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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: Aussie-Zebra on January 23, 2011, 01:21:39 AM

Title: PAT attempt
Post by: Aussie-Zebra on January 23, 2011, 01:21:39 AM: Do 4th down fumble rules apply on a point after try ?

QB A13 fumbles the snap at the 3, A22 picks it up and crosses the goal line - is it 2 points or a dead ball ?
Title: Re: PAT attempt
Post by: Kalle on January 23, 2011, 03:10:18 AM: 4th down fumble rules apply also on tries, see rule 8-3-2-d-5. But, I claim that in your situation the result is a two-point try. Why would I claim that?
Title: Re: PAT attempt
Post by: Atlanta Blue on January 23, 2011, 07:39:15 AM: Quote from: Kalle on January 23, 2011, 03:10:18 AM
4th down fumble rules apply also on tries, see rule 8-3-2-d-5. But, I claim that in your situation the result is a two-point try. Why would I claim that?

Because, according to the post, the DEFENSE picked up the loose ball and carried it into the end zone!
Title: Re: PAT attempt
Post by: Kalle on January 23, 2011, 07:42:35 AM: Quote from: Atlanta Blue on January 23, 2011, 07:39:15 AM
Because, according to the post, the DEFENSE picked up the loose ball and carried it into the end zone!

Nicely spotted. But, even if it was actually A22 who picks the ball up, I still claim it is a two point touchdown. Why?
Title: Re: PAT attempt
Post by: RedTD on January 23, 2011, 07:44:18 AM: Might have something to do with the SNAP yEs:
Title: Re: PAT attempt
Post by: cougar729 on January 23, 2011, 09:30:51 AM: Because most likely the snap was a muff and not a fumble, therefor the 4th down fumble rule would not apply
Title: Re: PAT attempt
Post by: Rulesman on January 23, 2011, 11:22:23 AM: Quote from: Aussie-Zebra on January 23, 2011, 01:21:39 AM
QB B13 fumbles the snap at the 3...
Why would Team "B" be snapping the ball? ???
Title: Re: PAT attempt
Post by: Aussie-Zebra on January 23, 2011, 01:33:01 PM: Sorry my mistake - amended to A13 and A22
It was a busy day after only 5 hrs sleep then officiating 3 games then working 8 hours.

Quote from: Kalle on January 23, 2011, 07:42:35 AM
I still claim it is a two point touchdown. Why?

Thanks for the reference Kalle. Reading the rule and the AR it depends on whether you classify it as a muff or fumble.
If its a muff the 2 points are awarded if a fumble then they are not.

I would say that the QB didn't have control of the ball therefore it was a muff and the 2 pts stand.
Title: Re: PAT attempt
Post by: Diablo on January 23, 2011, 06:57:20 PM: Quote from: Aussie-Zebra on January 23, 2011, 01:33:01 PM
Reading the rule and the AR it depends on whether you classify it as a muff or fumble.
If its a muff the 2 points are awarded if a fumble then they are not.

I would say that the QB didn't have control of the ball therefore it was a muff and the 2 pts stand.

A loose ball from an unsuccessful snap is considered a backward pass, even if the QB's hands were under the snapper. The inability to catch or recover a backward pass is labelled a muff.
Title: Re: PAT attempt
Post by: foureyedzebra on January 23, 2011, 07:43:30 PM: A fumble, by definition, is any act other than passing, kicking or successful
handing that results in loss of player possession

It is impossible for a player to fumble without first having had possession.
Title: Re: PAT attempt
Post by: With_Two_Flakes on January 24, 2011, 09:20:15 PM: To help my crew remember that 4th down fumble rules apply, I have 4 showing on the down box when we run the PAT.