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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on October 23, 2010, 05:10:11 PM
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This video has 2 things worth talking about. 1 is a hit which will probably be dealt with by the Big XII this week and the other is enforcement of the 9-1-6 Sideline Interference. (NOTE: Upon further review, 2009 Bulletin 3, Play 8 says the penalty CAN be carried to the KO although rule specifically states enforcement is from "the succeeding spot)
The hit. Who should see this in this area with the 7 man crew? Is it even possible to see this by that person(s)? Are these players just moving too fast for us to even "see" the hit? ( I doubt the player's sideline behavior is going to help him out too much.)
[yt=425,350]mwLU4j5_GjQ[/yt]
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I get unavailable video :(
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Works for me
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If we want this stopped, its on our shoulders.
In my game last night, I found myself looking at a lot of hits that I thought twice about because of the increased emphasis on targeting and the NFL's recent memo.
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If we want this stopped, its on our shoulders.
The memo this week from Parry and Redding made this ABSOLUTELY clear. "The enforcement of these fouls has generally been positive on a national level to date; however, a continued and heightened emphasis regarding potentially dangerous contact must continue."
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The B looks like he was looking in that area. I would have thought he saw it.
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When you watch this from the end zone view, the B is moving to his position on the hash and appears to be looking at the area of the hit. I don't know about 7man mechanics, but in our 5man mechanics, the U, at the kick, moves toward the center of the field 1st assuring the safety of the kicker for 5 yds. then observing the center of the return teams formation checking for fouls by either team. I can only assume that the B & U split the field in 7man mechanics. I think that we sometimes get focused on holding, block in the back, and low blocks in the center on returns. In the not so distant past, this hit was viewed as O.K. and was not emphasized as dangerous. I think we as officials are definitely getting direction through the recent rules changes that these types of hit are not to be tolerated. I think it behooves us to put in more study so that we recognize this as automatically as we recognize a hold or block in the back.
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This is a major shift for all of us. We all grew up playing and watching the game...being coached to punish opposing players. These types of paradigm shifts take time for the training to catch up with real time. All in all, it does "wussify" football to an extent, but it is very necessary.
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I haven't seen anyone suggest that the player needs to be tossed. This is, IMO, a very unnecessary and flagrant act and worthy of ejection. When will the governing bodies (if as serious as they say) start calling for these players to be tossed out or when will we finally do the right thing to get the message out?
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I haven't seen anyone suggest that the player needs to be tossed. This is, IMO, a very unnecessary and flagrant act and worthy of ejection. When will the governing bodies (if as serious as they say) start calling for these players to be tossed out or when will we finally do the right thing to get the message out?
They already have Herb . And it was reiterated this week by Parry and Redding:
"Additionally, we remind all officials that our rules are in place to assist in making this call and when in doubt, a flag should be thrown for a foul. Fouls where players launch and lead with the helmet should receive strong consideration for an ejection."
The rule was changed to permit conference reviews of these hits, flagged or not, because they knew the hits were so dangerous and would be misssed at time. This hit was niot even flagged so it eitehr as not seen or was not seen for what it was. Now the Big XII can step in and do something anyway should they choose to do so.
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They already have Herb . And it was reiterated this week by Parry and Redding:
"Additionally, we remind all officials that our rules are in place to assist in making this call and when in doubt, a flag should be thrown for a foul. Fouls where players launch and lead with the helmet should receive strong consideration for an ejection."
...thanks, Mike. Now, I wonder when we will see it done? God knows there are plenty of clips where the flag was thrown but no portion of the bench warmed with the offender's backside.
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I don't think it is far-fetched to predict that instant replay rules may get modified to pemit a review of these hits and a penalty (to include ejection) given.
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I don't think it is far-fetched to predict that instant replay rules may get modified to pemit a review of these hits and a penalty (to include ejection) given.
Well, "instant" replay may not, but replay on Sunday or Monday already can, and does. Obviously, there can't be a retroactive penalty, but conferences review these plays and issue suspensions.
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As a high school official, what, if anything, can I take from the directives from the NFL and NCAA? I heard a comment from a coach on Friday night relating to a hit on his player. The only thing in the Fed rule book I can find is 9-4-g "No player shall make any other contact with an opponent which is deemed unnecessary and which incites roughness." Pretty vague, but I would think launching would fall in that category. Any comments?
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For NF what about 9-4-3-i-3... "Illegal helmet to helmet contact against a defenseless opponent."
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The B looks like he was looking in that area. I would have thought he saw it.
It might be his man, looks like 3rd or 4th guy in that side. I have no idea what his angle or distance might have been on the play.
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It might be his man, looks like 3rd or 4th guy in that side. I have no idea what his angle or distance might have been on the play.
I don't think B46 (the offending player) was part of Team B's front five, i.e. along Team B's restraining at the kick. Instead, I think B46 was initially positioned close to the B's sideline at ~B-40.
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I don't think B46 (the offending player) was part of Team B's front five, i.e. along Team B's restraining at the kick. Instead, I think B46 was initially positioned close to the B's sideline at ~B-40.
What does team B's front five have anything to do with B's keys?
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In some conferences, the front 5 (or 6) are keyed by the F, S, B, and U throughout the entire free kick down. If 46 was part of the front 5 (or 6), and this was part of the free kick mechanics, this targeting personal foul (and possible ejection) would have been flagged.
