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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: indiotom on September 25, 2011, 11:42:46 PM
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Our high school fields are marked with the hash marks (parallel to sidelines) outside the optional yard line marks (parallel to goallines). The umpires like to spot the ball on the inside edge of the yard line marks, 2 feet inside the actual inbounds marks. Should I care?
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Our high school fields are marked with the hash marks (parallel to sidelines) outside the optional yard line marks (parallel to goallines). The umpires like to spot the ball on the inside edge of the yard line marks, 2 feet inside the actual inbounds marks. Should I care?
Yes, you should care.
This is a 'detail,' and attention to detail is what separates the better officials from others. First, verify with your rules if the ball is supposed to be at the inbounds line / hash mark, or if the rules specifically allow for it to be on or inside the inbounds line. I can't speak for NFHS, but for NCAA, if the dead-ball spot is outside the "hash marks" (officially re-named for NCAA in 2011), the ball is to be spotted at the hash mark, not inside.
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Yes, you should care.
This is a 'detail,' and attention to detail is what separates the better officials from others. First, verify with your rules if the ball is supposed to be at the inbounds line / hash mark, or if the rules specifically allow for it to be on or inside the inbounds line. I can't speak for NFHS, but for NCAA, if the dead-ball spot is outside the "hash marks" (officially re-named for NCAA in 2011), the ball is to be spotted at the hash mark, not inside.
On a properly marked field under NCAA the 60' inbounds spot or line is the inside edge of the hash mark. Check Appendix D.
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On a properly marked field under NCAA the 60' inbounds spot or line is the inside edge of the hash mark. Check Appendix D.
Now, this is some really fine detail, and I'll bet no one really cares, but you opened the door, counselor. Although neither 1-2-1-k nor Appendix D clearly specify that the hash marks are to be drawn to the inside or outside of 60' line, conventional thinking is, indeed, that the inner edge of the hash mark is on the 60' dimension. However, the hash marks are actually two-dimensional, i.e., in addition to being 24" long, they are 4" wide. Thus, when 7-1-1-b says that "... the ball shall be transferred to the hash mark," that means the ball should be on the hash mark. It doesn't say "...transferred to have the outer edge of the ball in alignment with the inner edge of the hash mark." Also, 8-4-2-b-1 and 8-6-2 specfy that the ball may be located "...on or between the hash marks." "On" means on. It doesn't mean immediately inside. It means on.
OK, so having said all that, in reality, virtually everyone places the ball just to the inside of the hash mark. But they could put it ON the hash mark and be totally correct, by rule. Do the teams care? No. Do they care about 2' of difference, as posed in the original question? Yes.
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Now, this is some really fine detail, and I'll bet no one really cares, but you opened the door, counselor. Although neither 1-2-1-k nor Appendix D clearly specify that the hash marks are to be drawn to the inside or outside of 60' line, conventional thinking is, indeed, that the inner edge of the hash mark is on the 60' dimension. However, the hash marks are actually two-dimensional, i.e., in addition to being 24" long, they are 4" wide. Thus, when 7-1-1-b says that "... the ball shall be transferred to the hash mark," that means the ball should be on the hash mark. It doesn't say "...transferred to have the outer edge of the ball in alignment with the inner edge of the hash mark." Also, 8-4-2-b-1 and 8-6-2 specfy that the ball may be located "...on or between the hash marks." "On" means on. It doesn't mean immediately inside. It means on.
OK, so having said all that, in reality, virtually everyone places the ball just to the inside of the hash mark. But they could put it ON the hash mark and be totally correct, by rule. Do the teams care? No. Do they care about 2' of difference, as posed in the original question? Yes.
Actually the hash marks are the lines made perpendicular to the yard lines. You will find them at each 5 yard line and clearly shown on Appendix D. They are to be exactly 60 feet from the sideline and are used for inbounds spots. Indiotom correctly described them as parallel to the sideline in his original post.
The rule book refers to the other lines that many (mac) refer to as hash marks as short yard-line extensions. We typically call these tick marks or tickers on our crew. My reference to Appendix D was to show that proper placement of the tickers is on the outside of the hash. If the tickers aren't placed properly, as he described, we should be using the hash mark.
Our high school fields are marked with the hash marks (parallel to sidelines) outside the optional yard line marks (parallel to goallines). The umpires like to spot the ball on the inside edge of the yard line marks, 2 feet inside the actual inbounds marks. Should I care?
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The rule book refers to the other lines that many (mac) refer to as hash marks as short yard-line extensions.
Really? Where did I say that?
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Really? Where did I say that?
Sorry. You didn't, I guess I incorrectly inferred it from the 2' difference comment. I'll slow my read down a little.
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Sorry. You didn't, I guess I incorrectly inferred it from the 2' difference comment. I'll slow my read down a little.
No sweat.
Tweeet - ready for play.... :)
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Considering the fields I get to see I wouldn't even know a properly marked field if I saw it.
Because there are few dedicated Football fields the localization of the rules (for instance) for us says that the field is to be made of 12 equal sized zone - so a field that is 100 yards long (including end zones) will have '10 yard' marks a bit longer than 8 yards (and the chain is adjusted for it) - or a field might be 120 meters long and have '10 yard' zones that are basically 11 yards long.
Hash marks are a guess when they can be seen at all.
Pylons usually fall down or are blown away.
The uprights are sometimes PVC tubing ducttaped to a soccer goal (and they bend in the wind!)