RefStripes.com
Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: Welpe on October 07, 2011, 12:20:21 PM
-
A buddy of mine from IL was watching the Allen vs Plano East game last night and commented on the bands playing during a live ball. Now NCAA rules prohibit the band from making noise that interferes with a team's signals but is this ever enforced and if so, when? It seems pretty common around here for bands to continue playing right through the game without any regard to what is actually happening during the game.
Is this one of those things that is just ignored here? Where I'm from, bands never played during live balls so it is a different experience to be sure.
-
Welllll.....interesting you should bring this up.....
It has recently become an issue in San Antonio area. So much so that there will be a recommendation made to TASO for a protocol to be added to mechanics manual to deal with this.
The times when a band in the regular stands can be so loud as to interfere with a team hearing its snap count are very rare. The real concern are these temporary stands we are seeing more and more in the end zones. They are often much closer to the field and are often where the band is being stuck. They do have the potential to be interfering.
If I, as the back judge, can hear the QB's signals, it is hard to argue his team can't hear them.
-
It is covered in the "CCR" ( Constitution,Contest Rules of UIL) and is supposed to be prohibited but it is the job of the administrator ( yeah right, I know) to handle the situation.
-
Where in the CCR Rick? I know artificial noisemakers are prohibited in gyms and fieldhouse but was not aware of anything on bands
-
It has been several years ( 1996) when I was secretary of the Amarillo Chapter and I saw it then. I have talked with some coaches about it since then and they all "remembered" it also.
It may have been taken out but I know it used to be in there.
Perhaps TT might know................................................
-
I went through it pretty thoroughly and saw nothing and did a search for other documents. I did end up discovering "District Plans"" for many districts. They are pretty interesting as they have all the details in there about pre-game activities, tie breaker procedures, how to get officials, etc etc. None of the district plans mentioned the band playing during the game but i suspect there may be some distriocts that have put in such rules.
-
I think that I would still refer it to the School administrator. I ain't gettin' all them band parents made at me!
-
While i agree we should give the game administrator a chance to quietthe offending band during pre-snap time, I am not sure on the mechanics for doing so. Should we pause the game and seek him out, should we warn the band's team's coach that his team may be penalized if the band continues interfering with the snap count, should we wait until a logical break in the game to deal with it, etc etc?
-
I think this is a non-issue at our level.
-
Were you at the meeting Monday?
-
I had this problem in one of my games last year. Bands come out of the stand about about 6 mins left in 2nd qtr to "warm up." Why they need to do this is beyond me since they have been playing in the stand the entire time. One band gets on the track and the director obviously has his band start playing as loud as possible when the other team gets close to scoring a touchdown. When the O took a t.o. I look at the band director and shake my head. He knew. They didn't do that crap again.
-
^flag
I think that we have all encountered this particular dilemma at one time or another, and just like TexDoc said, we have glared at the band director to make him stop this stuff and thus made them tone it down a tad, or just ignore us altogether. Don't really think that there's anything in the NCAA rules that could help us out with this that the :bOW Manor Road Crowd would actually give any real credence to.
The :bOW UIL has seemingly delegated this responsibility to the Administrators, who more often than not, are doing little to nothing about it, quite often without any kind of intervention on the part of :bOW Manor Road. They don't have time for enforcing what it is that they actually put into words; they're just way too busy trying to make money for themselves and trying to form a pi1eOn tinhorn officials organization that it can call its very own! z^
-
The NCAA rules do have a provision we can use, although like flagging an extended halftime, I doubt many guys will be willing to use it. The offending band's team can be hit with a 15 yard uns conduct penalty. Preventative officiating would have us warning the offending band, via the game administrator or coach, that we will have to enforce that rule if they continue.
-
The NCAA rules do have a provision we can use, although like flagging an extended halftime, I doubt many guys will be willing to use it. The offending band's team can be hit with a 15 yard uns conduct penalty. Preventative officiating would have us warning the offending band, via the game administrator or coach, that we will have to enforce that rule if they continue.
^flag
If they really want something done about this, then this is something that Dr. Redding and the NCAA Rules Committee need to place added emphasis upon in its rules commentary for the 2012 football season. I seriously have doubts that this has been enforced of late at the collegiate level, if ever at the Texas High School level! z^
-
I know it has been "enforced" at the HS level (but by preventative means, not punishing means) in San Antonio area this year. But I have not seen it at the collegiate level and I see LOTS of collegiate film. Perhaps this would be a good topic for a rule change suggestion for 2012/2013, remove it from the book entirely.
