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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: MJT on November 27, 2010, 10:48:49 PM

Title: Illegal substitution on the defense call
Post by: MJT on November 27, 2010, 10:48:49 PM

OK/OKST game 2nt. In the 4th qtr Oklahoma does not make any substitutions and quickly tries to quickly snap the ball as the defense tries to get their 12th man off the field after a late substitution they made. The short or deep wing blew his whistle at the snap and made it a DB IS foul as the player was sprinting off the field and was still a few yards from the sideline. I know our supervisors would want this particular call made as a live ball foul if it is obvious he is running off and not going to participate in the play. How are you guys instructed to call a play like that?

Title: Re: Illegal substitution on the defense call
Post by: TXMike on November 28, 2010, 07:41:18 AM

Went through this pretty thoroughly recently  http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=4725.0

Appears there are some different conference philosophies on it or at least some different interps on it.   

Title: Re: Illegal substitution on the defense call
Post by: Birddog on November 28, 2010, 11:18:03 AM

Mike is right the Big 12 is very consistent on this. They prefer this to be a dead ball foul.   

Title: Re: Illegal substitution on the defense call
Post by: NCAA-SJ on November 28, 2010, 12:41:05 PM

If that's true, I'm not sure how they support it by rule....if the 12th guy is trying to leave the field, then this is a live ball foul simultaneous with the snap.  No different, in my mind, if you call illegal motion a dead ball foul----the snap HAS to occur for this to be a foul.

Title: Re: Illegal substitution on the defense call
Post by: NVFOA_Ump on November 29, 2010, 04:02:10 AM

Quote from: NCAA-SJ on November 28, 2010, 12:41:05 PM

If that's true, I'm not sure how they support it by rule....if the 12th guy is trying to leave the field, then this is a live ball foul simultaneous with the snap.  No different, in my mind, if you call illegal motion a dead ball foul----the snap HAS to occur for this to be a foul.

3-5-2-c supports a DB foul any time a team has 12 or more players on the field, and no one has begun making a clear attempt to leave within 3 seconds of the 12th player entering.  Also, we have always been instructed not to wait if there is any chance that the snap is eminent and we could end up with a 15 yard IP foul - take the 5 yd DB foul.

Title: Re: Illegal substitution on the defense call
Post by: TXMike on November 29, 2010, 05:33:16 AM

www.romgilbert.us/vidclip14.htm

Title: Re: Illegal substitution on the defense call
Post by: NCAA-SJ on November 29, 2010, 06:49:08 AM

Thanks Rom....that's my understanding.  If a player starts to make an "attempt" to leave the field within the allotted 3 seconds...by rule, this can no longer be a dead ball foul as long as he continues to "attempt" to leave the field.  What happens if he gets off the field before the snap?  No foul, right?  What happens if he doesn't get off the field before the snap?  Foul, right?  What makes it a foul?  THE SNAP!

Just my way of reading it.  However, if you're sup tells you otherwise, I'd listen to him; no one works for me!  Let 'him' answer to JA and RR.