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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TXMike on October 13, 2010, 02:26:34 PM
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Attached is the TASO filing. It was in State court but has now been temporarily moved to Fed court at UIL's request.
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Thanks, TxMike. I could not get it to post because my file was too big.
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All the action in Federal Court today and in the forseeable future is reference VOLLEYBALL - Am I reading this correctly?
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I read the whole thing and I don't see that Cooter. Volleyball is the first sport to be impacted, but the TRO is for all UIL registrations to be halted and the 1204 rules to be suspended until jury verdict.
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I read the whole thing and I don't see that Cooter. Volleyball is the first sport to be impacted, but the TRO is for all UIL registrations to be halted and the 1204 rules to be suspended until jury verdict.
That's correct. The lawsuit and TRO and Temporary Injunction are for the entire implementation of 1204 registration process. The volleyball mess is just the latest example of the UIL changing dates, and requiring a relatively quick decision from the Courts.
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I have located the federal court case. Apparently, the UIL has backed off its volleyball registration timeline, and as a result, the court denied the TRO request today as moot, because the UIL has agreed to hold off until a hearing on TASO's request for a preliminary injunction is heard on the 20th at 9:00.
Attached are the order denying the TRO request, and the order setting the hearing.
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So the UIL doesn't really have to do anything different. They can back off their October 13 deadline in word only...the "wink-wink" is in full effect.
Judges HACK me off...they quit thinking for themselves when they are issued the robe.
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It's a start. Let's see what happens on the 20th. For those sports that allow UIL to pick their officials in post season play, it will be near impossible for the court to force them to choose anyone who is not UIL-registered (nor should they). But this does mean schools can still use "non UIL officials" for the time being.
Why don't the coaches in those sports lobby their AD's and Superintendents to get UIL out of the selection process? They can just point ot football and ask for the same latitude football coaches have.
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So the UIL doesn't really have to do anything different. They can back off their October 13 deadline in word only...the "wink-wink" is in full effect.
Judges HACK me off...they quit thinking for themselves when they are issued the robe.
Don't blame the judge. The parties made an agreement to keep the status quo on registration until a hearing. That is all that could have been granted in that request anyway. Judges are not supposed to rule unless they have to. Let's wait and see what happens on the 20th. I'm just very happy the Court has given us a hearing so quickly and given us 1/2 day on his docket on such short notice.
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Any news on the court today?
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Still going on from what I heard. Decision probably in a few days.
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Any news on the court today?
morning went well, TASO's 1st two hours were well represented. Judge broke for 2 hour recess to come back at 2 pm. They should be finishing up pretty soon.
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Still going on from what I heard. Decision probably in a few days.
Just heard the Nov 1 deadline is now Dec 1, but I wasn't there for the afternoon part and I'm sure there are more specific details to come.....but if you're like me and the pins and needles aren't comfortable to sit on, this is what I know.
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Probably for another hearing after end of regular season. But for now it is business as usual.
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But the UIL made it sound so important to have registration on Nov 1. I guess it really wasn't all that important.
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The judge had the line of the day in reference to Mr. Timmons concerning the email Mr. Timmons send in which he stated he would not send TASO any rulebooks until after the hearing. The judge stated this was "hopelessly childish."
The second line of the day belonged to Dr. B., when he stated with a straight face that he had seen snippets of Youtube Tony and in the same breath claimed the items were taken out of context yet claiming he had never seen it or heard it when Mr. Timmons eloquently stated that uil chapters would be given preference. How can something that has never seen or heard be taken out of context?
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So I'm confused. Did the UIL move the date back on their own, or did the judge tell them to do it. If they did it on their own, why? To avoid disaster because the big chapters are not blinking? Why did Texas Tony suddenly do the Two-Step?
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Anyone know the back-story on the b-ball rulebooks? What was the deal?
As for Dr B...if anyone was taking things "out of context" it would have had to be him since he only saw pieces of the video and not the whole enchillada IN CONTEXT.
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Texas Tribune update:
http://www.texastribune.org/texas-education/university-of-texas-system/judge-delays-deciding-on-referee-lockout/
Judge Delays Deciding on Referee Lockout
by Julian Aguilar
October 20, 2010
A federal judge on Wednesday declined to rule on a request for an injunction filed by a group of high school sports officials seeking to prevent what they call a government takeover of an independent contracting agency.
The Texas Association of Sport Officials, or TASO, filed suit against the University Interscholastic League after the latter amended its rules to make registration with the agency mandatory for all high school sports officials seeking to officiate athletic contests under its purview. The officials were given a November 1 deadline to comply, which some referees said was an attempt at strong-arming them to register or risk losing high-profile assignments the last week of the high school football season and during the playoffs. The UIL is represented by the Texas Attorney General’s office
U.S. District Judge Lee Yeakel delayed ruling on the injunction, and instead raised the issue of whether or not the federal courts had the jurisdiction to preside over the case.
