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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: Diablo on October 20, 2011, 01:07:08 PM

Title: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: Diablo on October 20, 2011, 01:07:08 PM: Fourth & 1 @ B-40. A11 muffs the snap and the ball rolls to the B-41. Running back A22 picks up he loose ball and runs to the B-35 where he is tackled by B55. While the ball was loose A66 held B77 at the B-39.
What next?
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: mbyron on October 20, 2011, 01:54:12 PM: 4th and 11 from midfield.
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: HoustonUmp on October 20, 2011, 02:34:18 PM: Because the snap was muffed and therefore this is still a backwards pass, 4th down fumble rules do not apply. Therefore B will take the 10 yard penalty from the previous spot and make it 4th and 11 as mbyron said.
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: Diablo on October 20, 2011, 02:49:50 PM: Quote from: mbyron on October 20, 2011, 01:54:12 PM
4th and 11 from midfield.

That's what I get.
Does anyone see 4/10 @ B-49?
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: ret66482 on October 20, 2011, 03:15:52 PM: Muff (loose ball) was at the 40. Penalty enforcement for loose balls is the previous spot.
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: Andrew McCarthy on October 20, 2011, 03:33:53 PM: Quote from: ret66482 on October 20, 2011, 03:15:52 PM
Muff (loose ball) was at the 40. Penalty enforcement for loose balls is the previous spot.
Is there a rules reference for that?
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: TxSkyBolt on October 20, 2011, 03:46:01 PM: Quote from: Andrew McCarthy on October 20, 2011, 03:33:53 PM
Is there a rules reference for that?

There isn't one but for this case it would be 10-2-2-b.
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: Andrew McCarthy on October 20, 2011, 04:21:22 PM: Quote from: SATCFI on October 20, 2011, 03:46:01 PM
There isn't one but for this case it would be 10-2-2-b.
Normally, yes, but this hold was 1 yard beyond the line.
Title: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: TxSkyBolt on October 20, 2011, 04:43:58 PM: Oops visualized the wrong direction

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.491928,-98.464140
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: Kalle on October 21, 2011, 01:50:23 AM: End of the related run is B-40 (as the snap is a backward pass, it must - in theory - be the spot where the run ends). The spot of the foul is in advance of the end of the related run. Enforce from the end of the run. 4th and 11 from B-50.
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: Diablo on October 21, 2011, 05:58:02 AM: Quote from: Kalle on October 21, 2011, 01:50:23 AM
End of the related run is B-40 (as the snap is a backward pass, it must - in theory - be the spot where the run ends). The spot of the foul is in advance of the end of the related run. Enforce from the end of the run. 4th and 11 from B-50.

Agree.
Based upon 2-30-4-a, I like to think that a snap is a running play. The "run" associated with that running play ends when the snapper no longer possesses the ball. Penalty enforcement for any fouls occurring during the loose ball segment of that running play is governed by the 3 & 1 principle with the previous spot ("end of run") as the basic spot.
Title: Re: Penalty Enforcement
Post by: Welpe on October 21, 2011, 07:57:02 AM: Agree, it had to be enforced from the previous spot. Enforcing from the spot of the foul would be an advantage to the fouling team.