RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: fencewire on February 04, 2011, 12:34:27 PM
-
Do you think it will filter down to Texas? Timeframe?
They better come out with a "lightweight" version or there may be a lot of bigtime swamp IDIOT during zero week...
-
I doubt we will see them for awhile, if ever. We need to keep costs under control
-
I doubt we will see them for awhile, if ever. We need to keep costs under control
From what I hear it will be discussed in a couple weeks but may be made optional for next year.
I am old school and like them but it appears they are gonna die out.
-
I doubt we will see them for awhile, if ever. We need to keep costs under control
Since we buy our own and most already have a pair, what cost is there to keep under control?
-
Because many of us do not have them nor do we plan to buy a pair.
-
^flag
I would certainly think that the TASO State Board will continue to make the black pants optional for the near future anyway, just as much the same way that they'll make the 2 inch striped shirts optional as well. To just willy-nilly go with both of these new items would certainly upset a lot of Texas high school officials who haven't even worn the "new" off of some of their existing apparel. I can't really envision a mandatory change at the Texas high school level for at least the next 3 years or so. z^
-
Because many of us do not have them nor do we plan to buy a pair.
I broke down last year and bought a pair. My crew had talked about them. The 3rd week of the playoffs was pretty chilly so I borrowed a pair. For cold weather they are the cat's meow for sure.
Hot or warmer weather, I am not to sure about.
-
^flag
My crew bought them with the intent of wearing them only for cold weather games and never really had a game that was actually cold enough to break them out! Greatly looking forward to trying them out! z^
-
I hope they are phased out sooner rather than later. Hopefully before I need to spring for another pair.
-
Also, word on the street is that the Cliff Keen and Gerry Davis pants are made of a lighter material than the Honigs.
-
I'll buy 2 pair if I never have to wear white knickers again!
-
Please if anyone on this board has any pull with TASO, GET RID OF KNICKERS. At least make it optional for the crew.
-
Please if anyone on this board has any pull with TASO, GET RID OF KNICKERS. At least make it optional for the crew.
Send an email to your District Director. The football board is to meet sometime this month.
-
I agree, knickers need to go.
-
Send an email to your District Director. The football board is to meet sometime this month.
Good idea. Just e-mailed mine in favor of a transition.
-
It's my understanding the board is to meet February 18.
-
Send your responses on black pants to
footballdistrict9director@taso.org
He is the committee chairman.
-
The knickers are not going away. They black pant option might be extended into non-cold weather situations (which I guess would mean with short sleeve shirts) but there is no way we should force guys to buy the pants.
-
That would be fine txmike. As for my crew, the knickers will be persona non grata.
-
^flag
I can't exactly see the rationale of immediately ditching the knickers. My goodness! I, nor my crew, am going to be thrilled with the prospects of donning those black pants in Week 0! More especially if it's a day game on some archaic hot astroturf. That is why I would think that TASO will exercise the better judgement of allowing a choice between the black pants and our existing knickers.
If they want to keep white pants in some form, they could easily adopt the white pants currently used by the NFL. But in this bad economy of ours, we could do so much more and help so many more people by sticking to the status quo. The pants are undeniably nice, but let's give everyone the choice of whether they want to wear them or not! z^
-
I totally agree Keith. My back judge just got his yesterday. He is the only one on our crew with them. I have SO MANY pairs of knickers I would hate to see them just need to be thrown away and spend all that money to replace them. I will buy one pair of the new pants to have for cold games, but that will probably be it unless the board decides we need a change.
-
I would just about bet that knickers will still be an option. The light weight pant or knickers with Short sleeve shirt and the heavier black pants with long sleeve..
-
I have no problem with keeping the knickers as an option. What I would at least like is to be able to have the option to wear black pants with short sleeves. We had a Friday last season where a summer storm came in and dumped a ton of rain on us for about 45 minutes. This was an hour and a half before kick off. The field was a quagmire but it was still hot (typical Houston late summer weather). I think I washed my knickers three times that night and I still did not get them completely clean. Black pants would have been a great option for this game.
I'd like to see knickers go away completely but I realize that won't happen any time soon at the high school level.
-
I agree that the black pants should be an option with the short sleeves. I do not own a pair yet because I knew that my crew would not work playoff games and it really did not get cold enough during the regular season to warrant buying a pair. I am an official with experience, but I am on a new crew. A couple of the guys did not want to invest money in even a LS shirt last year.
