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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TXMike on April 20, 2011, 10:09:23 AM

Title: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: TXMike on April 20, 2011, 10:09:23 AM
Take a look at this document dating back to 2006

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/leaguer/leaguer-archives/apr_may_2006.pdf
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: TXMike on April 20, 2011, 12:07:52 PM
Page 10 is where the article is
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Arbitrator on April 20, 2011, 12:32:17 PM
Page 10 is where the article is

...and notoriously authored by one of the more noteable standing defendants tiphat: in TASO's  current litigation with the Manor Road Crowd! Now that's what's rich!   z^
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: WABill on April 20, 2011, 06:07:22 PM
While there may be more games worked under NCAA rules in Texas versus the NCAA, he sure is arrogant in the relative worth of the comments and rule changes suggested by Texas coaches.  That's right, I forgot who authored the article.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Etref on April 20, 2011, 08:19:24 PM
While there may be more games worked under NCAA rules in Texas versus the NCAA, he sure is arrogant in the relative worth of the comments and rule changes suggested by Texas coaches.  That's right, I forgot who authored the article.

Actually, many of the NCAA rule changes were made to counter what TX HS coaches could come up with................................ ;D
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Cooter on April 21, 2011, 11:06:13 AM
Why not NFHS?  More readily available training material - no "exceptions to the rules" - follows 99% of other state HS football programs - seriously - what is the problem, other than hatred for UIL?
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: DallasLJ on April 21, 2011, 11:33:12 AM
Why not NFHS?  More readily available training material - no "exceptions to the rules" - follows 99% of other state HS football programs - seriously - what is the problem, other than hatred for UIL?
  I think it helps make Texas officials easier picks for the next level since we already officiate to the NCAA rules.  I think it make the plays more ready because they also play to those rules.  Face guarding, able to get back on defensive offisides, etc.  Small differences matter.  There is plent of NCAA rules materials -- why go backwards!
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: TXMike on April 21, 2011, 11:51:16 AM
The most significant issue I see is the retraining that would be required.  Is the state really willing to accept the diminished performance of officials while they retrain?  Plus, how many of us are willing to take on the efFort of retraining?
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Etref on April 21, 2011, 12:03:28 PM
Going from NCAA to NFHS makes about as much sense to me as Chinese arithmetic
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Grant - AR on April 21, 2011, 12:04:20 PM
Going from NCAA to NFHS makes about as much sense to me as Chinese arithmetic

(http://i.ehow.com/images/a05/6u/bk/chinese-math-activities-kids-2.1-120X120.jpg)
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Cooter on April 21, 2011, 12:17:48 PM
Going from NCAA to NFHS makes about as much sense to me as Chinese arithmetic

Are the differences really that great?  I've never worked NFHS but have studied them to some degree - didn't really think they were in complete conflict with NCAA other than in very few areas.  I'm not wanting a lesson on NFHS - just curious about the reluctance to change - some above points make sense - but I don't see a change as a deal killer - would you stop officiating if we went to NFHS???
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: rickref on April 21, 2011, 12:23:16 PM
Why not NFHS?  More readily available training material - no "exceptions to the rules" - follows 99% of other state HS football programs - seriously - what is the problem, other than hatred for UIL?

I have never had issues finding training material.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: jjseikel on April 21, 2011, 12:44:42 PM
  I think it helps make Texas officials easier picks for the next level since we already officiate to the NCAA rules.

BINGO!

Are the differences really that great?  I've never worked NFHS but have studied them to some degree - didn't really think they were in complete conflict with NCAA other than in very few areas.

The officials that I have met from Texas would have no problem adapting to NFHS rules for HS contests and still being able to retain and apply NCAA rules for college games, (Yes, they are almost as sharp as Oklahoma officials. ;)) but why would the powers that be even consider adding to the challenges that learning, applying and enforcing two sets of rules codes presents? Texas football officials already have the best of both worlds.. NCAA rules and TASO!

Just an opinion from North of the Red River.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: JasonTX on April 21, 2011, 12:55:16 PM
Are the differences really that great?  I've never worked NFHS but have studied them to some degree - didn't really think they were in complete conflict with NCAA other than in very few areas.  I'm not wanting a lesson on NFHS - just curious about the reluctance to change - some above points make sense - but I don't see a change as a deal killer - would you stop officiating if we went to NFHS???