“However I rule I am going to create chaos. The question is do I grant chaos with or without jurisdiction,” said Yeakel.
After more than five hours both sides came to agreement where the attorney general’s office will file a motion for dismissal based on jurisdiction by Oct. 29. TASO has until Nov. 8 to respond and a hearing that will ultimately decide the issue is scheduled Nov. 10. If the injunction is denied the Nov. 1 registration deadline is pushed back to Dec. 1
When asked why the judge brought up the issue over jurisdiction, TASO attorney Matthew Jones said it was a “good question.”
“My thoughts are the judge was inclined to grant it, he just wanted to be sure he had the jurisdiction to do so,” he said. Attorneys with the Texas Attorney General’s office declined to comment outside of the courtroom.
After the rule change TASO alleged in court filings that the UIL was attempting to “take over, tax, oversee and regulate the occupation of sports officiating in the State of Texas” outside of its authority and in violation of the law. The UIL responded that the move is aimed at streamlining communication with the state’s officials and “to complete a short ‘officials compliance program’ to see to it that they have at least working knowledge of the constitution and the contest rules within the UIL.”
The ruling on Wednesday was anti-climactic after testimony in court that alleged the UIL was purposely withholding information from TASO — specifically new rule books for two varsity sports and an incident report following the death of an athlete this year — until after Wednesday's hearing. The testimony even prompted Yeakel to say the UIL’s actions “smacked to [him] of being almost helplessly childish.”
After the decision Jones said it was “like waiting all day for a punt.”
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Anyone know the back-story on the b-ball rulebooks? What was the deal?
As for Dr B...if anyone was taking things "out of context" it would have had to be him since he only saw pieces of the video and not the whole enchillada IN CONTEXT.
TASO via Mr. Fitch in an email, asked for a schedule for delivery of the rulebooks from Mr. Timmons. Mr. Timmons told Mr. Fitch that Mr. Fitch would have to wait until after the 20 October 2010 court date to get his answer.
Mr. Timmons also refused to send TASO the incident report from the unfortunate player death. Mr. Timmons refused until the uil could "be assured of his (Mr. Fitch's) support of the uil registration."
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Anyone know the back-story on the b-ball rulebooks? What was the deal?
As for Dr B...if anyone was taking things "out of context" it would have had to be him since he only saw pieces of the video and not the whole enchillada IN CONTEXT.
My understanding: UIL has been receiving (buying at cost) NF rule books from UIL for years for sports other than football (since we use NCAA). Suddenly, last year, the UIL added $2 per rule book to make a little profit. (I wonder if they paid the sales tax?). Why did the UIL do this? Guess. This year, the UIL boys said they were holding on the rule books until after the hearing (today). When this was brought up in court, the judge made his statement about TT being childish. Yes, that was an accurate assessment.
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The judge said a whole lot of nothing. Is the date Nov 1 or Dec 1?
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But the UIL made it sound so important to have registration on Nov 1. I guess it really wasn't all that important.
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My educated guess is that the UIL is now in a "waffle mode" because they now forsee the certainty of the issuance of the restraining order by the Austin federal court and have so voluntarily informed the court, "Hey! To show you what 'salt of the earth' that we are, we'll just have you push that registration deadline back a month, your Honor, and in effect we'll just go ahead and make all of the TASO officials and their leadership happy by throwing them a few crumbs; the superintendents and administrators happy, the playoff coaches happy, and Texas high school football fans, in general, happy(excepting Ornery1, of course, who will still have to be somewhat patiently PO'd). But we'll just go ahead and keep Playoff Weeks 4-6 just for our UIL Registered Officiating Brethren and give them all of the "plum games" and IR Duties! Coaches: don't even think of bothering in picking a TASO crew who you can feel will do you a good job; we have a specially selected UIL crew just for you! And never mind if they haven't ever seen a football game before, they were able to complete and pass the UIL registration tests only after 7 or 8 tries. Your crew chief is excellent; it only took him 3 times to pass it! And you know what? They've all so graciously agreed to work your games for the tidy sum of $100.00, inclusive of round-trip mileage and meals! Now these officials may end up having to drive to the Valley from Dallas or Amarillo, but they've licked our boots and stooped and bowed to us by being such nice guys and volunteering to sleep in their cars. Coaches: You are just going to be so thrilled with our little arrangement! And administrators: don't even bother counting the playoff game gate or the money: we'll do all that for you and just mail you a check for what we feel would be your fair share! After all, we take an immeasurable amount of pride in doing this just for the kids and nobody else! :o Wink-Wink/Blink-Blink!" z^
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"Mr. Timmons also refused to send TASO the incident report from the unfortunate player death. Mr. Timmons refused until the UIL could "be assured of his (Mr. Fitch's) support of the UIL registration."
