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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: Aussie-Zebra on December 09, 2010, 12:38:35 PM

Title: Free Kick situation
Post by: Aussie-Zebra on December 09, 2010, 12:38:35 PM
This question appeared on Facebook - Officially Speaking and it's a thought provoking one. Judgment call perhaps ?

True or False
If on a free kick, B22 catches the ball at the B28 with his left foot in bounds and his right on the white line. It would be B 1-10 @ B28. Cite the rule.

Some say Foul Team A 6-2-1
A free kick out of bounds between the goal lines untouched by an inbounds player of Team B is a foul

Some say (me) dead ball at the catch - I cite AR 6-2-1-III
A kickoff goes out of bounds after Team B has touched it, and no
fouls occur. RULING: Team B snaps at the inbounds spot.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: TXMike on December 09, 2010, 12:41:59 PM
Touching precedes possession.  That means the ball was touched by an out of bounds Team B player, hence a foul for a kick out of bounds
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Kalle on December 09, 2010, 01:23:02 PM
What TXMike said. The relevant rules are:

2-10-4 touching always precedes possession
4-2-1-a a player touching a boundary line is out of bounds
4-2-3-a the ball is out of bounds when touched by a player who is out of bounds
6-2-1 it is a foul when a free kick is out of bounds untouched by an inbounds team B player (emphasis mine)
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Aussie-Zebra on December 09, 2010, 01:55:59 PM
I can see the logic there.

It doesn't seem fair to team A to be penalised for the action of a team B player. If B22 had one foot in bounds and one foot in the air when he caught the ball and his foot came down on the line then it would be a deadball.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Atlanta Blue on December 09, 2010, 03:26:55 PM
It doesn't seem fair to team A to be penalised for the action of a team B player.

Then don't put the kickoff so close to the sideline!

Free kick rules are designed to encourage runbacks, which is why there is such a severe penalty for kicking the ball out of bounds (spot at the 40, although, statistically, this is not a "penalty").

Sure, the kicking team wants to give as little chance to the receivers as possible by kicking the ball toward a corner, but if you do, this is a chance you take.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: With_Two_Flakes on December 09, 2010, 07:27:02 PM
Then don't put the kickoff so close to the sideline!

Can't fault the logic there....
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: The Ref Thats Lef on December 10, 2010, 05:17:32 PM
Touching precedes possession.

Unless the player is airborne. Still don't agree with it but it is the interpretation.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: TXMike on December 10, 2010, 05:20:09 PM
Touching  is not the issue on the play you refer to. It is whether that play is inbounds or out of bounds.  But I agree with you, it is a screwy ruling.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Diablo on December 10, 2010, 05:51:07 PM
The relevant rules are:
2-10-4 touching always precedes possession
4-2-1-a a player touching a boundary line is out of bounds
4-2-3-a the ball is out of bounds when touched by a player who is out of bounds
6-2-1 it is a foul when a free kick is out of bounds untouched by an inbounds team B player (emphasis mine)



I can see the logic there.



OK
Given the logic above how would you rule on the following play?
Airborne B17 has leaped from inbounds and is the first player to
touch Team A’s free kick when he receives the ball. He subsequently
lands out of bounds with the ball in his possession.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: TXMike on December 10, 2010, 08:40:10 PM
That is what 90 percent of us would have saod until AR 6-2-2-IV came out a few years ago
.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: scottv on December 10, 2010, 11:47:01 PM
It doesn't seem fair to team A to be penalised for the action of a team B player.

I'm waiting for a smart coach (maybe a long wait ::)) to tell his players to put one foot on the line and catch the ball, so they can take it at the 40.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: TXMike on December 11, 2010, 06:12:04 AM
You see 'em time after time watching the ball roll towards the sideline and waiting to see if they should pick it up or let it roll out of bounds while the kickers bear down on them.  Just step out of bounds and pick it up!!!
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: chymechowder on December 11, 2010, 06:31:38 AM
agreed. but there are two potential problems with that gambit:

1. if the team B takes his eye off the ball to make sure he's got his foot OOB, he runs the risk of missnig the ball and team A recovering it.

2. if he does pick up an otherwise returnable ball at the B-11 with one foot OOB...there's, um, a slight chance that the ball will be spotted at the 11.

