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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: brownie on November 15, 2010, 11:46:49 PM
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On the weekend we had a flag dropped by an inexperienced line judge for Team A not being set for a second, but he didn't blow it dead. Then during the play we had a team B foul. We decided that as the play should never have gotten off we would treat it as if it didn't and just assess the infraction for not being set.
After the game we decided that what we did was wrong and that we should have offset the penalties and replayed the down.
Now as it's a stuff up I'm assuming there's no by the book way to handle it, other than making sure next time the whistle is blown, but just looking for feedback on how people feel it should have been handled.Thanks
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Why should he have blown it dead? I think you have a foul at the snap for illegal shift. Foul by B during the play creates a double foul situation. Replay the down.
^no
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Biltheref is correct. An illegal shift is a foul at the snap so you don't kill it. This should have been offsetting fouls.
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Although it would not have been the case in this play as both fouls were live ball ones, if you had a false start that was not blown dead initially:
ignore simple team B fouls but enforce major ones as dead ball fouls even tho they seemed live when it happened.
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LolWut?
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Although it would not have been the case in this play as both fouls were live ball ones, if you had a false start that was not blown dead initially:
ignore simple team B fouls but enforce major ones as dead ball fouls even tho they seemed live when it happened.
yEs:
Give that man a sNiCkErS
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When does the ball become live - when it is spotted or at the snap ?
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When is is LEGALLY snapped or LEGALLY free kicked.
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being picky here but - ergo shouldn't a false start be a dead ball foul ?
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It is. What is your issue?
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What about illegal shift ?
No issue Mike - just clarifying for my own education.
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What about illegal shift ?
Live ball foul
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Thankyou
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What about illegal shift ?
Players could always get set up until the snap, so it is not a foul until the ball is snapped. Therefore live ball foul.
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Ah now that makes sense. I can stop scratching my head now.
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Thanks all, the live ball dead ball logic is exactly what I was looking to to clear up when things should/shouldn't be blown dead on the line, and thanks TXmike for the guide lines on what we should do if it is something that should have been blown dead. I knew we'd made a meal of it but we manged to add an extra layer on top of that.
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The way I try to remember if it should be blown dead is to ask the question,"Is there something the a player may do to make himself legal, ie,get set for a second,wait til both are set for a second,then go in motion,etc, If they can do something to make it legal,let play go,if you blow it dead,you have robbed them of the opportunity to do so.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l621ZZ7t08
Here's an example of a live ball foul. Since they never actually snap it, it isn't a foul.
Two guys on the visiting team's offense forget who should be the motion man and both go in motion. Their movement was not deemed by me to be jerky enough to be a False Start. Eventually the QB asks me for a T/Out so he can sort his offense out.
This play totally confused a couple of blow-hards in the crowd and (you can just see) also one or two folks on the home team sideline.
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However did they beat Sweden ?
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The loud mouth does not sound like a Brit (but I am sure glad he has taken his football "intelligence" over to your side of the pond)
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The loud mouth does not sound like a Brit (but I am sure glad he has taken his football "intelligence" over to your side of the pond)
But seemingly there is an unlimited supply of said "intelligence" all over the world :)
What did the great Albert say?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former"
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However did they beat Sweden ?
Well this is a game between two teams in our 2nd tier.
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You have that many teams ? :o
I suppose you do have a lot of US servicemen.
Sorry Brownie if where hijacking your thread but I assume its run iys courser.
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About 50 Senior teams (Adult Rec to our American cousins) split into 3 divisions.
Also have about 25 Youth Rec (19 year old or younger) teams.
End of the Cold War means that most US military bases in the UK closed long ago. Nothing like the numbers of US airforce folks here nowadays. I'd bet there aren't more than 30 US military personnel playing in the entire league.
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And another 40-50 teams in our college league.
http://buafl.net//university.aspx
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_football_teams_in_the_United_Kingdom
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What surprised me was the number of college and semi-pro teams there were in Japan:
http://www.american-football-japan.com/index.htm
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Some of the best officials in Japan trek to Texas every year for our state clinic. They take it a lot more serious than many of our own guys do.
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I wouldn't mind working a season over there. Even if the fans and coaches still think you're a horse's arse, they are too polite to vocalize it. aWaRd
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I was thinking about Tom Beards clinic - whats the Texas one like Mike ?