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From a favorite pre-school alphabet book: T is for "Tool!"
Now it's all too apparent that the real "Tool" is :!# Timmons! How absolutely pathetic! UIL: Just how low can you go? z^
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The judge said a whole lot of nothing. Is the date Nov 1 or Dec 1?
December 1st is new day. Both sides stated in court, and the uil agreed that no preferential treatment for uil officials woudl be offered.
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"Mr. Timmons also refused to send TASO the incident report from the unfortunate player death. Mr. Timmons refused until the UIL could "be assured of his (Mr. Fitch's) support of the UIL registration."
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From a favorite pre-school alphabet book: T is for "Tool!"
Now it's all too apparent that the real "Tool" is :!# Timmons! How absolutely pathetic! UIL: Just how low can you go? z^
Hopelessly childish according to the judge.
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The way the article reads, if the TASO injunction is denied (which could occur on or about Nov 10), then the new deadline is Dec 1. If, however, the injunction is granted, there is NO deadline and the whole registration issue is moot as it will not be required at all. Bottom line, earliest we will be "forced" to register is Dec 1
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The way the article reads, if the TASO injunction is denied (which could occur on or about Nov 10), then the new deadline is Dec 1. If, however, the injunction is granted, there is NO deadline and the whole registration issue is moot as it will not be required at all. Bottom line, earliest we will be "forced" to register is Dec 1
That is the way it was/is understood here in Austin to my knowledge. and, on the "hopelessly childish" statement - if we could've done flying chest bumps in the courtroom, we would've!!!!!javascript:void(0);
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But that would have been "hopelessly childish" of you.... LOL
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But that would have been "hopelessly childish" of you.... LOL
yep, and it would've been worth it........to see the looks on the faces.... yep...... ^good
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You two are having too much fun....... ;D
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Does the new pay scale go into effect Nov. 1 or is that backed up too?
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Does the new pay scale go into effect Nov. 1 or is that backed up too?
The new pay scale is on hold till amended 1204 is reality. According to Dr. B., the schools cant budget right now for officials, but with a 30% increase they will be able to. Cant quite follow that logic...
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The judge had the line of the day in reference to Mr. Timmons concerning the email Mr. Timmons send in which he stated he would not send TASO any rulebooks until after the hearing. The judge stated this was "hopelessly childish."
The second line of the day belonged to Dr. B., when he stated with a straight face that he had seen snippets of Youtube Tony and in the same breath claimed the items were taken out of context yet claiming he had never seen it or heard it when Mr. Timmons eloquently stated that uil chapters would be given preference. How can something that has never seen or heard be taken out of context?
T getting called out by the judge in court is priceless.
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T getting called out by the judge in court is priceless.
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With the judge's commentary on the :!# Dancing Monkey's "hopelessly childish" actions toward TASO, coupled with the tiphat: Good UIL Dr.'s positive commentary on the Timmon's Youtube shuffle, it no doubt had to create just a minute amount of prejudice on the part of the judge. After the events in his Federal Courtroom in Austin yesterday, I can't help but think that Judge Yeakel might now actually see what it is that he's getting to deal with! Now that's what's priceless! z^
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I noticed from an article about the Judge that he is a big sports fan. He has season tickets to UT Football and Baseball. He also has season tickets for UT Basketball but says that basketball is just something to do fill time between Football and Baseball seasons!
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What I find entertaining is the fact that TASO money (members' money) is being used for an attorney. Meanwhile, the UIL is represented by the Texas Attorney General, meaning our taxes are paying that bill....
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What I find entertaining is the fact that TASO money (members' money) is being used for an attorney. Meanwhile, the UIL is represented by the Texas Attorney General, meaning our taxes are paying that bill....
Remember, they are with the government, they are here to help.............................................. >:(
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What I find entertaining is the fact that TASO money (members' money) is being used for an attorney. Meanwhile, the UIL is represented by the Texas Attorney General, meaning our taxes are paying that bill....
That is really not a problem because all the UIL's attorney are salaried employees, so it is not really adding anything to the budget. These people get paid their civil service salary whether spending there time on this lawsuit or some other matter, or just staring out the window.
I prefer to think of it as making them work for my tax dollars (sales tax in this case, as opposed to income tax).
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I really wonder just what line of BS these school folks have been given by the UIL. This AD should already know there is a set pay scale in place now so perhaps he is thinking the UIL will give him a set ganme fee for varsity football also? ? ?
