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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: 6310 Forever on November 14, 2010, 08:39:34 AM
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During a punt return for a TD, Line Judge has to run around a few coaches / players who have drifted onto the field during the return. Flag is dropped for the first instance of SLI, which is a 5-yard delay. Enforce this on the try or the succeeding kickoff? We went kickoff w/o offering a choice. Right? Wrong?
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We had a discussion on this a few weeks ago if memory serves. I said it had to be on the try as that was the "succeeding spot" which the rule specifically stated as the enforcement spot but I believe someone went to RR and he said try or KO, give the offended team the choice
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NCAA Play Situations Bulletin 4/2010 play #3 is similar. As every other succeeding spot foul during a TD play can carry over to the succeeding kickoff, I don't see why this foul should not.
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2008 NCAA Bulletin 2, Play 8:
Early in the first quarter defensive back B37 intercepts a pass and returns it for a touchdown.
The Field Judge trailing the play drops his flag at the A-20 because he has to avoid Team B
personnel who have come onto the field from the coaching box. This is Team B’s first side-
line interference infraction of the game.
RULING: This is a live-ball foul that is administered as a dead-ball foul. Team A may elect
to have the five-yard penalty enforced on the try or the kickoff. (9-1-6, 10-2-2-g-3)
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Thanks, guys, for your quick responses. I feel a little better!
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I had this two weeks ago during a pick six play when a player brushed me when I had already moved 2 yards onto the field to avoid excited players when a REALLY excited player came out even further. I could have gone with 15, but since I only brushed him I gave them 5. You need to get the Reddings books as it has a great carry over penalty chart. That chart makes it easy to learn and then easy to understand that play is a live ball foul administered as a dead ball foul which can be enforced on the try or the succeeding KO, but not into extra periods.
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Related question:
Team B is out of time outs. Team A scores a TD. During the down, a Team B player (a) failed to wear mandatory equipment or (b) wore illegal equipment. Does Team A get the option to take penalty enforcement on the try or succeeding kickoff?
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Related question:
Team B is out of time outs. Team A scores a TD. During the down, a Team B player (a) failed to wear mandatory equipment or (b) wore illegal equipment. Does Team A get the option to take penalty enforcement on the try or succeeding kickoff?
I'd think such a fould would be declined by rule via 10-2-5-a-2.
Best regards,
Brad
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I'd think such a fould would be declined by rule via 10-2-5-a-2.
Best regards,
Brad
Brad,
Read 10-2-5-c where it says "or live-ball fouls treated as DBFouls on the TD play, enforcement is on the try or the succeeding KO, at the option of the offending team."
The chart in the Redding Study Guide will keep you straight on all the carry over options.
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10-2-5-c. When a foul(s) occurs after a touchdown and before the ball is ready for play on the try or there was a live-ball foul treated as a dead-ball foul on the touchdown play, enforcement is on the try or the succeeding kickoff, at the option of the offended team (A.R. 3-2-3-VI).
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I think Brad is referring to the non personal foul nature of the offense (equipment vio) and suggesting treating like any other "common" 5 yarder.
Although the rules say the equip vio penalty is enforced at the "succeeding spot" (just as does teh sideline interference enforcement section), I believe the rulemakers envisioned equip vios being picked up on before the ball becomes live. Therefore, enforcing at the suceeding spot would never require dealing with live ball fouls on scoring plays.
It does appear to be a gray area but is there any other penalty that is enforced at "the suceeding spot" that does not qualify for carry over? I don't think so. Therefore I would say this could carry over as well.
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I think Brad is referring to the non personal foul nature of the offense (equipment vio) and suggesting treating like any other "common" 5 yarder.
Although the rules say the equip vio penalty is enforced at the "succeeding spot" (just as does teh sideline interference enforcement section), I believe the rulemakers envisioned equip vios being picked up on before the ball becomes live. Therefore, enforcing at the suceeding spot would never require dealing with live ball fouls on scoring plays.
It does appear to be a gray area but is there any other penalty that is enforced at "the suceeding spot" that does not qualify for carry over? I don't think so. Therefore I would say this could carry over as well.
Diablo's NCAA bulliten, posted above, from 08 seems to give clarity to the situation, showing that any LBTDB foul can be on the try or SSKO. BTW, how many of you have ever given an equipment violation during a play anyway. In college, we send them out to get the situation fixed and they don't come back in until it is fixed.
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Related question:
Team B is out of time outs. Team A scores a TD. During the down, a Team B player (a) failed to wear mandatory equipment or (b) wore illegal equipment. Does Team A get the option to take penalty enforcement on the try or succeeding kickoff?
1-4-6-b wants us to find this foul during the dead ball period before the down (preferably, before the ready). Players routinely lose mandatory equipment during the play of a down, so we should not penalize them for not having equipment during the down, but should make them rectify the situation before the next down.