RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TexDoc on September 03, 2011, 02:10:01 PM
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Does TASO now allow us to wear the new college shirts for high school games? I noticed the crew in the Calallen/Gregory Portland game did.
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By mechanics manual, it should be the 1" striped shirt. I like the look of the 2" with the black pants better, though, and I think TASO should go 2" stripe and get rid of the knickers for good.
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Video
http://www.kiiitv.com/story/15388175/sports-blitz (http://www.kiiitv.com/story/15388175/sports-blitz)
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blue beanbags, too?
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I thought that shirts with placards were to be only worn at televised games. Was this a televised game?
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I think it is LIVE televised games not games that are televised after the fact
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I'm not sure you can buy a 2" shirt without a letter on the back.
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Perhaps when the UIL takes over the rest of the free world, they will lets us use them. >:D
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I watched a couple of games on TV this weekend and came to the conclusion that the position placards look better than not having them. That being said...when I was a new HS official, I would have needed 4 different placards or shirts (some of them are screened in now), to work because I was a floater and worked a lot of different positions on different crews. So from that standpoint, it wouldn't work very well.
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Now I'm curious as to whether or not the college folks gave these guys permission to wear those shirts in a non-college game. I doubt they did.
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Permission ain't required from the NCAA, CFO, or anybody related to collegiate officiating. These shirts are not trade-marked, ala NFL attire. TASO is the only one with a dog in this hunt. This clearly shows how divisive this whole TASO/UIL thing has been. The statement these guys made is, "Screw everybody. We'll wear what we want to wear. TASO can't/won't do anything to us - we'll just go UIL - they'll let us wear tu-tus if we'll sign up."
Probably what it is like to be paid for sex.
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blue beanbags, too?
OH THE INSANITY!!!!! P_S Wonder what the taso po'po has lined out for these deviants.
NCAA shirts, a tad more egregious than blue bean bags, but they didn't have to get "permission" to wear them, at least from the NCAA.
I understand the placard argument, but most chapters have "crews" now and if a crew wants to all wear placards, regardless of TV, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? Like the black pants vs the knickers. Whatever the crew decides the whole crew does. It would not be good to make placards a "requirement" for issues stated previously, but simply an option.
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You can bet your sweet bippy if UIL was in control, they would not have the option to wear the placards or not. They are not going to be any less stringent about a UNIFORM uniform than is TASO.
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Let's keep in mind a couple of things: this is the first year the college officials are wearing anything that is substantially different than what we wear in (TASO) HS. That doesn't mean much of anything -- TASO could change next year to that uniform. They won't for several reasons, but they may make a partial change -- eliminate knickers or at least make knickers optional (opposite of what the choices are this year). As I stated earlier, I don't think you can buy the 2" shirts without a letter and TASO is not going to go to 2" since subvarsity coordination would be brutal. Wear your "B" or "S" shirt on a jr. high 3 man game!
As far as what UIL would do if they were in charge isn't relevant. What is relevant is that we need TASO to stop being reactive and be more forward thinking with things like uniforms. Some of these district directors need to get off their BUTT and stop running for their office solely to improve their game schedule. They need to find out what the members want and work toward implementing those things. Right now, you'd find an 80+% support for eliminating knickers completely, just as one example. I'm sure there are other uniform change ideas.
HOWEVER, I don't like the idea of guys thinking, "screw TASO, I and my crew will wear whatever the hell we want." Instead, let's put good leadership in place and get sensible changes.
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Basketball had that issue when the Grey shirts came out. It was bad when crews would show up with different colored shirts because they didnt communicate with each other. Now Grey is mandatory for all varsity games and is even used for the state tournament. At lease this crew were all on the same page and not like other crews who have wrist bands and shirts that dont match. I think the 2 inch looks a lot better than the other shirts. TASO has no input in the UIL basketball tournament and have no say in football as well.
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This just in.....
ALL OFFICIALS WORKING TEXAS HIGH SCHOOL VARSITY GAMES MUST WEAR THE APPROVED UNIFORM.
Unless approved by the TASO-Football Board of Directors, officials may not work varsity football games in anything other than the approved uniform. You are permitted to wear knickers or long black pants, but no other variations are allowed. It has come to my attention that some officials are working high school games wearing an NCAA collegiate shirt with 2” stripes. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND MUST STOP IMMEDIATELY! The NFL and NCAA purposely adopted shirts that are unique to their level of play. It is inappropriate for high school officials to wear an NCAA or NFL shirt while working high school games. The required uniform is clearly described the TASO mechanics manual and the UIL and TAPPS fully support the requirement that Texas high school football officials wear a 1” stripe shirt, not the 2” stripped NCAA collegiate shirt. There will be no exceptions made.