From a Houston TV station website: http://www.khou.com/sports/high-school/UIL-referee-dispute-threatens-to-cancel-high-school-football-playoffs--105395408.html
"We can't negotiate with every single individual (referee)”, said Ed Warken, the Galena Park Independent School District athletic director. “There has to be some kind of set pay scale, so we can budget."
Athletic directors from local districts met Wednesday to discuss the issue. They said it was very unlikely the games would be cancelled.
"Whether we get (the referees) here locally, or go other areas of the state, we will move forward and get officials for our games," Warken said.
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I really wonder just what line of BS these school folks have been given by the UIL. This AD should already know there is a set pay scale in place now so perhaps he is thinking the UIL will give him a set ganme fee for varsity football also? ? ?
"We can't negotiate with every single individual (referee)”, said Ed Warken, the Galena Park Independent School District athletic director. “There has to be some kind of set pay scale, so we can budget."
All part of the uil plan - confuse the issue and make it seem like we are against the pay scale, even when in court TASO agreed with the pay scale. I believe the uil has hired the Iraqi propaganda minister to run their smear, I mean, communications plan.
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I really wonder just what line of BS these school folks have been given by the UIL. This AD should already know there is a set pay scale in place now so perhaps he is thinking the UIL will give him a set ganme fee for varsity football also? ? ?
From a Houston TV station website: http://www.khou.com/sports/high-school/UIL-referee-dispute-threatens-to-cancel-high-school-football-playoffs--105395408.html
"We can't negotiate with every single individual (referee)”, said Ed Warken, the Galena Park Independent School District athletic director. “There has to be some kind of set pay scale, so we can budget."
Athletic directors from local districts met Wednesday to discuss the issue. They said it was very unlikely the games would be cancelled.
"Whether we get (the referees) here locally, or go other areas of the state, we will move forward and get officials for our games," Warken said.
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It appears that the UIL, Supes, AD's, and School Administrators are all so vociferously complaining about not being able to "budget" for officiating without something being done to officiating fees in order to achieve those ends.. It is all too apparent that in order to accomplish that, that there would have to be the abolition of the gate fee structure as well as round trip mileage for officials. If the UIL ends up persevering in this matter, then it will only be a matter of days before 1204 will be reworded to accomplish those ends. Translation: Like basketball, gate and mileage go away and a flat fee for all UIL varsity football games immediately goes into effect. The UIL basketball officials paid a $50.00 UIL Registration fee: Now the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and his :!# Dancing Monkey say that's it's absolutely free for football. Does that mean that they are going to refund those UIL Registration fees to basketball and the other sports? Likely not! If any of you UIL basketball people get a refund check back from the Manor Road Crowd, please let us know, where I can go into cardiac arrest! Bottomline: the UIL will have the potential to reap a minimum of an additional $500K alone just from UIL Registration Fees/Taxes.
So when a given football game draws a megacrowd, the officials will get considerably less than a C-Note for all their travel time, pregame, the game itself, postgame, and the trip back home, all for the aforementioned paltry sum. The UIL will take it's 15-25% of the gate receipts (not to even mention any possible TV/radio revenue) before expenses, leaving the remainder to the competing school districts to divy up only after taking care of the game expenses. Under the UIL Plan, what used to have to be paid out as gate-receipt revenues and round-trip mileages to the officials would now become attractive windfalls to the UIL and to the school districts.
Revenuewise, the UIL makes out like a bandit, the school districts finish in second place, and the officials will be dragging up the rear, and the former two entities live happily ever after!. Trust me in saying that if it were absolutely possible, the UIL would get us to officiate for free, or maybe for a comped UIL trinket or two! The sad fact of the matter is that if they are ever successful in prevailing in this lawsuit with TASO, that is exactly what is going to happen! z^
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All part of the uil plan - confuse the issue and make it seem like we are against the pay scale, even when in court TASO agreed with the pay scale. I believe the uil has hired the Iraqi propaganda minister to run their smear, I mean, communications plan.
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Looks as though we'll get to start seeing the parade of UIL/Texas School District "Baghdad Bob's" who will be fervently waving the UIL banner and saying that if they can't get registered UIL officials, then they might just have to go to the far reaches of the state in order to bring the "Registered's" in to work their games! Well, when they finish working their games, maybe they can stick around long enough to help the :!# Dancing Monkey in his announced task of having to go "door-to-door" in trying to procure an adequate number of football official trainees to call all of those "official-less" games! z^
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^flag
It appears that the UIL, Supes, AD's, and School Administrators are all so vociferously complaining about not being able to "budget" for officiating without something being done to officiating fees in order to achieve those ends.. It is all too apparent that in order to accomplish that, that there would have to be the abolition of the gate fee structure as well as round trip mileage for officials. If the UIL ends up persevering in this matter, then it will only be a matter of days before 1204 will be reworded to accomplish those ends. Translation: Like basketball, gate and mileage go away and a flat fee for all UIL varsity football games immediately goes into effect. The UIL basketball officials paid a $50.00 UIL Registration fee: Now the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and his :!# Dancing Monkey say that's it's absolutely free for football. Does that mean that they are going to refund those UIL Registration fees to basketball and the other sports? Likely not! If any of you UIL basketball people get a refund check back from the Manor Road Crowd, please let us know, where I can go into cardiac arrest! Bottomline: the UIL will have the potential to reap a minimum of an additional $500K alone just from UIL Registration Fees/Taxes.
