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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: TxGrayhat on October 02, 2010, 01:20:24 PM
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Game Friday Night at a Private TAAPS school.
3rd Quarter 41 to 7. Visitors on losing side asks if we can run the clock its 10:00 his team is getting it handed to em and he has a 2hr+ drive home. I ask Home Team H (winning) Coach he says yes so we start running it The visitors run a couple of plays then throws an incomplete pass. I wind it. Home Coach calls time out says that if the teams throws it and its incomplete he wants the clock to stop. Visitors punt. I set the ball ready and wind it. He doesn't like that. calls time out and said " I understand about running the clock and I wouldn't run the score up on anyone. But the clock cant run after an incomplete, while they are moving the chains, before we snap the ball after a change of possesion. I tell visitors Home coach wants normal timing visiting coach looks suprised and shakes his head in suprise Home team comes back on offense and goes into no huddle spread and starts airing it out deep passes. Home Team runs it up to 55 points. The Visitors were able to score twice. Every thing in me wanted to look the Home Coach in the Eye and Wind the Clock. If he wasn't trying to run it up he wouldn't have cared if the clock was running, he would have kept the ball on the ground.
I understand points scored is a factor in college and in district to a certain extent.
I remember the same school same coach a few years earlier. When this was a brand new program. They were getting it handed to them . I ran the clock for him.
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If coaches had any sense they would be refs, ;-)
TAPPS and UIL need to address these runaways and institute a formal rule that would take away any "choice".
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If coaches had any sense they would be refs, ;-)
TAPPS and UIL need to address these runaways and institute a formal rule that would take away any "choice".
Absolutely - this issue seems to be getting worse for some reason (running up score for no reason).
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I was very lucky to have good kids on the field. I know that some of the teams i cover. We would have had some of the " So yall wanna RUN IT UP huh..... Lemme see which one of your guys I can hurt".....
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Couldn't find a hold or block in the back during the Home team's last two touchdowns? I am sure that R was off the line, and you had an illegal formation.
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Couldn't find a hold or block in the back during the Home team's last two touchdowns? I am sure that R was off the line, and you had an illegal formation.
I prefer not to make things up and call things I did not see. I do hope the UIL adopts an official running clock.
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We stopped asking coaches for the most part. As officials, we know the feel of the game. There is a difference in a competitive 42 -7 game and a blowout at 42-7. We have an unspoken threshold of 35 points midway through the 3rd quarter. I think it puts both coaches on the spot to ask them. If they can blame us, it takes it off of them. The losing coach wants to avoid further embarrassment and doesn't have to look like a quitter so he doesn't argue, and the winning coach will usually understand that it's time to get the subs in and start focusing on next week.
We had this same team in Week 0 and he didn't say a word about the running clock--but again--we didn't ask for his permission.
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I prefer not to make things up and call things I did not see.
Completely agree. It's not our job to stop a team scoring, that's the opponents job. However, I have no problem with moving the game along as quickly as possible which minimises their opportunities to do so.
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After he called the second timeout I heard him say "Am I going to have to call all my time outs to make them stop running the clock".
Maybe they can let us go to a 40 second play clock if not allowing for a running clock. Spread offense the clock doesn't move.
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I worked 2 seasons in Pennsylvania 10 years ago. At that time they had a 35 point lead rule. If one team goes up by 35 points you go to a running clock. If opponent gets it back under 35 go back to regular clock. Wish we had that on Friday night. We had a 49-6 game at halftime. 66-12 final.
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Oddly enough, I had the opposite happen Saturday. Home team up by two points, gets a penalty that puts the ball on the visitor's one-yard line with five seconds left.
Clock stopped due to the penalty (Canadian rule).
Quarterback relays intent to kill the clock, even though the home team had averaged 3-4 yards on insides runs.
Yep, the leading team opted to surrender a sure-fire TD to kill the clock for a two-point win.
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He's got the win, so why risk an unnecessary injury? Smart Kid.
I'm waiting for the game where a team is up by 14 pts, has the ball 1&10 with 1:30 left and the opposition out of timeouts, and starts running the ball, and has their star RB's leg broken by their own OL falling on it.
Maybe then the coach will learn.
