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Football Officiating => General Discussion => Topic started by: NorCalMike on October 14, 2011, 12:18:28 AM

Title: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: NorCalMike on October 14, 2011, 12:18:28 AM
Sometimes when I am the WH, I will ask the kids a question at the coin toss. For example today, used an Australian coin that has is not smooth but has twelve flat edges. So I asked the captains, Do you know what a twelve sided polygon is called? One kid came close telling me it was a decagon. The correct answer is dodecagon.

Sometimes I flip with an old Susan B Anthony dollar and I asked if any one knew what she was famous for? One of the Captains got that one right.

One of the other WH I worked used to use a half dollar to flip with. He always asked the captains, Whose on the Kennedy half dollar? Most the time he got blank stares.

Any one else do this? Do you think its Okay to do this or do you think we should keep it strictly business?
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: mbyron on October 14, 2011, 05:33:44 AM
IMO, if the question feels educational, then it can have a place on a school field. If the point is or might seem to be to humiliate players, then I'd say save it for your partners.

Like humor on the field, some folks can pull it off, and others just sound sarcastic, petty, and snide.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: justbill on October 14, 2011, 08:01:53 AM
I don't ask questions but do something else.  I use a different dollar coin each time with a different President's face on it and drop a little known fact about that President before showing tails side (Statue of Liberty).  For example, James Garfield is the only person who was in the House of Representatives, a Senator and President all at the same time.  Things like that.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: WVABJ1807 on October 14, 2011, 08:22:37 AM
There are more important things going on on a Friday night than to ask these types of questions on a football field.  In a JV game maybe, but no way my crew would ever do anything like this.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: clearwall on October 14, 2011, 10:09:16 AM
I was L for a MS game one time and asked the K how many players he had on the field. He didnt know, so I asked how many he was SUPPOSED to have. He just gave me a blank stare....

Maybe shouldn't tempt the history test.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: TexDoc on October 14, 2011, 10:26:09 AM
For varsity games, I like the toss to be short and sweet.  I get right to it and get it over with as quickly as possible.

I think for lower level games doing what some of you have suggested is fine.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: stevegarbs on October 14, 2011, 02:04:04 PM
I only do this for youth games- since I use an Eisenhower silver dollar, I would tell the visiting captain, "If you can tell me which president is on this coin you win the toss."  They never got it right, and now with so many dollar coins out there I don't bother asking.

I worked with a guy who did crack me up when he asked the captain who won the toss, "You have two choices- you can wash my car or cut my grass."  LOL

As others said, I reserve these jokes for the kids games, and only when they are accompanied by their coaches.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: Welpe on October 15, 2011, 03:46:02 PM

Sometimes I flip with an old Susan B Anthony dollar and I asked if any one knew what she was famous for? One of the Captains got that one right.

I know! She fought to end women's suffrage, right? Or maybe it was suffering?  Or maybe it was to fight FOR women's suffering?  Yeah, that's it.  ^TD
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: TexDoc on October 15, 2011, 06:03:48 PM
First for me in 24 years.  I always show the coin, tell them the heads and the tells and show them.  Then I tell the visiting speaker that I will flip the coin and let it hit the ground but I want to know before I toss it if he wants heads for tails.  Friday night the captain choses, then I flip the coin and in this high thick grass, the coin lands perfectly vertical.  Picked up and said one more time and let the visiting captain have an option to change his selection before I tossed it again.  Then we proceeded to have a 62 to 21 BUTT whipping.  The coin toss was indicative of the kind of night we were about to have.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: JasonTX on October 15, 2011, 09:53:57 PM
First for me in 24 years.  I always show the coin, tell them the heads and the tells and show them.  Then I tell the visiting speaker that I will flip the coin and let it hit the ground but I want to know before I toss it if he wants heads for tails.  Friday night the captain choses, then I flip the coin and in this high thick grass, the coin lands perfectly vertical.  Picked up and said one more time and let the visiting captain have an option to change his selection before I tossed it again.  Then we proceeded to have a 62 to 21 BUTT whipping.  The coin toss was indicative of the kind of night we were about to have.

I've seen some of those straight up coins.  I also seen the coin roll away.  Referee had to back pedal 5 yards to get out of the way.  This is why I just catch it.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: Roscoe on October 15, 2011, 09:55:07 PM
The coin toss to me is such a mystery. As a wing / deep wing official, I 've never been apart of one. I don't even know what they say other than call it in the air.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: NorCalMike on October 16, 2011, 12:20:31 AM
I probably should be more professional maybe but I have always been a smart BUTT. One of my weakness.