So when a when a football game draws a megacrowd, the officials will get considerably less than a C-Note for all their travel time, pregame, the game itself, postgame, and the trip back home, all for the aforementioned paltry sum. The UIL will take it's 15-25% of the gate receipts (not to even mention any possible TV/radio revenue) before expenses, leaving the remainder to the competing school districts to divy up only after taking care of the game expenses. Under the UIL Plan, what used to have to be paid out as gate-receipt revenues and round-trip mileages to the officials would now become attractive windfalls to the UIL and to the school districts.
Revenuewise, the UIL makes out like a bandit, the school districts finish in second place, and the officials will be dragging up the rear, and the former two entities live happily ever after!. Trust me in saying that if it were absolutely possible, the UIL would get us to officiate for free, or maybe for a comped UIL trinket or two! The sad fact of the matter is that if they are ever successful in prevailing in this lawsuit with TASO, that is exactly what is going to happen! z^
I think thats a non sequitur. Absent all this UIL takeover nonsense, there is nothing stopping the UIL from instituting a flat rate fee.
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We (TASO) would argue that our influence with UIL would prevent this. If there is no TASO there is nobody speaking on our behalf.
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It appears that the UIL, Supes, AD's, and School Administrators are all so vociferously complaining about not being able to "budget" for officiating without something being done to officiating fees in order to achieve those ends..
I heard that line in court Wednesday, about not being able to budget. Bottom line it's a bunch of Barbara Streisand. You know your stadium holds 8000 seats, you can budget for everything associated with that, if you can't you shouldn't have built the stadium. If you can budget for an 8K seat stadium then the only possible answer to your complaint that you can't budget is that you don't understand the definitions of "budget" "Accruals" and "Actuals". None of those lack of understandings allows for the "cop out" that is "we can't budget....." TASO is not your scapegoat for having to do your job!!!!
2nd note, I heard the good Dr. say that the schools wanted to know who was working their games. Really? You get my personal information to no end. You have my home address, my social security number, my charge for your game, what else do you want to know?
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As a sitting board member of a school district, it makes me cringe when I hear an AD or Superintendent say they can't do their budget because of too many financial unknowns in dealing with officials. I don't care how large or small the district is, it's an easy matter to budget for officials. I have been on our district's budget committee for the last 4 years. I know exactly what the officials that work for our district, academic and athletic, have been paid for the last 4 years. I know with some amount of certainty what the gate will be for every athletic event based on historical information and barring weather events for outdoor activities. The AD's and Superintendents who continue to say it's too difficult to budget for officials are either too lazy or not intelligent enough to be at the job position they are in.
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As a sitting board member of a school district, it makes me cringe when I hear an AD or Superintendent say they can't do their budget because of too many financial unknowns in dealing with officials. I don't care how large or small the district is, it's an easy matter to budget for officials. I have been on our district's budget committee for the last 4 years. I know exactly what the officials that work for our district, academic and athletic, have been paid for the last 4 years. I know with some amount of certainty what the gate will be for every athletic event based on historical information and barring weather events for outdoor activities. The AD's and Superintendents who continue to say it's too difficult to budget for officials are either too lazy or not intelligent enough to be at the job position they are in.
Trending and tracking is a beautiful thing ain't it.
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As a sitting board member of a school district, it makes me cringe when I hear an AD or Superintendent say they can't do their budget because of too many financial unknowns in dealing with officials. I don't care how large or small the district is, it's an easy matter to budget for officials. I have been on our district's budget committee for the last 4 years. I know exactly what the officials that work for our district, academic and athletic, have been paid for the last 4 years. I know with some amount of certainty what the gate will be for every athletic event based on historical information and barring weather events for outdoor activities. The AD's and Superintendents who continue to say it's too difficult to budget for officials are either too lazy or not intelligent enough to be at the job position they are in.
Exactly Dr.G! If they cannot budget for something this easy, they need to find another job.