KB
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JV/ Freshman set on Saturday and the visiting Freshman team had just been decimated that week by team suspensions (academic deficiencies). At the end of the half the players they could muster were getting it handed to them. Their coach stops us at halftime and says "Just run it for the second half" (our state doesn't have modified timing rules until after the 2nd half kickoff). Running clock and the other team has their backups in, but still striving for scores. Do you give them kudos for having the backups in, but then take it away for throwing all those incomplete passes? :)
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I really wish we had a second half clock rule. Example if up at 35 at any point clock will run until deficit is back under 35.
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In MN we just got the running clock a couple years ago. 4th quarter only though when up by 35 points.
I think Iowa's rule is ideal. 35 points anytime second half and if you get up by 50 its over.
There is no good that comes from drubbing some team like that. Unless this coach has his least athletic players in and is still scoring, I put it on the coach. And if he's still calling passes that's just NO CLASS! Hopefully he'll get beat up that bad again soon and that team will remind him how it feels on the other sideline...
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I hate to reference youth football for anything on this site, but it might be appropriate here. I was doing a game two weeks ago where the visitors had 11 players and the home team had 12. It’s September in Texas and the teams combined for 1 sub. With all due respect to the UIL, I told the coaches before the game, “There is no need to call a timeout to give your kids water or a rest, just ask me for a water break whenever you want and I will give it to you without charging you a timeout.” Even with this, the kids were ready to quit before the first quarter was up.
At the end of the first quarter the visitors were down 19 – 0 and requested the clock run – no problem coach, UT v. UCLA is about to kickoff (clearly I didn’t miss much there…). I inform the home coach of this request, and he retorts “No, the clock automatically runs when we go up by 25 and I don’t want to run it before then.” Really? Well, you are an IDIOT. I am not a fan of phantom calls, but when he called a timeout with 1:04 left in the first half to try to score again I looked real hard for something to call. Luckily you don’t need to look too hard for a penalty in that league…
The visitors quit at the end of the 3rd quarter.
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Worse part is the home coach is probably proud of his "accomplishment"! What a POS!!!!
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My area doesn't have a running clock. Guys will generally run the clock when things get out of hand or when the losing coach asks to have it run. Typically this means not stopping for first downs and letting extra time run off at various times. Some guys even shave minutes. I don't like it most of the time, but the coaches don't usually say anything. One time a coach asked us not to run the clock because he had like 70 kids and wanted to let them play.
If the losing coach asks you to run it and you chose to, don't get other coaches involved. Do what you need to do to manage the game.
I personally don't support running the clock in violation of the rules, but many do.
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I worked 2 seasons in Pennsylvania 10 years ago. At that time they had a 35 point lead rule. If one team goes up by 35 points you go to a running clock. If opponent gets it back under 35 go back to regular clock. Wish we had that on Friday night. We had a 49-6 game at halftime. 66-12 final.
We now no longer go back to regular timing if the 35 point gap gets closed
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I don't know if I am opening a can of worms or not, but I would rather open it up here than with coaches. UIL has an exception in 6 man football a rule stating that if a team is 45 or more points ahead at end of first half or at anytime in the second half the game is over. I am not saying that games should not end, but may be the clock could become a running clock. At least UIL has something to build on, and this could be something they could be working on instead of riding our backs.
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If the lead is big enough, I don't ask, I wind. If they team way ahead doesn't like it, scratch me. Letting a team continue to run up the score accomplishes absolutely nothing.
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If the lead is big enough, I don't ask, I wind. If they team way ahead doesn't like it, scratch me. Letting a team continue to run up the score accomplishes absolutely nothing.
Does your referee group tell the parents that pay for these kids to play that they might not get a full game's worth when TexDoc (or others) is working?
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JR, you're missing the point. What purpose does it serve to allow a team to hang 60 points on another team? There are a lot more games in the season than just one. Letting one team demean another serves no purpose. Do you feel the same way about 6 man football with the 45 point rule?
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I'm not missing the point at all.
My point is that it should never be our decision. They must be a rule in place wrt running clocks. With no rule, then let it be.
It's simply not fair for one official to use a running clock with a lead of x, and another with a lead of y.
