the Umpire, as well as other positions, at higher talent levels.
"Dead ball malarky" is created and "enhanced" at lower levels, as are the skills necessary to effectively observe, and handle them effectively & responsibly. What Umpires experience behind the defensive line, is NOT, as consistently experienced and often, needs to be handled, at other positions. Subtle, often private, suggestions serve as effective means to avoid more serious infractions and interruptions.
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It's good advice, but it's not the Rules Committee's motto. ;D
In deference to Ralph, and in fairness, I should say that last spring the committee did get the message, and for a single year decided not to monkey with things.
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High school teams don't have 350 lb linemen and tight ends that go 250 lbs and can run. No comparison at all. Additionally, the NFL U moves back to defensive side of the ball during key plays. Colleges added the U back in almost immediately after film review clearly showed a high percentage of LOS missed calls.
I was only responding to the inaccuracy of the post I quoted.
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At the NCAA D3 level, we have crews of 7 with the U in the backfield. U moves to the defensive side of the line of scrimmage for scoring kicks. The wing officials check for illegal forward pass and ineligible receivers downfield. L will hold the line of scrimmage until the ball crosses, H will also hold the line and monitor any inside receivers on his side running short routes and/or blocking.
U is tolerable although not good with 7 man. Its not acceptable at all with 5. And high school officials can not be expected to do everything 200K a year NFL officials do. Its not realistic. Even NCAA went right back to U's and 8 man crews as soon as they could.
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Somehow D2 and D3 missed the memo, at least in my area.
In college, there is a rule that does not exist in high school. If the offense substitute, officials shut down the snap to allow the defense to substitute. A CJ has an easier time getting in the way of a potential snap than a U in the traditional position. Maybe this is why assigners who do not use 8 officials have moved the U to the backfield.
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Somehow D2 and D3 missed the memo, at least in my area.
In college, there is a rule that does not exist in high school. If the offense substitute, officials shut down the snap to allow the defense to substitute. A CJ has an easier time getting in the way of a potential snap than a U in the traditional position. Maybe this is why assigners who do not use 8 officials have moved the U to the backfield.
When "the Cat's away, the mice will play" no matter how may "other" cats are around the scene.
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What are you trying to say?
At the small college level, the safety factor and substitution issues are apparently enough of a reason to have the U in the backfield. However, I have seen the occasional club football game with the U in the traditional position.
I'm a BJ in college, so I have no dog in this fight. All I am saying that it is not.necessarily true that the U in the backfield will miss dead ball activity, as opposed to when the U is behind the defense.
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No, but it does require a level of mobility for Us and Rs to do it right. I'm not sure if this is a smart move for 5-person crews. But I wouldn't be sure unless and until we try it.
I'm an R, so I'm not going anywhere myself.
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All I am saying that it is not necessarily true that the U in the backfield will miss dead ball activity, as opposed to when the U is behind the defense.
Except that the NCAA cited that issue, along with the significant drop in holding calls as the major reasons that they moved the U back with the defense.
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Except that the NCAA cited that issue, along with the significant drop in holding calls as the major reasons that they moved the U back with the defense.
I think you may be missing, or ignoring, the inherent, consistent benefit the 'presence" of an official in the area behind the defensive line, has on the general behavior of the line play, at EVERY level.
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Except that the NCAA cited that issue, along with the significant drop in holding calls as the major reasons that they moved the U back with the defense.
When did this happen? In crews of 8, there is both a center judge in the backfield and the umpire in the traditional position. Right now, the CCA manual also has mechanics for both a traditional crew of 7 and the experimental crew of 7 with the U in the backfield. If the 2025 edition only includes the traditional crew of 7, I would be inclined to agree with you.
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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/conversation-82-umpire-in-the-backfield-mechanics/id1331551155?i=1000484562924
I've probably listened to it already but it's been a few years.