The option would be nice...but when the NFL let some of the crews wear the black pants with SS shirts in some domes a couple of years ago it kind of looked funny. For some reason, I think the black pants look better with LS shirts...but I would wear them just the same. It all depends on what my crew wants to do.
I hope that my crew will all have LS shirts this year. I got to wear mine a couple of times last year when I filled in on another crew. I also hope that they buy black pants just so we can have them as an option. I hate it when one guy holding out means the crew has to do something different.
-
I hate it when one guy holding out means the crew has to do something different.
You are right about that! I heard a rumor in my chapter that it will ultimately be a crew decision - if entire crew goes black - all good. But a few on my crew still have the first dollar they ever made - I don't think they will spring for the new uniform.
-
I agree that the black pants should be an option with the short sleeves. I do not own a pair yet because I knew that my crew would not work playoff games and it really did not get cold enough during the regular season to warrant buying a pair. I am an official with experience, but I am on a new crew. A couple of the guys did not want to invest money in even a LS shirt last year.
The option would be nice...but when the NFL let some of the crews wear the black pants with SS shirts in some domes a couple of years ago it kind of looked funny. For some reason, I think the black pants look better with LS shirts...but I would wear them just the same. It all depends on what my crew wants to do.
I hope that my crew will all have LS shirts this year. I got to wear mine a couple of times last year when I filled in on another crew. I also hope that they buy black pants just so we can have them as an option. I hate it when one guy holding out means the crew has to do something different.
The NFL didn't really "let" the crews wear the black pants with short sleeves. The crew(s) did that on their own, and were quickly told not to do that any more. That may change.
-
The knickers are not going away. They black pant option might be extended into non-cold weather situations (which I guess would mean with short sleeve shirts) but there is no way we should force guys to buy the pants.
Agreed Knickers aren't going away but they are definitely "on their way out". No one can possibly say knickers look better than the black pants. As we all know, its perception. If the coaches see you look good, they are comfortable to begin the game, but then its up to you to keep that "comfortability". If you look like "crap" to begin with, you are starting at a deficit. My crew wore them all year and during the playoffs and all I can say is woo hoo, they look great and are ultra comfortable. Welcome to the 21st century.
-
Agreed Knickers aren't going away but they are definitely "on their way out". No one can possibly say knickers look better than the black pants. As we all know, its perception. If the coaches see you look good, they are comfortable to begin the game, but then its up to you to keep that "comfortability". If you look like "crap" to begin with, you are starting at a deficit. My crew wore them all year and during the playoffs and all I can say is woo hoo, they look great and are ultra comfortable. Welcome to the 21st century.
You wore winter weight black pants the entire season in Texas with long sleeve shirts? This explains a lot......
-
You wore winter weight black pants the entire season in Texas with long sleeve shirts? This explains a lot......
LOL
-
Agreed Knickers aren't going away but they are definitely "on their way out". No one can possibly say knickers look better than the black pants. As we all know, its perception. If the coaches see you look good, they are comfortable to begin the game, but then its up to you to keep that "comfortability". If you look like "crap" to begin with, you are starting at a deficit. My crew wore them all year and during the playoffs and all I can say is woo hoo, they look great and are ultra comfortable. Welcome to the 21st century.
You wore winter weight black pants the entire season in Texas with long sleeve shirts? This explains a lot......
^flag
It could well be the new UIL approved football officiating uniform for 2011! z^
-
You wore winter weight black pants the entire season in Texas with long sleeve shirts? This explains a lot......
Well its quite evident Brad that you are a moron. Our crew wore the light weight black pants and short sleeves the entire year and playoffs. We encountered pretty mild weather for the majority of the year and it was never necessary to go to the heavier black pants and long sleeves although they were packed and ready if called upon. I pray that the UIL dandates the black pants, knickers are similar to a high maintenace girlfriend, they cost a bunch, arent likely to make last call and need to be checked at the door when you are done with them. Long live the UIL, send taso packing, their is a new sheriff in town and his name is Tony Timmons. YEAH
-
^flag
Well, let's just see if Judge Yeakel aligns himself with the UIL in his forthcoming Federal ruling! z^
-
Well its quite evident Brad that you are a moron. Our crew wore the light weight black pants and short sleeves the entire year and playoffs. We encountered pretty mild weather for the majority of the year and it was never necessary to go to the heavier black pants and long sleeves although they were packed and ready if called upon. I pray that the UIL dandates the black pants, knickers are similar to a high maintenace girlfriend, they cost a bunch, arent likely to make last call and need to be checked at the door when you are done with them. Long live the UIL, send taso packing, their is a new sheriff in town and his name is Tony Timmons. YEAH
You apparently don't know Brad very well. Sorry to disappoint, but he's no moron!