Cooper
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good for Cooper.
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Not that I am advocating doing so, or would do so, but what "punishment" would doers of said deeds be looking at from a TASO perspective.
Does that include the bean bags? P_S
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Not that I am advocating doing so, or would do so, but what "punishment" would doers of said deeds be looking at from a TASO perspective.
Does that include the bean bags? P_S
What punishment would you think appropriate?
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Baseball has had multiple uniforms for years. I myself have a closet full of powder blue, navy, cream, pro powder, black and even way in the back...a red uni. What's the issue? Wear 2" on Friday, wear 1" in Sub varsity. It's not like I would throw out the 1" if I got a 2". I work college and HS and a little indoor. Guess what? I have multiple uniforms. It wouldn't be much to me to make sure I have the right one on the right day. If you can't do that, maybe you should take up another vocation.
Mountain....meet the molehill.
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Baseball has had multiple uniforms for years. I myself have a closet full of powder blue, navy, cream, pro powder, black and even way in the back...a red uni. What's the issue? Wear 2" on Friday, wear 1" in Sub varsity. It's not like I would throw out the 1" if I got a 2". I work college and HS and a little indoor. Guess what? I have multiple uniforms. It wouldn't be much to me to make sure I have the right one on the right day. If you can't do that, maybe you should take up another vocation.
Mountain....meet the molehill.
That may be something a veteran can handle, but when when a new official joins we try to keep their expenses at a minimum. Requiring them to have 2 different styles of shirts would be asking too much of them.
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That's why we make them optional. In baseball, the default is navy but if all umpires want to wear black, they can. Besides, most chapters have no or few officials working varsity their first year, and those that have first years working varsity probably would go with the default uniform.
Look, I realize the shirt talk is sexy and I do agree that the wide stripes look better with the black pants, but one thing at a time: let's rid ourselves of the knickers and in a year or two go with the optional 2" stripes. Keep in mind that through last year, you had to wear long sleeve shirts with the pants, and pants were only approved 2 years ago. Meaning, things can change pretty fast and if baseball is any example, we move toward what higher levels do fairly quickly.
Does anyone recall crews wearing black pants before they were approved? Did TASO say anything then?
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What punishment would you think appropriate?
I dunno, do you develop levels of punishment for documented instances uniform malfeasance? IE, blue beanbags, placards, US Flag in wrong location, NCAA shirts, etc.
One thing is sure, there are no prescribed punishments at this time and although the crew in question got at least a trifecta of crimes against the mechanics manual and there is nothing documenting (that I know of) what can be done to punish them, other than saying.... don't do that again.
So now we have a special statement, isn't that already covered in the mechanics manual? So what about the next group that does something like a placard, will we see the second action and flag it and let the first get away with it?
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This is probably a violation of a code of conduct or the Chapter by-laws. This is a matter that could be referred to the chapter ethics committee. If so, it could result in suspension, probation or letter of reprimand. Everyone assumes this is just a TASO violation problem. If the local chapter exhibited true leadership, it would take it's own action against these violators. Personal conduct violations are personal conduct violations.
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It seems that years ago, in the SFOA days, when we went to socks a crew worked a playoff game wearing the old stirrup socks and was punished by SOA. I could be mistaken but I seem to remember that happening.
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You know it seems to me that if the crew all wears the same thing ...who. cares,
Maybe Coop and Tx Mike should work more on concerns such as rules, training and recruiting of
new offcials than how pretty we look, Really...upset about blue or white bean bags?
Sounds like someones getting close to retirement. Oh and by the way when UIL was asked if TASO as punishment could prevent a chapter or offcial from working a playoff game,,,the answer was...They have no such power. The chaptersBOD thought is more on having ther crews work a good game not 1" or 2".
I am thinking the new direction of our TASO Football leadership is losing sight on whats really important.
This is sad. Good luck Coop and Tx mike on your retirement.
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So then, summer uniform is okay -- just so long as you call a good game? Standard are standards for a reason. If you cannot handle the little things, how can you be trusted to handle the big things.
Is it really so hard to follow the rules?
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How can we enforce the rules if we can"t follow our own rules?
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You know it seems to me that if the crew all wears the same thing ...who. cares,
Maybe Coop and Tx Mike should work more on concerns such as rules, training and recruiting of
new offcials than how pretty we look, Really...upset about blue or white bean bags?
Sounds like someones getting close to retirement. Oh and by the way when UIL was asked if TASO as punishment could prevent a chapter or offcial from working a playoff game,,,the answer was...They have no such power. The chaptersBOD thought is more on having ther crews work a good game not 1" or 2".