[ADD] And the video of the play will end up on this site in a thread entitled, "Missed Kick OOB Foul?"  ;)
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Atlanta Blue on December 11, 2010, 07:41:04 AM
I'm waiting for a smart coach (maybe a long wait ::)) to tell his players to put one foot on the line and catch the ball, so they can take it at the 40.

Well, I'm not necessarily claiming smart, but we have taught our kids exactly that.

Problem is, about 90% of the officials get the call wrong, saying the receiving team "caused" the ball to go out of bounds.

I attended an official's clinic before the season started and brought up this very play.  It caused a HUGE debate and not even the clinician's would agree.  Without an appeal system, it's too dangerous a tactic in most games only because it's not a well known rule.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: TXMike on December 11, 2010, 08:03:48 AM
i guarantee you 90% of the officials in Texas would get it right and there would be 100% agreement among the clinicians. Move here.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Diablo on December 11, 2010, 08:24:54 AM
You see 'em time after time watching the ball roll towards the sideline and waiting to see if they should pick it up or let it roll out of bounds while the kickers bear down on them.  Just step out of bounds and pick it up!!!

Hell, he doesn't even have to pick it up, i.e. possess the ball.  Just touch it or bat it to emphasize contact with the ball.


i guarantee you 90% of the officials in Texas would get it right and there would be 100% agreement among the clinicians. Move here.
LOL Classic bravado !!   LOL

Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: TXMike on December 11, 2010, 08:35:11 AM
Just the facts Sir, just the facts!
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Atlanta Blue on December 11, 2010, 10:36:15 AM
i guarantee you 90% of the officials in Texas would get it right and there would be 100% agreement among the clinicians. Move here.

Well, the actual play I brought up was a bounding free kick near the sideline where the receiver steps OOB and reaches inbounds to grab the ball.  I betting 90% don't get it right, even in Texas.

A friend of mine from New Mexico once said, "Texas would be a great place if it wasn't for the Texans."  Kind of like France.  ;)   
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Aussie-Zebra on December 11, 2010, 11:08:43 AM
I thought I just heard a faint voice saying "Dem's fightin werds"
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: TXMike on December 11, 2010, 11:10:39 AM
The "bounding kick" would not give us any problems.  Bet is on.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: James on December 13, 2010, 04:37:45 AM
A friend of mine from New Mexico once said, "Texas would be a great place if it wasn't for the Texans."  Kind of like France.  ;)   

Is there a lot of Texans in France?

But seriously, I would say 75-80% would get it right here. I have done it as a player twice in a game - and really streatched to touch the ball.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: fbrefga on December 13, 2010, 07:01:41 PM
Is there a lot of Texans in France?


There is a Paris, Texas!!! yEs:
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Diablo on December 13, 2010, 07:20:34 PM
There is a Paris, Texas!!! yEs:

And a Rome, TX,  Moscow, TX  and Dime Box, TX   :!#
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: James on December 14, 2010, 06:13:10 AM
I disagree:
DIME BOX, TEXAS
Lee County, Central Texas South
FM 141 (Off Hwy 21)
Population: est. 381 (2000) 313 (1990)

That is not a lot of Texans although they might SOUND like a lot.
 >:D
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Aussie-Zebra on December 14, 2010, 06:50:17 AM
I'm waiting for a smart coach (maybe a long wait ::)) to tell his players to put one foot on the line and catch the ball, so they can take it at the 40.

I've been told that Wes Welker used this a lot when he was a Miami Dolphin.
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Locker Room on December 14, 2010, 07:42:49 AM
That is what 90 percent of us would have saod until AR 6-2-2-IV came out a few years ago
.

Only 90 percent?  And who would be included in the 10%?
Title: Re: Free Kick situation
Post by: Kalle on December 14, 2010, 07:54:27 AM
With the free kick being from the 30 and the receiving team getting the ball on their 20 after penalty enforcement if they decline offsetting fouls, it is likely that the receiving team will accept offsetting fouls and there will be a re-kick from the 30.  Most of the time the kickoff is returned beyond the receiver's 20.

Umm, what offsetting team B foul are you talking about here?