I'm not sure I would quit, but I don't think I could be as dedicated at the rules if we were to switch.  Some of the NFHS rules make no sense to me.  You'd probably see a lot a games under NFHS being officated by officials using NCAA rules.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Coby on April 21, 2011, 01:44:08 PM
As much as everyone says Texas has some of the best QB's it is the OL and DL that have been taught how to cut someone that the college coaches love to recruit.  Texas is one of only a couple of states that says you must teach in order to coach.  This leads to higher quality of coaches and techniques being taught.  Too many kids would get hurt cut blocking someone as taught by the idiot volunteer coach.  Almost every coach I have ever talked to prefers NCAA to NFHS in Texas and abroad.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: TXMike on April 21, 2011, 07:17:13 PM
would you stop officiating if we went to NFHS???

Yep
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Etref on April 21, 2011, 07:54:49 PM
Ditto


Worked Fed rules one year and hated it. Have no plans to learn them.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: GWK on April 21, 2011, 08:40:23 PM
- would you stop officiating if we went to NFHS???

Going on my 33rd year, I do wonder when I will retire from officiating.  I don't yet know for sure, but can absolutely say that a move to NF rules away from NCAA would do it.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: TexDoc on April 21, 2011, 10:42:36 PM
would you stop officiating if we went to NFHS???

Yep.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Frank in FL on April 22, 2011, 09:45:22 AM
We have quite a few guys who officiate HS games using FED rules and NCAA game using thier rules.  They don't seem to have a problem.  Also during the year we officiate a lot of games using FED, NCAA, NFL and variations of all of them (semi pro, public service league, etc).  We don't seem to have a problem there either.  I'm not saying Texas should change, just that I don't think it would be as much of a problem as you think.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Welpe on April 22, 2011, 10:15:00 AM
There are quite a few significant differences between NCAA and NFHS rules.  Many having to do with penalty enforcement but one of the significant ones is blocking below the waist.  The contrast will not be as big this year compared to previous years but there will still be some differences.

I cut my teeth officiating under NFHS rules so for me personally, it would not be much of a hardship.  I think NFHS rules are simpler but the amount of retraining needed would obviously lead to some growing pains for the several years.  It wouldnt cause me to quit officiating...I'd probably end up volunteering to teach some of the classes that covered the rule differences.  That said, now that I've learned the NCAA rules, I find that I prefer them to Fed.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Joe Stack on April 25, 2011, 04:25:17 PM
I think we would lose significant numbers of officials. How much change between payment, UIL/TASO, uniforms, now rules, not to mention gas prices, can some people take? I hear about people leaving other sports in droves, and we are not retaining the same numbers of new guys as we have in the past.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Sumstine on April 25, 2011, 07:23:56 PM
NCAA is a much safer rule book (with the exception of the low block by B linemen sideline to sideline and A qualified linemen and backs). There are rules in the NFHS book that make the game less fan friendly. IE: All but one enforcement, OPI loss of yardage and down, face guarding, forward fumble for a first down, QB can't throw the ball away and allowing plays to start with team A fouls at the snap. The NCAA rule book still has some holes but it is far superior from a safety and fan entertainment standpoint. I would love to see the NFHS and NCAA join forces and create a uniform rule book (primarily NCAA) and training program.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Welpe on April 25, 2011, 07:47:35 PM
allowing plays to start with team A fouls at the snap.

Matt, I'm not following what you mean here.  Could you expand please?
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Sumstine on April 26, 2011, 11:42:56 AM
The NCAA rule change for shifts and being set is a very good change. See attached.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Welpe on April 26, 2011, 03:24:52 PM
Ah OK, I see what you are referring to.  But, don't we still have some Team A fouls at the snap that allow the ball to become live such as the other type of illegal shift, illegal motion, etc?
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Sumstine on April 26, 2011, 04:13:36 PM
Two men moving at the snap and we are going to shut it down for a FST, Illegal motion is possible but only in a shaving situation the early cut is still a FST. The shaving of the line is very rare and I would like to see that one thrown in with the rest as a FST. I believe the shift was put in to assist with the 10 second run off rule. I like both changes.
Title: Re: UIL re Changing to NFHS Rules
Post by: Welpe on April 26, 2011, 04:51:44 PM
I did not realize all illegal shifts were being turned into dead ball fouls, I only thought the illegal shift after breaking the huddle would be a dead ball foul.  Interesting.