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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: NVFOA_Ump on December 31, 2024, 07:33:49 AM

Title: Result of The Play?
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on December 31, 2024, 07:33:49 AM

1st and goal at the B-7 yard line.  A12 throws a short pass toward A85 who is 5 yards deep team B’s endzone.  A85 is still inside the endzone but heading back toward the ball where he jumps high in the air trying to catch the pass.  The ball crosses the goal line, where 1 yard deep in the EZ. A85 catches the ball while still airborne.  A-85 lands with his foot first touching the ground in the field of play at the B-1 yd line where he is immediately tackled and is on the ground in possession of the ball at the B-3 yard line.


What do we have?
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: Ralph Damren on December 31, 2024, 10:31:18 AM
Ya' can't have possession until ya' return to our planet. The location of his feet aren't important, if the possessed ball was still breaking the goal line plane = ^TD
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: bama_stripes on December 31, 2024, 06:09:01 PM
I think you’re asking if this is a TD due to forward progress in the EZ.  If so, the answer is “No”.
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: dch on December 31, 2024, 07:33:37 PM
why not a TD ?
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: dammitbobby on December 31, 2024, 09:43:21 PM
Think of it this way: If it were a sideline, instead of the goal line, would this be a catch?

No, it wouldn't.   The same concept applies to catch/possession in the EZ - it has to be established prior to any progress being granted. You can't have a valid catch or possession since while he's in the air, possession/catch isn't finalized until he returns to Earth, and where he hits the planet (IB/OOB) determines catch/possession.
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: bama_stripes on January 01, 2025, 06:32:01 AM
why not a TD ?

See rules 2-4-1 (Catch) and 2-15-2 (Forward Progress).
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: dch on January 01, 2025, 12:15:30 PM
As I read Case Book 7.5.4 Situation G the play in question is a touch down.  The ball is possessed in the air and forward progress is in the end zone.  He is driven back in to the field of play and then completes the catch when he contacts the ground.  Possessing the ball and completing the catch are not the same thing.  Forward progress is given in the end zone the same as it would be at the 35 yard line (or anywhere in the field of play).
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: ElvisLives on January 01, 2025, 05:49:20 PM
DCH, being driven back into the field of play is different than the player flying back into the field of play on his own.
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: bama_stripes on January 02, 2025, 08:04:10 AM
As I read Case Book 7.5.4 Situation G the play in question is a touch down.  The ball is possessed in the air and forward progress is in the end zone.  He is driven back in to the field of play and then completes the catch when he contacts the ground.  Possessing the ball and completing the catch are not the same thing.  Forward progress is given in the end zone the same as it would be at the 35 yard line (or anywhere in the field of play).

The relevant case book play is 2.15.2, which is exactly on point.  No TD if he comes back on his own, TD if he is contacted and driven back.
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on January 02, 2025, 10:42:08 AM
DCH, being driven back into the field of play is different than the player flying back into the field of play on his own.


That's a mis-read of the case play.  Forward progress only applies when a player is driven back and or tackled by an opponent.  Forward progress never applies if there is no opponent contact.
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: sj on January 02, 2025, 12:04:30 PM
Imho, that case 2.15.2 (b) could be edited to clarify things a bit. Being “contacted” can mean at least a couple of different things, neither of which would result in a player being “carried.” So to word it by saying, “...while in the air he is contacted by B1 and he is carried out…,” seems confusing. There are other case plays in 7.5.4 that cover some of the other situations but it seems this one could be reworded. And then cover the same types of plays where the receiver is not downed after being contacted. It's a little thing but could help.
Title: Re: Result of The Play?
Post by: sj on January 02, 2025, 01:57:04 PM
As I read Case Book 7.5.4 Situation G the play in question is a touch down.  The ball is possessed in the air and forward progress is in the end zone.  He is driven back in to the field of play and then completes the catch when he contacts the ground.  Possessing the ball and completing the catch are not the same thing.  Forward progress is given in the end zone the same as it would be at the 35 yard line (or anywhere in the field of play).

7.5.4 G involves contact by a defender so is different than the original posted play

Here's is an example of 7.5.4 G that would be a score in both NF and NCAA. A couple of great replays that show everything.

https://youtu.be/njcoSC-VbYs?t=8618