The powers that be should make a rule so that the officials are taken out of the decision making loop.
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I think that is what most of the folks that have weighed in from Texas have expressed interest in having.
I had a subvarsity game where the visiting coach really didn't want to be there, they were down 28-0 in the first quarter, at half he requested that the quarter length be changed from 10 to 8 min, and that the clock be running. Home team obliged his request and we obliged their wishes.
It would be nice though, since we already have a 45 pt mercy rule here in the state for 6-man, that they legislative body over athletics in Texas take the step to take these situations out of our hands entirely.
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JR, my job is to make the game 1. safe, 2. fair, 3. one that does not make a mockery of the game.
It is my decision, and I will continue to make it until I retire. I doubt many could really mount an effective argument against it.
If one team is ahead by 45 by the end of the 3rd quarter, keep them in bounds and keep the clock running as much as possible.
I had a game a few years ago where the final was 84 -10. We never stopped the clock from 2 minutes into the second half. No one complained. If the winning coach does complain, I think you appeal their sense of dignity. They usually understand.
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I don't want UIL screwing with it in Texas. What we have now works great and the old axiom "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" fits perfectly. We run the clock whenever we feel it will be best for the kids. Every game is different. What works in Week 3 might not be applicable in Week 9 due to injuries, playoff scenarios, etc. Most of the time, the losing coach will make mention to the HL that he'd appreciate it if we moved things along. But if he doesn't, we won't wait for him to ask. And if he does ask, the winning coach will just have to scratch us or take it up with the other coach after the game. We don't do this for coaches with screwed up egos...we do this for kids who want to have fun. Winners don't have fun winning by 70...and losers sure don't. Second and Third teamers get to play when the game is out of hand...enjoy the running clock and the playing time. Work harder in practice Monday - Wednesday and you'll be out on the field in the 1st quarter eventually.
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I don't want UIL screwing with it in Texas. What we have now works great and the old axiom "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" fits perfectly. We run the clock whenever we feel it will be best for the kids. Every game is different. What works in Week 3 might not be applicable in Week 9 due to injuries, playoff scenarios, etc. Most of the time, the losing coach will make mention to the HL that he'd appreciate it if we moved things along. But if he doesn't, we won't wait for him to ask. And if he does ask, the winning coach will just have to scratch us or take it up with the other coach after the game. We don't do this for coaches with screwed up egos...we do this for kids who want to have fun. Winners don't have fun winning by 70...and losers sure don't. Second and Third teamers get to play when the game is out of hand...enjoy the running clock and the playing time. Work harder in practice Monday - Wednesday and you'll be out on the field in the 1st quarter eventually.
yEs: yEs: yEs: :bOW :bOW :bOW tiphat: tiphat: tiphat:
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IMHO. if there isn't already a mercy rule in place, then let the blowouts happen. After a couple of 70 - 0 games, the league supervisors might be inclined to implement something rather than deal with the irate parents beating down their doors.
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Perhaps it's a regional thing, but it seems that most situations that try and get out of control seem to happen in "blow out" games. How well I handle a riot doesn't seem to be as important as how well I manage things to avoid one.
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How well I handle a riot doesn't seem to be as important as how well I manage things to avoid one.
Well said.
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How well I handle a riot doesn't seem to be as important as how well I manage things to avoid one.
I don't care how long anyone has been in this business: that's a helluva chunk of wisdom.
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Perhaps it's a regional thing, but it seems that most situations that try and get out of control seem to happen in "blow out" games. How well I handle a riot doesn't seem to be as important as how well I manage things to avoid one.
Well said.
I was once told (though in basketball) that when it hits the fan, something 3-5 minutes prior wasn't handled properly, which lead to it hitting the fan.
I think the same can be applied to football.
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I don't want UIL screwing with it in Texas. What we have now works great and the old axiom "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" fits perfectly. We run the clock whenever we feel it will be best for the kids. Every game is different.
I disagree. In Tennessee, a rule was adopted a few years back. 35 points, in the second half the clock runs until it gets below 35. Darn good rule, and it removes any option on the part of referee or teams. A few years back, one of our best white hats got called on the carpet by the state office for using a running clock in at 71-point game. Seems like a parent called the state office and complained.