-
This is a field in the Hill Country close to San Antonio. Notice the stands just outside of each end zone? That's for both home and visiting bands, home in the east ez, visitors to the west. This place has been a problem before. The bands don't always stay in the stands and sometimes have a habit of spreading across the length of the end line, 12 feet out of course, and warm up for half time. Funny how they don't need to warm up or play when their team has the ball driving to the ez closest to their band.
I'm not sure if this image will come through or not.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Another one that I've worked where there was a problem. In this case, only the home team band is right there outside the north ez. Notice not stands at the south end. Hmmmmm.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allen has been doing this for years. I remember at one game vs. Plano doing the chains as a newbie and my head ringing because how loud their band would play when they were on defense. Because of that most the Plano teams willd othe same thing to them when they are on offense. Clark stadium seem to enclose all the soukd even though the open end on one side.
-
Just saw this clip from Saturday....right on target with the talk here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8uKg8P47m4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8uKg8P47m4)
-
Slash their throats Randy!
-
Slash their throats Randy!
Clearly UNS...where's the flag, ref?!
-
You want him to flag himself? ? ?
-
He could get one of his crew members to do it, but that would be a bit awkward, no?
-
You want him to flag himself? ? ?
Mike, give your humor filter a kick, I think it's stuck. ;)
-
Mike, give your humor filter a kick, I think it's stuck. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x1wf7jdawM
-
Suggest you look at how the Georgia High School Association handles it. Was a problem for a while in isolated cases there. Isn't one now.
-
We are officials. We should model.
Soccer rules say no jewelry for players OR officials. Ergo, I take my wedding ring off when I work soccer.
Football rules say no throat-slashy - officials should set a better example than this.
-
He was not using the throat slash in a way that players use it which is considered uns conduct. That is a common (down here anwyay) signal to tell some one to stop something. Interesting that you would find fault in something like this with someone who has officiated at the level this R has IN MULTIPLE SPORTS.
-
He was not using the throat slash in a way that players use it which is considered uns conduct. That is a common (down here anwyay) signal to tell some one to stop something. Interesting that you would find fault in something like this with someone who has officiated at the level this R has IN MULTIPLE SPORTS.
I think you missed the point. We are models. We shouldn't drop f-bombs, if we're expecting the players to use nothing harsher than what Ned Flanders would utter in church.
I'm not unaware of the meaning of the gesture the r used. But it is a gesture that is forbidden in the game. Ergo, the R should not use it, in my mind. He could have achieved the same result by waggling his index finger side to side while shaking his head. Far less inappropriate, no?
The fact this chap may be a stellar official in multiple sports is of no bears bearing to the fact he used a gesture that a player would have been penalized for using.
-
A player would not be penalized for using it unless he used it in a way that was unsportsmanlike conduct.
-
A player would not be penalized for using it unless he used it in a way that was unsportsmanlike conduct.
I'm not sure I agree with that. You tell me, you've seen the tape, did Mr. Gray from Aledo use the throat slash in a way that was USC? I think he did, but it was pretty quick. He also wasn't facing any of the opposing players that I could see. Should it have been penalized? Well, I think so, but if you use your measuring stick, maybe not.
I think it's something that we simply tell players Don't do these things: alter stride, draw attention, ... And if they do one of those things, it's a foul.
-
I'm not sure I agree with that. You tell me, you've seen the tape, did Mr. Gray from Aledo use the throat slash in a way that was USC? I think he did, but it was pretty quick. He also wasn't facing any of the opposing players that I could see. Should it have been penalized? Well, I think so, but if you use your measuring stick, maybe not.
I think it's something that we simply tell players Don't do these things: alter stride, draw attention, ... And if they do one of those things, it's a foul.
Yeah, but he did it to a TV camera, which I would agree falls in the category of "drawing attention to oneself." Also, since the game was televised, there are surely Sville fans watching and that gesture could be insulting to them as fans.
-
I can imagine an injured player who has returned to the game to "test" out his ability to play and then give the throat slash signal to his coach to indicate that he can't play. I don't think I would flag him for that.