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As a sitting board member of a school district, it makes me cringe when I hear an AD or Superintendent say they can't do their budget because of too many financial unknowns in dealing with officials. I don't care how large or small the district is, it's an easy matter to budget for officials. I have been on our district's budget committee for the last 4 years. I know exactly what the officials that work for our district, academic and athletic, have been paid for the last 4 years. I know with some amount of certainty what the gate will be for every athletic event based on historical information and barring weather events for outdoor activities. The AD's and Superintendents who continue to say it's too difficult to budget for officials are either too lazy or not intelligent enough to be at the job position they are in.
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Well said, Sir! And as officials, we certainly appreciate your candor and forthrightness with the officiating as well as the Texas school administration community. Working with administrators like yourself is definitely like taking a deep breath of fresh air. I only wish that there were more caring and honest administrators like yourself in the state of Texas! z^
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As a sitting board member of a school district, it makes me cringe when I hear an AD or Superintendent say they can't do their budget because of too many financial unknowns in dealing with officials. I don't care how large or small the district is, it's an easy matter to budget for officials. I have been on our district's budget committee for the last 4 years. I know exactly what the officials that work for our district, academic and athletic, have been paid for the last 4 years. I know with some amount of certainty what the gate will be for every athletic event based on historical information and barring weather events for outdoor activities. The AD's and Superintendents who continue to say it's too difficult to budget for officials are either too lazy or not intelligent enough to be at the job position they are in.
Dr. G - 2 questions if you don't mind:
1 - What percentage of a school's athletic budget is officiating?
2 - How often do you think schools pay honestly according to 1204? I feel like I'm being shorted according to 1204 almost all the time. I mean its nice getting a check for $120 (especially since I'd work the game for free), but when the announced crowd is 8,000 it makes me wonder.
Thanks
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1. We are one of the smallest 3A schools in the state. Our District has an $11 million budget. Of the $11 million, $24,000 is budgeted for officials. The last 2 years the district has paid out just under $21,000 to officials in all sports. It's just under 2% of the budget.
2. I can only speculate based on my own game checks. In my opinion I think most schools just estimate a number or use the walk-up and pay that. I know that I have personally talked with our Superintendent and Business Manager about the way the pay for officials is figured at our District. I wanted to make sure that season and pre-purchased tickets are also factored into the gate . We have instituted very tight controls on money so as to know exactly what moneys we have received so that employees can't walk off with a little extra pay.
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So based on your post it is anecdotal evidence that "budgeting for officials" is a somewhat bogus point.
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I think that if you looked at most school districts budgets for officials by schools playing sports, they would somewhat mirror ours.
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I would bet there is much more variability in an ISD's transportation budget due to fluctuating fuel prices.
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1. We are one of the smallest 3A schools in the state. Our District has an $11 million budget. Of the $11 million, $24,000 is budgeted for officials. The last 2 years the district has paid out just under $21,000 to officials in all sports. It's just under 2% of the budget.
Not a big detail, but officials are only about 0.2% of your budget.
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Well it kinda is a big deal because that is really a small part of the budget and if schools cannot budget for officials then they are pretty inept!
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The Galena Park ISD (where we got the quote from): http://www.galenaparkisd.com/budget/documents/20CF4A~1.pdf
They have 165,000,000 in revenue and spend 3,700,000 on ALL co-curricular/extracurricular (obviously a huge amount of that is NOT officiating fees). That equals 2% of their entire budget. i can only imagine what miniscule amount of that 3,700,000 is spent on officiating fees
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The Galena Park ISD (where we got the quote from): http://www.galenaparkisd.com/budget/documents/20CF4A~1.pdf
They have 165,000,000 in revenue and spend 3,700,000 on ALL co-curricular/extracurricular (obviously a huge amount of that is NOT officiating fees). That equals 2% of their entire budget. i can only imagine what miniscule amount of that 3,700,000 is spent on officiating fees
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Haven't worked over there at GPISD in a few years but have been drawing those two schools on the road. But the reports that we're getting is that with rare exception, a working official will get a $90.00 check, regardless of the size of the crowd; and two of the crew members will be extended portal-to-portal mileage. But the GPISD Stadium football officials locker room is really tough to beat, ranking right up there with the best of them! z^
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Haven't worked over there at GPISD in a few years but have been drawing those two schools on the road. But the reports that we're getting is that with rare exception, a working official will get a $90.00 check, regardless of the size of the crowd; and two of the crew members will be extended portal-to-portal mileage. But the GPISD Stadium football officials locker room is really tough to beat, ranking right up there with the best of them! z^
That's one of the things that just continues to bother me with this whole thing. The UIL is supposedly pushing this whole thing because chapters do not want to abide by 1204, but when schools don't they look the other way!
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Is it correct that TASO has never complained to the UIL about this pay rate in Football? That is the song I've always heard. I've complained for years about getting screwed by schools. Nobody listens. I'd personally prefer a flat rate for football. Of course, $100 is the minimum I think I'm worth...a 1A-2A game should start there. I'd put 3A-4A at $125, and 5A at $150. There should also be 2 full mileage allowances.
