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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: bama_stripes on August 11, 2025, 08:02:38 AM
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2025 Case Book, play 6.2. (paraphrased):
R returns K’s scrimmage kick for a TD and (a) during the kick, K commits a holding foul, or (b) during the runback, K commits a BBW foul.
In (a), the TD counts, and R may take the penalty ONLY on the try.
In (b), the TD counts, and R may take the penalty either on the try or the KO.
What’s the rationale behind this difference?
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2025 Case Book, play 6.2. (paraphrased):
R returns K’s scrimmage kick for a TD and (a) during the kick, K commits a holding foul, or (b) during the runback, K commits a BBW foul.
In (a), the TD counts, and R may take the penalty ONLY on the try.
In (b), the TD counts, and R may take the penalty either on the try or the KO.
What’s the rationale behind this difference?
NCAA guy here, but could it be because the BBW is a personal could?
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NCAA guy here, but could it be because the BBW is a personal could?
Agree that this is the likely reason, it's because since the personal foul is more significant/more serious (in theory), it grants the offended team more options in terms of how the penalty can be enforced. It helps highlight that 15 yard fouls carry more consequences than 5 and 10 yard fouls.
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A is a foul during the free kick and B is a foul during the scoring play. Personal foul is not the reason. Different enforcement spots. see rule 10-5
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2025 Case Book, play 6.2. (paraphrased):
R returns K’s scrimmage kick for a TD and (a) during the kick, K commits a holding foul, or (b) during the runback, K commits a BBW foul.
In (a), the TD counts, and R may take the penalty ONLY on the try.
In (b), the TD counts, and R may take the penalty either on the try or the KO.
What’s the rationale behind this difference?
It's because they're different rules.
a) Is the tack-on rule for kicks, which penalizes from the succeeding spot only.
b) Is the foul on a scoring play rule, which has always been try or kickoff enforcement. Same rule applies if say B intercepts and A commits BBW during the return for a TD.
I agree it's dumb and they should match. But the NFHS editors don't know how to make a rule.
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As I read the two situations, in (a) the foul occurs "during the kick" which means possession has not yet changed. In (b), it is "during the runback" which means possession has now changed.
If one reads the 10-4-2 EXCEPTION, it allows the basic spot to be the succeeding spot for fouls by K during a legal free or scrimmage kick down PRIOR TO THE END OF THE KICK WHEN K WILL NOT BE THE NEXT TO PUT THE BALL IN PLAY. The EXCEPTION gives the offended team the option to apply it on the try or ensuing kickoff.
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Thanks for the responses.
Bossman is correct about there being two different rules in play, and thus a different ruling for the two similar plays. For you NCAA guys, the type of foul has no bearing in FED rules. Mad Mike, note that the exception you quoted specifies succeeding spot enforcement, which means on the try only.
But I was trying to figure out the rules committee’s logic in having two different results, and how I could explain this to a coach on a Friday night with a straight face. (And that’s assuming I could even remember that there was a difference.)
Ralph, isn’t this something that we need to fix?
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But I was trying to figure out the rules committee’s logic in having two different results .......
Good luck with that! ;D
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Good luck with that! ;D
I'll try, when we added the exception to 10-4-2, it was to prevent dangerous fouls going uninforced if R was to take the play. Adding exceptions is not our favorite pastime and adding an exception to an exception was not deamed necessary. Back in 2009, when we added 8-2-2,3,4 and 10-5-1f, it was felt that an opposing player seening a TD about to happen could get away with a cheap shot and get away with a 1 1/2 yard penalty. Adding the upcoming kick off as a choice might discourage such.
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Thanks, Ralph. Perhaps the “easy-peasy ” solution is to remove that case play entirely.
I’d bet that most (if not all) crews would give the try or KO option anyway.