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I did not realize that some conferences still key the receivers.
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In 7-man, this is F,S,B or U's key if B46 was one of a 4 or 5 man front on the KO Return team.
On a free kick, as U I always yell out to my S (he is on the Receiving team RL, me on the K's restraining line) what number my key(s) is wearing. I have second man in on my side and maybe 2nd & 3rd man in on my side if a 5 man front.
I like this habit - it makes sure that we are keying correctly. We hold this key AT LEAST until they make one block and typically stay with them into the fray depending on where the play is going.
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I did not realize that some conferences still key the receivers.
This reads as if you key the kickers. I know some conferences do, but have never seen/heard the nuts & bolts. Please explain how y'all do it ... who keys who or what, etc?
Thanks much.
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This reads as if you key the kickers. I know some conferences do, but have never seen/heard the nuts & bolts. Please explain how y'all do it ... who keys who or what, etc?
Thanks much.
S/F on receiver's line take the widest two guys.
B/U take the next three guys in, U also has kicker.
We take them all the way down field, I have found it easier to track them since they basically stay in their lanes and do not cris-cross for blocking.
This is a NFL mechanic and is used in the mid-west alliance. (I did not know it was not nationwide)
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These are all of the free kick charts I have for 7-man.
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This video has 2 things worth talking about. 1 is a hit which will probably be dealt with by the Big XII this week and the other is enforcement of the 9-1-6 Sideline Interference.
[yt=425,350]mwLU4j5_GjQ[/yt]
And they did....
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5734296
Nebraska sophomore reserve linebacker Eric Martin is suspended for Saturday's game against Missouri, the Big 12 Conference announced on Wednesday afternoon.
Nebraska kick returner Niles Paul returned a kick 100 yards for a score with 6:27 to play in the first quarter of the Cornhuskers' 51-41 win over Oklahoma State last week, but on the play, Martin made helmet-to-helmet contact on a block with Cowboys freshman defensive end Andrew Hudson.
Hudson was attended to for several minutes before being carted off the field.
"Mr. Martin committed a flagrant act of targeting an opponent with the crown of his helmet in violation of NCAA football rules," commissioner Dan Beebe said in a statement. "This dangerous hit is one that we in the football community are trying to remove from the game."
No penalty was assessed on the play, but Big 12 officials reviewed the game tape and issued a suspension in accordance with NCAA Football Rule 9-6-3, which states, "if subsequent review of a game by a conference reveals plays involving flagrant personal fouls that game officials did not call, the conference may impose sanctions prior to the next scheduled game."
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These are all of the free kick charts I have for 7-man.
The third chart has the F/S going down to the 35.
We were told to stop at the 45, get stationary and watch blocks standing still.
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S/F on receiver's line take the widest two guys.
B/U take the next three guys in, U also has kicker.
We take them all the way down field, I have found it easier to track them since they basically stay in their lanes and do not cris-cross for blocking.
This is a NFL mechanic and is used in the mid-west alliance. (I did not know it was not nationwide)
These are all of the free kick charts I have for 7-man.
Kickoff2008InitialKeys-Positions.docx (160.53 KB - downloaded 18 times.)
Kickoff2008ZoneThreatsKickoffs.doc (63.5 KB - downloaded 16 times.)
Kickoff2008StrikeZoneKickoffs.doc (61.5 KB - downloaded 17 times.)
Kickoff2008FlyZoneMechanics.docx (257 KB - downloaded 18 times.)
Sonofanump & Sumstine,
Thanks very much for the information.
But, I'm a bit dense and do not see the significance of the 4 diagrams that Sumstine posted.
The "Initial Key" diagram is similar to Sonofanump's description, except the diagram shows L1 & R1 as being unkeyed. That appears odd; why?
Is the "Alerts - Zone Kickoffs" another model for keying the kicking team? Again, L1 is unkeyed ....?
Ditto for "Strike Zone Kickoffs" ....???
And I'm clueless with what to do with "Fly Zone Kickoffs".
Sorry. Any help appreciated.
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...except the diagram shows L1 & R1 as being unkeyed. That appears odd; why?
I do not know, we key him.
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These charts are usually presented with a 30 minute conversation so sorry for the confusion.
Initial key: L1 & R1 are not covered because one of the outside three will be containment and two will be on the attack. The F & S will take the two on attack and the containment man initially goes uncovered.
Alerts key: Shows R1 covered and L1 uncovered because the action is shifting in that direction and all officials can start checking down.
Strike zone: Agree with earlier post on F & S staying closer to the 50. This is just an example of staying with your keys until required to go to zone.
Fly zone: just pre-loads you to the most likely fouls seen in the kickoff field zones.
Hope this helps.
Matt
The "Initial Key" diagram is similar to Sonofanump's description, except the diagram shows L1 & R1 as being unkeyed. That appears odd; why?
Is the "Alerts - Zone Kickoffs" another model for keying the kicking team? Again, L1 is unkeyed ....?
Ditto for "Strike Zone Kickoffs" ....???
And I'm clueless with what to do with "Fly Zone Kickoffs".
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Initial key: L1 & R1 are not covered because one of the outside three will be containment and two will be on the attack. The F & S will take the two on attack and the containment man initially goes uncovered.
That makes sense. A few times I do get my key (F/S) peeling back for containment.