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Is it correct that TASO has never complained to the UIL about this pay rate in Football? That is the song I've always heard. I've complained for years about getting screwed by schools. Nobody listens. I'd personally prefer a flat rate for football. Of course, $100 is the minimum I think I'm worth...a 1A-2A game should start there. I'd put 3A-4A at $125, and 5A at $150. There should also be 2 full mileage allowances.
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In my honest opinion, that's one of the primary reasons that the UIL really wants to embrace the National Federation. Way too many of the Federation states adhere to the flat fee including mileage structure. And granted that, with rare exception, that the game gates in those states should come anywhere remotely close to those here in Texas, if the UIL places such a fixture in any subsequent 1204, then that would become a "windfall" for them; despite the fact that in doing so, they aren't really saving that much money as outlined in their "budgets" for officials pay. Given that, I can't help but feel that it all really boils down to nothingmore than a power and control issue solely on the part of the UIL. z^
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I see a lot of guys who spend a tremendous amount of time, energy, and money to be able to work a $90 JUCO game. The flat rate works at every other level?
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For the same reason why you need to turn the scale around. Pay $100 at a 5A and then take it up from there. Most guys would rather do a good game without traveling far, regardless of the school size. Make them travel to do a 'less good' game and reward them more. Many guys will take less for JUCO and D-III because they see that as way to "move up". No need to pay them as much. In a perfect and free capitalistic market we could all barter with the schools and get whatever the market will bear. We all know the mass chaos that would create in HS sports so we agree to take some restrictions on capitalism for "the good of the cause".
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I am the last person to defend budgeting practices from school districts but I do understand what their issue is. The problem is for the sub varsity and Jr. Hi games not varsity (The districts should have zero issues with a varsity gate. HI attendance= more money for ISD= more money for officials it sounds like a win win to me no budget issues). Lets take a big district with 25 Jr. Hi's. If the fees move up from $30 a game to $40 a game that is a 33% increase. So if I have a 7A/B and 8A/B that plays 8 games each half home half away 3 officials that is an INCREASE of 3*16*10= 480 per school just for football officials. You take on top of that the other sports (VB basketball) at the Jr. Hi level and it is easy to see that each Jr. Hi has to come up with an additional $1000 for officials just at the Jr. Hi level. School budgets are set in February of the previous year. Now the AD's have to go and ask for another 25K for officials. Small districts with only 1 Jr. Hi only have to ask for 1000 which is an easier pill to swallow. Plus small town Jr. Hi. games have a lot better paying attendance then big ISD's (I once did a Dayton jr hi game with easily 2000 people at it) and that money is not as regulated as big ISD's if you know what I mean.
Solution:
In January of every year each TASO chapter negotiates with the ISD's about what they are going to pay. What ever the answer is publish it to the membership and let them decide who they will independently contract with. Any deviance with this policy should result in severe punishment from both sides. If a school does not pay what the market rate is then they may not have officials it is not TASO's fault the ISD's should raise their rates or make their schools more attractive to call games at. It is not all about money when calling Jr. Hi games some things that ISD's could do to make their school more attractive to officials at a below market rate are:
Have water available
pay cash on the spot
play 2 games on one date instead of driving all the way out there for 1 game (principals claim they only want to play 1 game because of lights on the field, and to get the kids home to study/sleep on a school night which I understand)
Varsity coach only picks crews that call his games. (It amazes me why coaches do not do this more. My U, LJ, R, and 6man try to work every Thursday together for the past 5 years. We only call the 4 schools closest to our house. We just rotate between those 4 and 3 out of 4 of them are in the same district. I was picked for 14 games this year which on paper puts me in the top 25% of crews in the Houston Chapter. I have never called any of the 4 schools that I religiously call sub varsity for).
Like many of the other posts on here it is not about money. It is about professionalism and being appreciated. The ISD's could pay a lot less if they just acted with a bit of respect towards us. The budgeting issue is a big ISD problem not a small ISD problem.
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I agree Coby. We have a school our chapter services that pays $40 cash for Sub Varsity games. I'd much rather that and forgo the milege verses having to go to the bank to cash a check. I'll never argue with that.
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We call varsity games out of my chapter for a 1A school about 25 miles from the Mexico border and about 100 miles from the chapter's city. All season, they have been paying crews $45 for every varsity game, even though the stands are full. A $45 check would mean they had gate receipts of less than $150. How is this possible even when only 500 people show up to the game? (And that estimate is very much on the low side). When the officials called and asked the Accounts Payable office, they were told that the coach told them to pay that much.
Wait a minute. Isn't there supposed to be an accounting of the gate? This school is obviously cheating the officials, but do you think the UIL cares?