I do like asking about washing the car or mowing the lawn. Two things that always need doing at my house.

Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: Jackhammer on October 16, 2011, 08:14:36 PM
"gentlemen, here's the Eisenhower coin.  He's the only US president that's done the same thing you're going to do tonight....play Kansas high school football."
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: Grant - AR on October 16, 2011, 09:17:25 PM
In the pregame meeting with the coaches, I used to ask them what their option would be if they won the toss.  On the occasions where one said defer and the other said receive, there was no reason to have the coin toss.  In a couple of junior high games, I never actually tossed the coin.  I would just tell the captains that the coaches had already made the decision.  They both got what they wanted.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: HLinNC on October 17, 2011, 06:23:53 AM
While its fine to be cordial and lessen the tension, the kids are getting ready to go to "work" for something they've trained for all the preceding week.  The coin toss isn't supposed to be your audition for amateur night at the Comedy Shack.  Get it done and get it over with.

We've got one guy, who I've fortunately only worked with a couple of times, who thinks the coin toss for MS games is the Bobo the Clown Cartoon Club.  Its humiliating to stand there while he goes through his corny act.  His varsity career is behind him now, not surprisingly.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: QAfta on October 17, 2011, 03:13:33 PM
On non-varsity nights, after they captains introduce themselves, I will ask one of them who's that and point to one of the other teams captains.  Usually, get "I don't know".  One time even got a "I don't care"  hEaDbAnG, made that team re-introduce themselves.  He got it right after that.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: GAHSUMPIRE on October 17, 2011, 07:49:44 PM
No offense, but the kids are not there for a history lesson or team trivia. flip the coin and get on with the game which is why everyone is there in the first place.

Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: GAHSUMPIRE on October 17, 2011, 08:20:41 PM
One other thing- why would this type of schtick be ok in sub-varsity but not on varsity? You may be earning less for the game, but it is just as important to the participants of that game as it is to those on Friday nights.

We are there to manage a football game- who is on each side of the coin, and what they did to deserve being there is immaterial, other than which side is heads and which side is tails.

It is odd that there would be those who would complain that players can't remember what their coach wants them to choose but at the same time distract them from this choice by bringing up useless and irrelevant information when they are trying to concentrate on it.

Again, flip the coin and move on.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: TexDoc on October 17, 2011, 08:56:09 PM
One other thing- why would this type of schtick be ok in sub-varsity but not on varsity? You may be earing less for the game, but it is just as important to the participants of that game as it is to those on Friday nights.

We are there to manage a football game- who is on each side of the coin, and what they did to deserve being there is immaterial, other than which side is heads and which side is tails.

It is odd that there would be those who would complain that players can't remember what their coach wants them to choose but at the same time distract them from this choice by bringing up useless and irrelevant infomration when they are trying to concentrate on it.

Again, flip the coin and move on.

Point taken.  Not sure if you're in Texas or not, but jobs and careers depend on varsity games.  I've never heard of anyone being fired for losing a junior high game.  Yes, by virtue of their importance, and human nature, varsity games are taken more seriously.  That's just the way it is.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: GAHSUMPIRE on October 17, 2011, 09:08:04 PM
Point taken.  Not sure if you're in Texas or not, but jobs and careers depend on varsity games.  I've never heard of anyone being fired for losing a junior high game.  Yes, by virtue of their importance, and human nature, varsity games are taken more seriously.  That's just the way it is.

No I'm not in Texas. I am in Georgia. Whether or not jobs are on the line to me, is immaterial. I understand your point, but my opinion remains that it is not appropriate- regardless of the level of the game.  Do you think the sub-varsity PLAYERS- who are the ones listening to the referee's lecture care less about their game than the game on Friday? I don't. What is gained by doing so, other than making the referee feel that he could win on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader?" In most cases the captains are barely listening to what you say anyway, why prolong the agony? They want to get on with the game- get on with it.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: TexDoc on October 17, 2011, 09:58:08 PM
No I'm not in Texas. I am in Georgia. Whether or not jobs are on the line to me, is immaterial. I understand your point, but my opinion remains that it is not appropriate- regardless of the level of the game.  Do you think the sub-varsity PLAYERS- who are the ones listening to the referee's lecture care less about their game than the game on Friday? I don't. What is gained by doing so, other than making the referee feel that he could win on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader?" In most cases the captains are barely listening to what you say anyway, why prolong the agony? They want to get on with the game- get on with it.