-
Heck in your crew, Forrest Gump would be a freaking genius. But I do agree that Brad is the brightest non back judge on your crew. ;D
As for other "gentleman"...there was nobody in the state wearing black pants in the 1st 6 weeks of the season. Yet more proof he is just trying to agitate and aggravate.
-
I really like the looks of the black pants and would like to them become the standard. In addition, a TASO patch for the shoulder would be a nice touch.
-
Well its quite evident Brad that you are a moron.
Wow, that really stings.....wait...no, coming from you it doesn't. I'm finally convinced that you make up about 95% of everything you say. I think most people realize you are an irrelevant participant to any discussion on these boards.
Best regards,
Brad
By the way, this from TASO 5-Man Mechanics Manual: "In cold weather, the knickers may be replaced with an "NFL-type" black pant. The pants
must be worn by the entire crew. The pants must be accompanied by regulation, longsleeved
shirts. The pants must include a one-inch white strip on the seam of the leg, must
not be cuffed, and must continue to the shoe without a break."
-
Wow, that really stings.....wait...no, coming from you it doesn't. I'm finally convinced that you make up about 95% of everything you say. I think most people realize you are an irrelevant participant to any discussion on these boards.
Best regards,
Brad
^flag
Great attitude, Brad! After all, as soon as the favorable ruling is handed down, I seriously doubt that he'll have neither the time nor the inclination to even want to lurk around here! z^
-
The only thing constant is change. To show my age, we had the same debate when we changed fron red flags to yellow.
-
The only thing constant is change. To show my age, we had the same debate when we changed fron red flags to yellow.
Wow. That indeed IS a time-defining statement. I can BARELY remember seeing the red foul markers when I was in junior high, and I've been working football for 32 years.
-
How many of us argued against wearing black shorts for subvarsity and scrimmages?
-
Well its quite evident that Tony Timmons is a moron. YEAH
FIFY
-
Wow. That indeed IS a time-defining statement. I can BARELY remember seeing the red foul markers when I was in junior high, and I've been working football for 32 years.
the flags were red and white were they not. i started in 1970 and this seems right but i would not guarantee anything with this memory any more. lol
-
the flags were red and white were they not. i started in 1970 and this seems right but i would not guarantee anything with this memory any more. lol
Yep, red & white. I still have one. Keeping it for posterity. Unless I can sell it on Pawn Stars for thousands of dollars. :D
-
I guess I sort of remember the red and white foul markers. Perhaps I'm getting them mixed up in my cabeza with the old pylons. Weren't those also red flags suspended above the goal line & end line corners with the sidelines on some kind of springy steel rod?
-
Dang GWK I had forgotten about those. They went out about the same time as the stuff that used to cover the field. I think it was called grass. I did a playoff game once at a neutral site, and when we arrived there was not a mark on the grass field. The coaches went with me to a local hardware store and bought all the white spray paint they had and we painted one as close as we could. Ah for the old days.
-
^flag
I attended high school in SW Louisiana and my last football season was the fall of 69. That particular season, the LA refs threw the red/white flags. The pylons all seemed to look like red oil field rags hanging off of a long piece of wire stuck into the ground. No adornments on the field other than the white lines. A lot of places we played at only had chalk but we were fortunate enough to have them painted onto the field at home!
The following football season at college was when I first saw the "new" yellow flags and thought to myself how odd and strange they were opining that they were just a fad that would simply never last!
Oh, the pleasant memories that you have stirred! z^
-
^flag
I attended high school in SW Louisiana and my last football season was the fall of 69. That particular season, the LA refs threw the red/white flags. The pylons all seemed to look like red oil field rags hanging off of a long piece of wire stuck into the ground. No adornments on the field other than the white lines. A lot of places we played at only had chalk but we were fortunate enough to have them painted onto the field at home!
The following football season at college was when I first saw the "new" yellow flags and thought to myself how odd and strange they were opining that they were just a fad that would simply never last!
Oh, the pleasant memories that you have stirred! z^
As with so many things, the change in foul marker color was a TV thing. So, it should not be a surprise that these changes began occurring about the time that televised sporting events started becoming such major part of broadcast television, and our lives. The red or red/white thing didn't show up well on TV, so they picked a light color (other than white) - voila - gold. Even before that, the 2" stripes in the NFL were generated by the way 1" stripes created a rather moire-like pattern on CRT tv screens. 2" wide stripes averted that. But, with LCD, plasma, HD, etc., technology, I don't think that makes any difference any more.