I am thinking the new direction of our TASO Football leadership is losing sight on whats really important.
This is sad. Good luck Coop and Tx mike on your retirement.
You know your are either a troll or an idiot!
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Awesome. I'll let my crew know we're wearing swim trunks and sleeveless Red Hot Chili Peppers shirts this Friday. Save me from having to do laundry.
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speed-o or board shorts?????
Makes a big difference
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You know it seems to me that if the crew all wears the same thing ...who. cares,
Maybe Coop and Tx Mike should work more on concerns such as rules, training and recruiting of
new offcials than how pretty we look, Really...upset about blue or white bean bags?
Sounds like someones getting close to retirement. Oh and by the way when UIL was asked if TASO as punishment could prevent a chapter or offcial from working a playoff game,,,the answer was...They have no such power. The chaptersBOD thought is more on having ther crews work a good game not 1" or 2".
I am thinking the new direction of our TASO Football leadership is losing sight on whats really important.
This is sad. Good luck Coop and Tx mike on your retirement.
If CC had any true leadership, they would take care of the problem.
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Isn't this a CC crew? It was my understanding that Corpus Chapter went UIL last year and therefore are not under the TASO jurisdiction any longer. I don't think the UIL has any idea what is going on Friday nights.
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They (or a part of the Chapter anyway)/....may have wanted to but they were not able to. Order in the lawsuit prevents that from taking place for now. They are still part of TASO.
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They (or a part of the Chapter anyway)/....may have wanted to but they were not able to. Order in the lawsuit prevents that from taking place for now. They are still part of TASO.
Well when the guys in the game are your local board members, then maybe expecting the chapter leadership to take care of it wont' work.
Why anyone feels the need to look different or special is beyond me. Seems like someone is saying "hey, look at me!!!" Good officials don't want to be noticed.
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Why anyone feels the need to look different or special is beyond me. Seems like someone is saying "hey, look at me!!!" Good officials don't want to be noticed.
This is the most succinct point in this whole thread.
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Wearing ncaa stripes changes the whole uniform and should be addressed rather severely...
Placards already OK'd for TV games should be optional for varsity games just like black pants and long sleeves, the default uniform for varsity should be knickers (for now) and short sleeve narrow stripes with no placard, and you always go to lowest common denominator. Not everyone has long sleeves, everyone will be cold, not everyone has placard for the position they are assigned, you wear no placards.. not everyone has black pants, it's knickers for you.... Seems pretty easy...
Bean bags, as long as they are all the same on a given game, they should be fine.
JMO of course...
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There's no question that FOR NOW, the 1" stripes are what we wear. None of this crew is all the same, so anything is OK crap.
However looking forward, pants should be the default, shorts allowed in Aug/Sept. subvarsity, and knickers should be burned at the stake. This should happen next year. If you want to debate shorts, fine, but most other states I've heard about are going exclusively pants. Obviously, we aren't going to wear shorts for varsity; very few schools have full (or top) grade uniforms for subvarsity (especially jr. high), and the proper belted shorts are NOT unprofessional. Sort of a business casual approach.
I also think we need to move toward 2" stripes. Not because its the in thing or to follow college, but for several other reasons:
1. They look better with the black pants;
2. TV games are increasing (even local small cable channels for highlights) and the 1" stripe doesn't work very well;
3. There's no real good reason to keep the 1". They work for hoops but a total break for a new uniform needs to do just that -- go new, not half new.
There are probably a few other good reasons. Although with 2", the position letters are an issue -- OK for crews but probably not a good idea for subvarsity. Does anyone know of suppliers that sell the 2" without the letters? If not, that would have to change.
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Bean bags, as long as they are all the same on a given game, they should be fine.
It seems like there's a test question every year about the bean bag color, so I guess TASO must care about this. Really, the only reason to wear blue (or black, or orange, or fuscia) bean bags is because that's what the big kids are wearing on TV on the weekends.
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I don't have a problem with white, it is what is dictated, so it is what we wear, but is the color of the bean bag really worth worrying about? (as long as they are all the same color).
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IMO bean bags being white was ok when we had the knickers, but i think they clash with the black pants so i say black bean bags when you wear the black pants.
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How does white clash with anything?
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How does white clash with anything?
Well, it is after labor day.
As hard as it is to admit, TexDoc hit the nail on the head by addressing this as a "look at me" attempt. Has no place in officiating.
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It was my opinion and i think the white bean bags hanging outside your belt clashes against the black pants.
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Well, it is after labor day.
