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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: RMR on October 12, 2011, 09:23:31 PM
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I know that if the offense subs late and as a result the defense is allowed to sub and the offense is unable to get the snap off before the play clock expires then they are penalized for delay of game.
What if that situation occurs late in the game, with the game clock running. Is it allowed to expire and too bad for the offense or is there some sort of provision that deals with this?
Rule cite please.
Thanks in advance.
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3-5-2-e is the rule dealing with these types of substitutions. All other clock status rules apply so in answer to the question I would say yes, too bad for the offense. If they are running a hurry up, no huddle, or sub late as you say then they have created a situation where the defense must be given a chance to match up. This would probably hold the snap up by a few seconds in order for the crew to determine if B is subbing to match up and if B is it would hold the snap up for the additional time it takes to complete the substitution. Not only could the play clock potentially run out but the game clock could also. One of the reasons we don't typically see team A subbing in these situations with the clock running.
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The classic case is rushing in the field goal unit as time is running down. Say they get their FG team set but B decides to sub- do we hold the umpire on the ball to allow them to match up as time potentially runs out?
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The classic case is rushing in the field goal unit as time is running down. Say they get their FG team set but B decides to sub- do we hold the umpire on the ball to allow them to match up as time potentially runs out?
IMO - no, when it is obvious that they are bringing on the FG / Punt unit then it is no surprise to team B, and team B should not be entitled to extra time. It is when the substitute comes in late, or rushes on the field for a quick snap that B is entitled to extra time. If my grandma knows that A is bringing on the FG unit, than B should know.
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We had A rush the entire offense off the field on 4th and 2 with ten seconds on the play clock. Our U stepped over the ball to allow B to respond with the punt return team, he left with two second left on the clock after B had responded. A was upset that they ended up with a delay. It seems like a long period of time, but it felt correct timewise on the field.
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IMO - no, when it is obvious that they are bringing on the FG / Punt unit then it is no surprise to team B, and team B should not be entitled to extra time. It is when the substitute comes in late, or rushes on the field for a quick snap that B is entitled to extra time. If my grandma knows that A is bringing on the FG unit, than B should know.
gotta disagree with GF - the rule is expressly designed to allow B to bring in its punt/FG package regardless if it's obvious or not. Anytime, A subs without a huddle, the umpire should be over the ball, the R looks to the defensive side of the field and permits them to start their match up process within 3 seconds, and there is also a little delay to allow B to at least nearly get in positon.
Remember, B has special FG blockers and they are entitled to get into the game.
Surprise is not the issue, having time to sub is the issue.
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gotta disagree with GF - the rule is expressly designed to allow B to bring in its punt/FG package regardless if it's obvious or not. Anytime, A subs without a huddle, the umpire should be over the ball, the R looks to the defensive side of the field and permits them to start their match up process within 3 seconds, and there is also a little delay to allow B to at least nearly get in positon.
Remember, B has special FG blockers they are entitled to get into the game.
Surprise is not the issue, having time to sub is the issue.
Right on.
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I just received this from Supervisor.
Last Second Play
There have been some high profile plays that have occurred near the end of a half or game that warrant a review of how we will deal with a team attempting to get off a field goal or scrimmage play. These can occur with the game clock running or stopped, and with a team out of time outs or with time outs remaining. While not covering every possible scenario, let’s look at some of the more common situations that can occur:
If the game clock at the end of the previous play is at 40 seconds or less and is running, and there is no delay on the part of Team A in running their field goal team out onto the field or in running their offense up to the line for another snap, the Umpire will spot the ball as quickly as possible and we will not interrupt the game clock if it is running nor will we delay in making the ball ready for play. Because time here is far more critical, the Umpire will spot the first ball he can get his hands on, which will usually be the ball the runner has as the previous play ends. If that ball comes loose near the sideline, the sideline officials or ball boys should be prepared to toss the Umpire a ball immediately so that there is no delay in getting the ball spotted.
It is obvious in this situation that there is no attempt by the offensive team to disguise or delay in substituting, so the defensive team needs to be prepared to substitute accordingly. The issue sometimes involves the defense creating a delay that might cause the Referee to hold up making the ball ready for play and the game clock subsequently running out. Inside of 40 seconds we will not do this. Since there is no delay on the part of the offense to substitute, and the play clock is not an issue since we are under 40 seconds, if the defense is caught with more that 11 players, the penalty will be on the defense and the offense will have its normal options depending upon whether or not the field goal is successful. Likewise, the offense if caught with more than 11 players on the field when the ball is snapped will also be subject to a penalty. Both teams need to be immediately ready to play in this situation. As a reminder, more than 11 players on the field is reviewable and we would expect an immediate stoppage by the Replay Official if there is any question regarding the number of players on the field by either team.
If the game clock is stopped because the runner was inbounds on the previous play and we have stopped the game clock to award a first down, then we will delay until officials are clearly in position to officiate the next play. Once that occurs, the Umpire will back away as the referee blows his whistle. The offense needs to move quickly and be in Referee’s whistle will indicate to the offense that the ball can be snapped. After blowing his whistle, the Referee will then wind the game clock. The offense here must be prepared to immediately play and the defense must be prepared to immediately defend.
If at the end of either half the game clock expires (goes to 0:00) and at the end of the play the clock should have been stopped by rule (runner out of bounds, incomplete pass, runner down in advance of the line to gain), the Replay Official can restore time only if (a) he has indisputable video evidence of time remaining, (b) the team in possession would next put the ball in play, and (c) in the 4th quarter the score is tied or the team that would next put the ball in play is behind by eight or fewer points. It is very important for officials on the field to be aware of the critical nature of time at the end of the half and for officials to be prepared to restore time on their own if they have visual knowledge that time remains. Do not wait or depend on replay to correct an obvious error. Also, if a team has a time out remaining, be alert for the signal by the Head Coach and then immediately signal and look to the clock to confirm the time. Replay can only put time back on a called timeout by the Head Coach if a visual signal from an official can be seen on video and the time remaining can be confirmed.
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Jason - very interesting, not our understanding of what our supervisor wants. Would you mind sending me a private message/email indicating your conference. I need to follow up on this.
I don't recall anything official from RR on this specific subject.
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In my opinion, the rules committee felt it was important for B to be able substitute when A substitutes. It doesnt make sense to me that it would be different with less than 40 seconds than with more than 40 seconds.