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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: NVFOA_Ump on December 09, 2025, 07:20:46 AM
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Team A, has 1st &10 from the B-18 yard line. A24 takes a toss left on a sweep and heads around the left end. As A24 crosses the LOS, A72 is flagged for holding B54 2 yards downfield. A72 continues to hold and “drags” B54 OB at the B-16 yard line. We have an inadvertent whistle before A72 “pancakes” B54 well OB drawing another flag. We have holding on A72, and a DB late hit UNR also on A72. Running back A24 is now in the EZ with a “TD”. What is the correct enforcement here and what rule reference(s) apply?
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I'll take a crack at it....Please correct me if I'm wrong
Holding will be enforced from B-16 resulting in 1st & 18 at B-26. Then the DB UNR will back them up an additional 15 resulting in 1st & 33 at B-41.
The inadvertent whistle typically would cancel any live ball fouls after the IW but deadball, nonplayer, and UNS fouls are still enforced. I'll have to dig for rule #s but wanted to throw this answer into the discussion.
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Assuming the runner was beyond the spot of the OH foul when the IW occurred, then Coach B will want to accept the penalty for the live ball foul for the OH and of course will accept the dead ball penalty for the UNR w/ A 1/33 @ B41
4-2-3-c and 4-2-3-d
If B declines the penalty for the OH then A could have the down replayed with only the UNR penalty enforced w/ A 1/25 @ B33.
The one thing in the question that seems to be unclear is where the runner was when the IW was blown. He couldn't have been in the EZ when the whistle was blown because the ball would already be dead and there would be no IW. But that would only matter as to where the penalty for the OH would be enforced from in this specific play.
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IMHO, 4-2-3d would cover this situation. We would need to know WHEN the'eager-tweeter' sounded off. IF after the OH, the live ball foul would take presidancer and be enforced. IF the IW came before the OH,the live ball foul would be forgotten.and A would probably ask to replay the down. In both situations, the dead ball foul would be enforced................The eager-tweeter would buy the first round of post game KoolAide. :o.
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Assuming the runner was beyond the spot of the OH foul when the IW occurred, then Coach B will want to accept the penalty for the live ball foul for the OH and of course will accept the dead ball penalty
Does it really matter if the runner was beyond or behind the spot of the hold when the IW occurred? B is going to accept the penalty regardless.
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Does it really matter if the runner was beyond or behind the spot of the hold when the IW occurred? B is going to accept the penalty regardless.
Yes, because that determines the enforcement spot of the foul. Since the live ball foul occurred beyond the line of scrimmage, it's enforced essentially following the old "all but one" principle. The IW ends the play and sets the end of the run, so if the runner was beyond the B-16 (spot of the foul) at the time of the IW, it's enforced from the B-16, otherwise it's enforced from the end of the run.
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Yes, because that determines the enforcement spot of the foul. Since the live ball foul occurred beyond the line of scrimmage, it's enforced essentially following the old "all but one" principle. The IW ends the play and sets the end of the run, so if the runner was beyond the B-16 (spot of the foul) at the time of the IW, it's enforced from the B-16, otherwise it's enforced from the end of the run.
Yes I understand that, sorry my response wasn't clear. I meant does it really matter as far as B accepting the penalty or not? B would accept the penalty regardless of where the runner was.
sj said "Assuming the runner was beyond the spot of the OH foul when the IW occurred, then Coach B will want to accept the penalty for the live ball foul for the OH and of course will accept the dead ball penalty". I was trying to point out that B would accept the penalty regardless of where the runner was at the time of the IW. The penalty would be enforced from either the B-16 if runner was at or beyond the B-16, the B-17 if runner was at B-17, or the B-18 if runner was at the B-18 or behind the line of scrimmage.
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Yes I understand that, sorry my response wasn't clear. I meant does it really matter as far as B accepting the penalty or not? B would accept the penalty regardless of where the runner was.
sj said "Assuming the runner was beyond the spot of the OH foul when the IW occurred, then Coach B will want to accept the penalty for the live ball foul for the OH and of course will accept the dead ball penalty". I was trying to point out that B would accept the penalty regardless of where the runner was at the time of the IW. The penalty would be enforced from either the B-16 if runner was at or beyond the B-16, the B-17 if runner was at B-17, or the B-18 if runner was at the B-18 or behind the line of scrimmage.
You're correct to say that B would always accept the penalty for the live ball OH penalty regardless of where the runner was. The way I was putting it had to do only with getting to a specific enforcement spot for the OH penalty in just one of different instances that could occur.
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You're correct to say that B would always accept the penalty for the live ball OH penalty regardless of where the runner was. The way I was putting it had to do only with getting to a specific enforcement spot for the OH penalty in just one of different instances that could occur.
I see what you mean, sorry I confused things a bit. All good.