I understand your point.  Don't lose sight of the fact that football at the high school level is an extension of the classroom.  Being such, what's wrong with showing a coin to the captains and asking them if they know who the person is on the coin, or some other quick bit of "education?"  At the varsity level, I suggest you move along quickly.  Below varsity, sure, why not.  Just don't prolong it and don't be a comedian.  You might actually teach something to a young man he will remember in years to come.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: NorCalMike on October 18, 2011, 01:10:15 AM
"gentlemen, here's the Eisenhower coin.  He's the only US president that's done the same thing you're going to do tonight....play Kansas high school football."
I like that one. If they ever put Gerald Ford on a coin  LOL then you could do that in Michigan.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: NorCalMike on October 18, 2011, 01:14:41 AM
I am actually a little surprised at the strong feelings this topic generated. I understand both sides. I will have to rethink this.

Anyway since I only do WH in SV games, I always ask the coach what he wants if his team wins the toss and try to assist the captain in making the proper selection. I would not do this at the varsity level though.

Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: bama_stripes on October 18, 2011, 02:21:11 PM
Anyway since I only do WH in SV games, I always ask the coach what he wants if his team wins the toss and try to assist the captain in making the proper selection. I would not do this at the varsity level though.

We do.  Every game.  Pee-wee through varsity.  Plus, we make sure the captains know what the coach wants them to do before we go out for the toss.  There's no way I'm making a team kick off twice, unless that's what their coach wants.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: TxSkyBolt on October 18, 2011, 02:43:23 PM
Quote from: GAHSUMPIRE What is gained by doing so, other than making the referee feel that he could win on "Are you smarter than a 5th grader?"
[/quote

I'm afraid Doc will never win that contest  LOL
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: clearwall on October 18, 2011, 02:47:41 PM
What about when you've already flipped the coin with the coaches before the game and the "coin flip" is just for show? Im still on the side of the fence where you just flip it and get out of there. Real football is 100x more fun than watching two officials and a few captains sitting around discussing the weather patterns on Venus.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: Welpe on October 18, 2011, 03:55:26 PM
Quote from: SATCFI
I'm afraid Doc will never win that contest  LOL

But can Doc use the quote feature correctly?  pi1eOn
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: Jackhammer on October 18, 2011, 06:45:10 PM
I like that one. If they ever put Gerald Ford on a coin  LOL then you could do that in Michigan.

You should have that opportunity in the next few years.  S'posed to have all the presidential dollars out by 2016 I think
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: TexDoc on October 19, 2011, 12:06:28 PM
But can Doc use the quote feature correctly?  pi1eOn

Good point!   LOL
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: ECILLJ on October 20, 2011, 02:52:00 PM
I agree with those who believe in taking care of business at the coin flip and not turning it into a history lesson.
Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: BNE-Ref on October 23, 2011, 10:57:14 PM
Not quite the coin toss (2nd half option), but almost had to play 20 questions last weekend with the captain who had the 2nd half option.

The 2nd quarter had finished on high emotion with the following sequence:

Came out for the option after half time, and the captain with the option suddenly realised that the coach had neglected to tell him what option to take.  Conversation went something like

Me: What would you like to do?
C: I don't know.
Me: Excuse me?
C: The coach forgot to tell me.
OC (Opposing captain): You want to kick don't you.
C: Should we?
Me: What do you normally do when you have the option?
C (looking frantically towards sideline): Not sure
OC (presumably having pity): You should receive the ball.
Me: That's probably a good idea
C: Ok
OC: And we'll defend that goal.

I couldn't resist the chance to diffuse some of the emotion and tension with some humour; my announcement was: "The <team name redacted> think they'd like to receive the ball." - to much laughter from the sideline...

Title: Re: Do you ever ask questions at the coin toss?
Post by: DSMitchell on October 25, 2011, 06:46:13 AM
Sometimes when I am the WH, I will ask the kids a question at the coin toss. For example today, used an Australian coin that has is not smooth but has twelve flat edges.

I had to chuckle at this as I am an Aussie WH who flips an American Silver Dollar.  The Aussie coin you speak of is a 50 cent piece.  They put the straight edges on it in the late 1960s as it always got confused with the similar sized 20 cent piece.

I will exchange pleasantries with all captains as we are a small 9 team league and I know most senior players.  I will always have the visiting speaker confirm his head/tail call before flipping and confirm that with him.  If we are playing on grass I will catch the coin to avoid any disputes if the coin ends up at an odd angle and advise I will flip it again if I drop it.