The red flag on wire/spring style pylons went the way of the dinosaur for what should be obvious safety reasons.
-
I did a playoff game once at a neutral site, and when we arrived there was not a mark on the grass field. The coaches went with me to a local hardware store and bought all the white spray paint they had and we painted one as close as we could. Ah for the old days.
Come to Britain, where we usually have at least two or three games a year with fields marked in wobbly spray paint or flour (on grass) or gaffer tape (on turf)...
-
I started to use death analogies with knickers, but I don't want to equate something so trivial with human life. Knickers are on their way out. It took an organization -- the NCAA (or CCA, whoever) to make a strong decision to get rid of them. I think if you look back at all uniform changes, be it shirt colors -- white long sleeves to stripes -- flag colors (discussed), or even stirrups to one piece, I think you'll find that someone stepped up and said "everyone is going to ___" and whatever is changed was gone in a short period of time.
Knickers are very impractical. They don't look better. They are tough to clean in many cases. The only reasons for keeping them around are sentiment, resistance to change, not wanting to replace gear ($$), and not really being wild about the look of pants for football when all you've seen is knickers for close to a century. The last will be the easiest to change once you no longer have to go through a can of spray and wash each month of the football season. Just think: no more trouble putting on two long pairs of socks -- made more difficult when wearing tights; no more having to adjust your knickers; no more 3 different loads of laundry (whites, blacks, and stripes -- now blacks and stripes); no more looking silly after a subvarsity game running into Subway or getting gas; and finally, the most important: being able to crap in your pants after a big blown call without anyone knowing a thing!
-
After reading the last few posts. I would think that all of you old broke down grandpas would want the black pants more than ever because it would be so much easier to hide your Depends than the knickers ever could. LOL
-
After reading the last few posts. I would think that all of you old broke down grandpas would want the black pants more than ever because it would be so much easier to hide your Depends than the knickers ever could. LOL
So now we know why you and your crew wore them all year.
-
... and finally, the most important: being able to crap in your pants after a big blown call without anyone knowing a thing!
After reading the last few posts. I would think that all of you old broke down grandpas would want the black pants more than ever because it would be so much easier to hide your Depends than the knickers ever could. LOL
^flag
I think that Mr. Stack has more than sufficiently answered the question as to why certain officials donned the black pants all season long in 2010 without paying heed to TASO's directive in when and how to wear them! Well, I guess when the UIL finally takes over all facets of football officiating(God forbid), then they can wear black thongs if they want to, provided that they come equipped with that cute little black embroidered UIL logo that some of the other UIL sports officiating organizations are currently wearing! z^
-
After reading the last few posts. I think that the uil is broke down.
FIFY
-
Does anyone know if the TASO board has met on this yet? I thought they were meeting on 2/18.
-
They will be optional this year. The new president made a great point about trying to get the knickers phased out so guys don't keep buying knickers as they need replacement pants in the coming years.
-
Mike,
Will the light weight blacks and short sleeve be optional as well?
Brad
-
I assumed that Honigs and the others would have light weight black pants on their sites by now but I was wrong.......................................
-
The lightweight and short sleeves will be an option from week 0 on. I believe our board will be checking vendors to find the one(s) that sell the pants so they help us all look uniform.
-
I talked to Dick Honig this past week and was told that they will be carrying a light weight black pants.
-
Any other updates from the meeting? Any update on the lawsuit?
-
Lawsuit obviously continues. No forecasted date for anything from the court. Sounded like even if court decision is unfavorable, it will go to the 5th Circut Court on appeal. For now we are on status quo. Business as usual, sort of. If some agreement cannot be reached behind the scenes before Mar 1, UIL will likely start pushing to get guys/chapters registered with them. But we (TASO Football) are going forward with clinic and independent study planning, member registration, recruiting, game assigning, etc.
Something that needs to be mentioned it the amount of time and effort that our elected leaders (Board and Chapter Presidents and Secretarys put in over the weekend to try to come up with something that both TASO and UIL can live with. We truly are fortunate to have guys who take this so seriously they are willing to put personal things on hold to benefit us all. Especially noteworthy is the new Football President's daily and extensive effort in his 6 short weeks in office to find some sort of resolution for us outside the courts. Even though whatever agreement is reached would have to be done likely with some sort of blessing from the court, doing this outside the court shows good faith on both sides' part.