As hard as it is to admit, TexDoc hit the nail on the head by addressing this as a "look at me" attempt. Has no place in officiating.
I'd like to use blue or another color bean bag just because I like them. Has nothing to do with wanting attention.
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It was my opinion and i think the white bean bags hanging outside your belt clashes against the black pants.
I know and this why I give thee sh&*.
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I'd like to use blue or another color bean bag just because I like them. Has nothing to do with wanting attention.
I was referring to the shirts, not the bean bags.
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Gotcha.
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I will forever challenge anyone who says we should require pants over knickers and everyone else be damned. I honestly can't see the attraction to those other than the fact that they're the new thing. Why does no one else seem to think they look like windbreakers? To me, everytime I see those, I think the officials just got back from jogging. It looks lazy, IMO and I hate those darn things. Knickers forevermore!
Blue beanbags...should go to them. The point of the bean bag is to inconspicuously mark necessary points on the field but shouldnt draw attention to it. Blue doesnt stand out as much as white so would be perfect for the change.
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Not sure I have ever heard anyone say the bag was to "inconspicuously" mark a spot. Seems to me the purpose would be to "clearly" mark a spot. The spots we are marking are important spots for various reasons. No need to be inconspicuous. If you want that, why not make them "turf green"?
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Clear, I felt almost as strongly as you last season, but after having worn them for all of my games this year, I won't go back to knickers. The pants are much more comfortable and I think they look fine.
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The new pants make me look 20 lbs. lighter. Oh, wait..I AM 20 lbs. lighter (yea for me). OK, they make me look more than 20 lbs lighter. ;D
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The new pants make me look 20 lbs. lighter. Oh, wait..I AM 20 lbs. lighter (yea for me). OK, they make me look more than 20 lbs lighter. ;D
Another reason for me to hate them...I dont need to look like Im 150 lbs.
TexDoc, I'm not debating their comfort or anything like that. Heck, it was mentioned on this(or was it another) thread that we could just go out in crocs and a T-Shirt as long as we called a game, so why bother with looking professional, right? Same argument applies here. It looks like crap, IMHO, so why would we do it? Either way, respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree.
Not sure I have ever heard anyone say the bag was to "inconspicuously" mark a spot. Seems to me the purpose would be to "clearly" mark a spot. The spots we are marking are important spots for various reasons. No need to be inconspicuous. If you want that, why not make them "turf green"?
I'm going off the mechanics manual that stresses not to throw bean bags, just to drop them where the spot is. Seems to me TASO wants us to use them for ourselves, not for the fans, coaches, TV, etc.
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A few seasons ago, before black pants were seriously being discussed, I was adamently opposed to going away from knickers. Now that the pants are here, I can't get away from them fast enough. As much as I hate to say it, they simply look antiquated. After wearing them last Friday, and having them and the socks dig into my calves, I can't wait to go away from them for good.
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^flag
I'm in agreement, Brad! I happened to be one of those stalwarts who ardently defended the knickers, but getting around to wearing the black pants was truly believing! The only other thing that I could offer is that if we are going to go with the black pants, then the wide-striped shirt should be made as mandatory apparel as well! With the black pants, they just naturally look better! z^
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TexDoc, I'm not debating their comfort or anything like that. Heck, it was mentioned on this(or was it another) thread that we could just go out in crocs and a T-Shirt as long as we called a game, so why bother with looking professional, right? Same argument applies here. It looks like crap, IMHO, so why would we do it? Either way, respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree.
I respect your opinion and thank you for your approach. That's why we have this forum (Thanks Grant!) so we can give our opinions and learn some rules and mechanics.
Hey, I still believe in a Acme Thunder and will never use a Fox 40 basketball whistle. It just doesn't sound like football to me, so I understand.
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Hey, I still believe in a Acme Thunder and will never use a Fox 40 basketball whistle. It just doesn't sound like football to me, so I understand.
Regardless of the fact that no one but you could hear it on kick-offs :)
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Regardless of the fact that no one but you could hear it on kick-offs :)
I can't deny that! It makes those kickers watch me though.
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I honestly can't see the attraction to those other than the fact that they're the new thing.
This tells me you haven't worn them. For virtually everyone that has, we can't go to them full time fast enough.
Do basketball officials' pants look like warm-ups? I realize they don't have the stripes, but from a distance, its hard to tell a difference between the two other than the white stripe. The pants seem to be the right mix of sporty-ness (if you will) rather than a pair of slacks, which on a football field wouldn't look right.
