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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on September 26, 2011, 08:47:13 PM
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A is down 2 with 15 seconds left and no timeouts at B-20. QB drops back to pass and scrambles. He is hit 2 yds behind NZ and throws ball as he falls to ground. Ball falls incomplete. U is signalling for inc pass. H is coming in hard as he saw QB's knee down before ball released. Clock operator stopped clock momentarily at :08 but wound when he saw H and R signal to wind after they noticed it had been stopped. Time expires before U can get ball and spot. Whatcha gonna do?
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First of all, IMHO, the Umpire should not rule on completion/incompletion of a pass unless it is apparent the covering officials (wings, BJ) have no idea. Then if you have positive knowledge, make the call. If the U had hesitated, this probably wouldn't have been an issue. I always defer to the Wings unless they give me that deer in the headlights look.
That all being said, in this scenario, game over. Even if the passer had been ruled down with no clock stoppage, would 8 seconds be enough for the U to get to the ball, place it and R whistle RFP?
Best regards,
Brad
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Obviously it wouldn't have been enough time because they stopped the clock (at least breifly) and so the he had more than 8 Sec to get the ball and didn't.
I don't see a problem. OK the clock was stopped very shortly, but it was corrected.
Game over.
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Missing the bigger problem here IMHO. When the U signals INC then Team A knows time is stopped and they'll get another snap. When, probably very unexpectedly, they get a wind we've got a team that was catching their breath, getting organized, and now suddenly is in fire-drill mode. Also, 8 seconds is right on the threshold time needed to get a play off in the hurry-up if they know immediately that the clock is still running.
I agree with SATCFI, the U should leave the passing game calls to those in better position to make the call unless they give the agreed on indication that they need help.
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The other part of the question: when the U called it incomplete, did he stop and not move to get the ball spotted? After all, he thought the clock was stopped and he had plenty of time.
I think the crew needs to get together and evaluate WHY the ball couldn't get spotted. If it had been 3-4 seconds, then of course, the game is over. If it was 12 -15 seconds, then obviously, time should be put back. But 8 seconds? As NVFOA said, that's right on the edge. I think the crew needs to decide if their confusing calls contributed to the clock running out. If so, fix it. If not, it's over.
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I have no problem with the U killing the clock in this play if the ball landed in his area. With the QB under duress, this pass could of went anywhere. I also have no problem with winding it back up when the play was called dead. This is just one of those things, kind of like calling it between the uprights. Poop occurs sometimes, better clock management would make this a moot arguement.
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I have no problem with the U killing the clock in this play if the ball landed in his area. With the QB under duress, this pass could of went anywhere. I also have no problem with winding it back up when the play was called dead. This is just one of those things, kind of like calling it between the uprights. Poop occurs sometimes, better clock management would make this a moot arguement.
When we make a mistake, we also need to make sure that we also use fair clock management. In this case I would suggest a clear announcement that we did not have an INC, we had a player down by contact, and then using best judgment as to how much the inadvertent INC call impacted the players, only then wind the clock. If we have subs starting in, or the QB half-way to the sideline to get a call, then we've made the mistake and caused the problem. We need to fix the problem as best we can and Team A's clock management has absolutely nothing to do with this - that's a lame excuse that has nothing to do with our mistake.
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That play is reviewable. If you have replay the the RO will sort it out.
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This play is not reviewable. Team A has no timeouts remaining. 12-3-5-C
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And it was a Texas HS game so review is not an option anyway {for now ;) }