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If anything this UIL incident shows that they do not care about policing their own only about making officials accountable. TASO must implement policies that are good for TASO. The days of doing what is best for the schools and unfortunently the kids are DEAD. That is the lesson that TASO leadership at every level must learn from this ordeal. I learned it...I learned it really well. My suggestion is to not call any more of those games until they fix the problem. My suggestion is to file open records request on the district. File a lawsuit.
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I am the last person to defend budgeting practices from school districts but I do understand what their issue is. The problem is for the sub varsity and Jr. Hi games not varsity (The districts should have zero issues with a varsity gate. HI attendance= more money for ISD= more money for officials it sounds like a win win to me no budget issues). Lets take a big district with 25 Jr. Hi's. If the fees move up from $30 a game to $40 a game that is a 33% increase. So if I have a 7A/B and 8A/B that plays 8 games each half home half away 3 officials that is an INCREASE of 3*16*10= 480 per school just for football officials. You take on top of that the other sports (VB basketball) at the Jr. Hi level and it is easy to see that each Jr. Hi has to come up with an additional $1000 for officials just at the Jr. Hi level. School budgets are set in February of the previous year. Now the AD's have to go and ask for another 25K for officials. Small districts with only 1 Jr. Hi only have to ask for 1000 which is an easier pill to swallow. Plus small town Jr. Hi. games have a lot better paying attendance then big ISD's (I once did a Dayton jr hi game with easily 2000 people at it) and that money is not as regulated as big ISD's if you know what I mean.
Solution:
In January of every year each TASO chapter negotiates with the ISD's about what they are going to pay. What ever the answer is publish it to the membership and let them decide who they will independently contract with. Any deviance with this policy should result in severe punishment from both sides. If a school does not pay what the market rate is then they may not have officials it is not TASO's fault the ISD's should raise their rates or make their schools more attractive to call games at. It is not all about money when calling Jr. Hi games some things that ISD's could do to make their school more attractive to officials at a below market rate are:
Have water available
pay cash on the spot
play 2 games on one date instead of driving all the way out there for 1 game (principals claim they only want to play 1 game because of lights on the field, and to get the kids home to study/sleep on a school night which I understand)
Varsity coach only picks crews that call his games. (It amazes me why coaches do not do this more. My U, LJ, R, and 6man try to work every Thursday together for the past 5 years. We only call the 4 schools closest to our house. We just rotate between those 4 and 3 out of 4 of them are in the same district. I was picked for 14 games this year which on paper puts me in the top 25% of crews in the Houston Chapter. I have never called any of the 4 schools that I religiously call sub varsity for).
Like many of the other posts on here it is not about money. It is about professionalism and being appreciated. The ISD's could pay a lot less if they just acted with a bit of respect towards us. The budgeting issue is a big ISD problem not a small ISD problem.
Wrong solution -- this is what the UIL has a problem with. The solution is to get paid the 1204. I agree that we should not have individual chapters negotiating rates. Let the schools pay according to 1204. No budget issues -- which is why this is a red herring issue. If the 1204 rate is not enough, officials will not call. But, again, UIL does not need to register officials to make this happen.
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Wrong solution -- this is what the UIL has a problem with. The solution is to get paid the 1204. I agree that we should not have individual chapters negotiating rates. Let the schools pay according to 1204. No budget issues -- which is why this is a red herring issue. If the 1204 rate is not enough, officials will not call. But, again, UIL does not need to register officials to make this happen.
Agreed in principal. Now if the schools do not pay accordingly then TASO does not service their school. When they complain to the UIL we document everything (including incident reports) and tell UIL to fix it from the ISD end of things. My main point is it is now Us vs Them. They can not have their cake and eat it too.
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We call varsity games out of my chapter for a 1A school about 25 miles from the Mexico border and about 100 miles from the chapter's city. All season, they have been paying crews $45 for every varsity game, even though the stands are full. A $45 check would mean they had gate receipts of less than $150. How is this possible even when only 500 people show up to the game? (And that estimate is very much on the low side). When the officials called and asked the Accounts Payable office, they were told that the coach told them to pay that much.
Wait a minute. Isn't there supposed to be an accounting of the gate? This school is obviously cheating the officials, but do you think the UIL cares?
Here's a thought, can anyone find in 1204 (old or new) the definition of "gate"? Is there any mention to season ticket sales?
Bottom line is we are spending way way way too much time accepting the premise that the budget problem is a legitimate topic. The only "budget" issue is the UIL's (along with that little power trip thing) but many here have "chewed on the carrot" that is it's a budget problem for the schools. My dad was a superintendent, of course that was back in the day - but I can assure you he never sat at the table and used a pencil for anything like officiating fees - these guys work in macro mode.