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I'm going off the mechanics manual that stresses not to throw bean bags, just to drop them where the spot is. Seems to me TASO wants us to use them for ourselves, not for the fans, coaches, TV, etc.
The "drop, not throw" is to ensure accuracy of spot not to make the deployment of the bag any less obvious. Having been in a game where I bagged (with a WHITE bag) an illegal touch spot on a controversial onside kick I can say I was ecstatic the bag was visible on the video.
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Do basketball officials' pants look like warm-ups? I realize they don't have the stripes, but from a distance, its hard to tell a difference between the two other than the white stripe. The pants seem to be the right mix of sporty-ness (if you will) rather than a pair of slacks, which on a football field wouldn't look right.
Im not a basketball fan, but dont NBA officials wear dress pants kind of like baseball umpires?
I dont get this 'theyre 1000x mpre comfortable' argument either. I play baseball with kickers-style pants with long socks and i move around just fine. Im a CF and led my league in SB last yr. Seems to me theyre comfortable enough to perform in.
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Dude, have you WORN them? If not, then maybe actually wearing them, you will "get it."
NBA officials wear (probably exclusively) Sansabelt brand pants. I think Honigs supplies MLB and most conference baseball umpires, though a few will wear one of about 3 or 4 other brands. The baseball pants are belted while the basketball pants aren't.
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^flag
I can unequivically say that in wearing the black football pants, I absolutely do not miss those elastic constriction bands on the legs of the knickers. The black pants are far more comfortable than I had ever thought they would be! z^
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Hey, I still believe in a Acme Thunder and will never use a Fox 40 basketball whistle. It just doesn't sound like football to me, so I understand.
:thumbup :thumbup :thumbup
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Rick...don't forget that when you come back, it will be Pink Fox 40 time for you!
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To get to come back sooner I would wear a pink tutu!
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After watching the Texas HS championships and a bunch of bowl games, Texas needs to SERIOUSLY consider adopting the wide stripped shirts for next year. Look better in general and more of an authority figure look as well.
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Joe -You hitting the bubbly a bit early? ? ?
How in the world does wider stripes equate to "more of an authority figure" ??? And even if there is some way to demonstrate that, is that soething we even need to be concerned with? You think the coaches are going to be more acceptable of our flags if we are wearing wide stripes? ? ? I wear them on Saturdays and get the same level of respect I get on Friday with narrow stripes. Everytime we incorporate new gear (socks and pants being the most recent changes) it costs bug bucks. Plus it makes it harder to pass on used stuff to new members since what was used before is no longer used.
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I just think they look more authoritative. Jerry Markbriet thought so too -- he mentioned it in one of his books. Coaches are but one of those making opinions on our calls.
As far as gear changes, I usually buy 1-2 new shirts (at minimum) every year as well as other gear. All that would really be required would be one (~$28), then perhaps a long sleeve for those working varsity. Because of work and a minor injury, I worked the fewest number of games this year as I ever have. I still made plenty to replace a small amount of gear. Except for 2 shirts that I only wore for varsity games for about two years (~20 games apiece), I wear out the rest of my stuff making giving it away insulting. It still looks fine, but the zippers are worn, there's a small stain on it, etc.
Cost will always be a factor and an excuse to not change.
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Probably a little late in the thread to bring it up but the crew at the Wimberly - Devine playoff game had blaze orange beanbags. I use white because that is what I am supposed to wear but I love the blaze orange.
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Probably a little late in the thread to bring it up but the crew at the Wimberly - Devine playoff game had blaze orange beanbags. I use white because that is what I am supposed to wear but I love the blaze orange.
Sounds like you're taking orders... firing up your sewing machine again...?
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Sounds like you're taking orders... firing up your sewing machine again...?
I have about 30 of the blaze oranges bags that I made while in VA. Now I cant use the blue ones much less the orange ones.
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I have about 30 of the blaze oranges bags that I made while in VA. Now I cant use the blue ones much less the orange ones.
About the only ones I have seen use them is Conference USA, heck find out when and where they have their spring meeting and set up a booth in the lobby.
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About the only ones I have seen use them is Conference USA, heck find out when and where they have their spring meeting and set up a booth in the lobby.
I thought the SunBelt used orange bean bags.
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I think you may be right, C-USA has those red looking things.............
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OMG!!! Enough about external uniforms! I want to hear TexDoc's and TXMike's expert opinions on jock straps!!
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Since that is your area of expertise maybe you would like to explain what you were doing here you old fart.....
(http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2011-03/324619200-07093911.JPG)
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Looking diligently for LSU's offense! FlAg1
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Looking diligently for LSU's offense! FlAg1
ROFLMFAO!
pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn pi1eOn