No major mechanics changes. The KO mechanics will remain the same although everyone recognized the issues. No solution which does not create new issues could be found.
Good briefing on the State Clinic. It sounds like a real departure from the past and will be run more like a camp than a convention. If people want to learn, they will definitely have the opportunity. There will also be more informal training opportunities than in the past during the 2 days.
Those who procrastinate on dues and taking the test in Jul/Aug may find things a bit more expensive in the future. The test will be available earlier so there will be plenty of time to knock it out.
-
Doesn't sound like Cooper has had any luck with Timmons. Did they even meet?
Any deal that can be reached would not need Court approval. Typically, settlements are handled out of Court and are simply written up and they become a matter of contract agreement. Sometimes agreements are written up as part of a court order, or Final Judgment. Again, court typically won't second guess a judgment agreed to by all parties.
-
I did not mean to imply the court would make the agreement. One of the TASO attorneys was present and he indicated the agreement would be made into a court order.
TT and Cooper have met and tried to get this thing ironed out. We are remarkably close to something that probably less than ideal for each side but that is what negotiation is about. To repeat a phrase that was said at the meeting..."Divorce is not an option." Neither side can survive without the other. We just need to find a way to get along for the kid's sake.
-
TASO has a "summer uniform" with shorts. It isn't made clear, I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong), in the TASO manual about when such a uniform is appropriate. With a move to black pants, do you see more chapters adopting shorts as approved in subvarsity during the first month or so of the season? I just don't want to see a situation where guys show up for subvarsity games in pants AND knickers, and I don't think a lot of guys are going to rush out and buy they don't feel they have to. Everyone already has shorts, and wearing them for a little while would give them time and $ to go get pants.
I applaud the change, but the first year or two is going to be a mess in situations where communication is less than stellar. That happens in subvarsity and non-crew varsity assignments.
-
I think the expectation is that knickers are the "default" uniform for all games, sub-varsity included. Only if all officials agree in advance to wear black, can they work black. So, knickers will likely be the "rule" for subvarsity because I just do not see the level of communication necessary to get everyone on Tuesday night on the same page.
-
I certainly wouldn't see the introduction of a knicker replacement (long pants) having anything to do with shorts for SV.
Brad
-
I applaud the change, but the first year or two is going to be a mess in situations where communication is less than stellar. That happens in subvarsity and non-crew varsity assignments.
Even on crews I would think at least for the first year or two a pair of knickers in the bag will be mandatory. You never know when you have a last minute sub or a member of the crew forgot his black pants. I know my crew will have knickers in the bag this year even if we never wear them
-
Even on crews I would think at least for the first year or two a pair of knickers in the bag will be mandatory. You never know when you have a last minute sub or a member of the crew forgot his black pants. I know my crew will have knickers in the bag this year even if we never wear them
^flag
After having visited with my District Director, I was informed that as far as TASO State Football is concerned, crews will remain free to wear either the knickers or the black pants for the 2011 football season. I hope that this answers a lot of the questions being put forth about this. In a nutshell, at least for Texas high school football games, black pants will be optional and certainly not mandatory! z^
-
Shorts on Thursday, period. Never knickers unless freezing!
-
I'm going to go play golf in my knickers now! I'm on the lookout for some cool sox!
-
Shorts on Thursday, period. Never knickers unless freezing!
In San Antone? You are kidding me.....................
-
I'm going to go play golf in my knickers now! I'm on the lookout for some cool sox!
you can dye em and get you one of those funny hats.
yEs: yEs: :bOW tiphat: aWaRd ^flag yEs: yEs:
-
In San Antone? You are kidding me.....................
Happens very rarely during subvarsity season, but it has happened! So, that just means shorts every Thursday!
-
If some agreement cannot be reached behind the scenes before Mar 1, UIL will likely start pushing to get guys/chapters registered with them.
Does the March 1 deadline indicate the TRO expires today? If not, why March 1?
-
Does the March 1 deadline indicate the TRO expires today? If not, why March 1?
The injunction is in place until trial (or the Court of Appeals rules different, or the trial court grants the UIL's motion to dismiss).
-
The only thing the injunction did was stall the 1204 change. It did not prohibit UIL from registering officials nor did it prevent UIL from recruiting officials. The previous 1204 permitted UIL to use "UIL officials" so there was/is no requirement for anyone to be in TASO to officiate today. The Mar 1 date was a "gentleman's agreement" re football.