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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on September 12, 2010, 11:56:16 AM
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Pretty tough call to make with the DB in press coverage. Looks like the WR did initiate the contact and "pushed" the DB outside and then went inside. I am not sure he gained an advantage with the pass over thrown. Don't think I would have made that call.
Just love the commentary remark that the contact took place within 5 yards! ^no
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Looks like most of the key contact was in the one-yard "chuck" zone - or at least the initial step or two from the LOS? I see no foul here, not in NFHS, not in Canadian.
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The fou did not occur at the LOS. it occurred 5 yards down field. The receiver used an arm bar against the defender.
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At the 48 (LOS @ 40) the WR appears to be reaching for the ball. is he using his elbow to arm bar the defender? I can not see that from this clip and the replay.
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The fou did not occur at the LOS. it occurred 5 yards down field. The receiver used an arm bar against the defender.
I don't see it.
Looks like most of the key contact was in the one-yard "chuck" zone - or at least the initial step or two from the LOS? I see no foul here, not in NFHS, not in Canadian.
What is the one yard chuck zone? A Canadian rule I'm guessing?
I'm going with no foul here.
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I'm just going to go ahead and say it-- this was not a good call at all. No way in hell you call that with press coverage.
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Since the ball was in the air, catchability rules apply. The pass was not catchable for either player, so the flag should not have been thrown or at least picked up.
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What is the one yard chuck zone? A Canadian rule I'm guessing?
I'm going with no foul here.
I'm going with my out-of-date recollection of NHFS/NCAA rules - that defenders are allowed to contact one yard downfield. If I'm wrong, then ignore me - and whatever you do, don't blame me for Celine Dion. We don't like her, either.
Either way, I have no foul, here.
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and whatever you do, don't blame me for Celine Dion. We don't like her, either.
LOL
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I've got nothing on either player and uncatchable ball. Neother player seemed to play the ball and neither player gained an advantage.
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The best news about this call was it was declined and therefore had no effect on the game.
Doesn't make it right, but it did no harm.
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Is the pass being a catchable a factor for OPI?
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Is the pass being a catchable a factor for OPI?
Per the latest NCAA Officiating Philosophies document no. An offensive pass receiver is prohibited from initiating downfield contact, downfield blocks and/or physically creating separation from a defender downfield on any play when a legal forward pass crosses the NZ. Only exceptions are when it's obvious that the the passer is legally grounding the ball out of bounds or into an area where there is no player.
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Per the latest NCAA Officiating Philosophies document no. An offensive pass receiver is prohibited from initiating downfield contact, downfield blocks and/or physically creating separation from a defender downfield on any play when a legal forward pass crosses the NZ. Only exceptions are when it's obvious that the the passer is legally grounding the ball out of bounds or into an area where there is no player.
I believe the philosophies document (and if it was so official, why isn't it in the rule book? Ask yourself that.) is not referring to ALL possible OPI. If the pass is thrown into an area where players from A and B might receive or intercept the pass and teh team A contact imopedes the Team B player, but pass is ruled uncatchable, no foul.
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I'd tend to agree with TXMike in that if the contact was "in a crowd" at the destination end of the pass but the pass is clearly uncatchable, we should be thinking real hard before we drop any flag. The clip here looks more like it could be the initial separation created earlier in the play before the pass was even in the air, and I believe that's the difference. Although this clip is not IMO a very good example of a potential OPI call.
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Wouldnt call that in eight grade game
^no ^no
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I don't see any OPI on this play. However, in general, I don't think one doesn't wait to call OPI until we see if the pass is catchable. If memory serves me, the offensive potential receivers are prohibited from initiating contact once they are more than one yard from the line of scrimmage. For example, if a receiver picks a defender - the flag comes out @ the time of the block and we don't care if the other offensive receiver entering the 'vacated zone' can catch the ball. Do you all agree? ???
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Uncatchability is not the same in OPI as DPI. However, the concept of an official flagging OPI and someone else then reporting posssible uncatchability situation is ok.
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This crew did not have a good night. Unfortunately for them they will get a few weeks off for a BBW call on a pass from a Scrimmage kick formation. I sure am glad my games are not on national TV for all to dissect and review.
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When the ball is in the air and the pass is uncatchable, there cannot be OPI.
See 7-3-8-b-3:
(It is not offensive pass interference:)
3. When the pass is in flight and two or more eligible players are in the area
where they might receive or intercept the pass and an offensive player in
that area impedes an opponent, and the pass is not catchable.
So the only interesting contact is the one immediately after the snap, and IMO that one is established by the defender who steps up to the receiver. And there is no separation or any other advantage gained, either. At the time the ball arrives, both players would have been in position to make a play, had the ball been catchable at all.
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Thanks KB, I had somehow missed that when I read over the rule earlier.
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:!#
Whats wrong with Celine Dion ?
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You're gonna need a couple of mental leaps for this, but Canada's relationship to Celine Dion works something like this:
Imagine if New Zealand were rather bigger (in population and land mass) and was the predominant cultural and sporting power down there (I know it's hard, but bear with me), the country that everyone else around the world immediately thought of when someone said "Australasia" (in fact, it'd probably be "Newzealasia"). Then you have to imagine that poor second-banana Australia had produced a middling female pop star (like, say, Dannii Minogue) who did a decent, bland, inoffensive album and who you then inflicted on the New Zealanders once you got bored with her. Except, as soon as she arrived she got a major song in a hit movie and was immediately beamed round New Zealand and the wider world as the face of Australian music (at the expense of several lesser-known but much more talented artists), making several ridiculously popular (and bland, and inoffensive, and boring) records over the next decade and generally being extremely famous, to the point where if you went to Auckland and said "name a famous Australian", 9 out of 10 blokes on the street would say "Dannii Minogue". At the same time, you're secretly quite proud that there's an Australian in New Zealand who made it as big as it's possible to make it; you just wish it could have been someone better.
It's not a perfect analogy by any means, but it'll do to be getting on with.
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This crew did not have a good night. Unfortunately for them they will get a few weeks off for a BBW call on a pass from a Scrimmage kick formation. I sure am glad my games are not on national TV for all to dissect and review.
I wish I was calling on TV every week!
When you get to this level, criticism is a part of it. Additionally, you better be good enough because there are thousands who are waiting for your spot who are good enough. You can't expect to stay on TV if you don't know the rules and properly apply them.
We get to learn from their mistakes which hopefully makes us all better. I don't think that officiating has ever been better than it is right now...and it's improving at every level as more and more officials have access to training like this.
Kudos TXMike...thank you for the untold hours you spend on your DVR and YouTube account. I am a better referee today because of your work.
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Kudos TXMike...thank you for the untold hours you spend on your DVR and YouTube account. I am a better referee today because of your work.
yEs: ^good :bOW tiphat:
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Osric - we pinch anything that is half good
Mel Gibson
[ :thumbup] Australian
[ ] American
^no
The Bee Gee's
[ :thumbup] Australian
[ ] American
^no
Russell Crowe
[ :thumbup] Australian
[ ] New Zealand
^no
Phar Lap
[ :thumbup] Australian
[ ] New Zealand
^no
Rupert Murdoch
[ ] Australian
[ :thumbup] American
yEs: and you can keep him