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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on October 28, 2011, 05:15:37 AM
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Play 1 Tackler releases collar but ball carrier still comes down
http://youtu.be/v92X0PG40bI (http://youtu.be/v92X0PG40bI)
Play 2 Ball carrier falls forward
http://youtu.be/IVVrY_TMPdk (http://youtu.be/IVVrY_TMPdk)
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To have an HC call the defender has to have solid control of the runner by the collar, and a then a quick action by the defender to pull the runner down (primarily backwards). Neither of these two plays meets the technical requirement that the rules require.
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Play #1 ^flag
Play #2 Nothing
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To me, the first one is a no brainer. Horse Collar all the way.
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Play #1 ^flag
Play #2 Nothing
I agree.
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Play #1 ^flag
Play #2 Nothing
^flag
Ditto! z^
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Using the Canadian interp (force applied, inside shoulder pads or inside jersey collar, that changes the path of the tackled player) I have flag on the first play, nothing on the second.
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I got no flag on either play. I don't think he got his hand inside the collar on the first one. I think he was grabbing jersey and that's why his hand slipped off. If he was inside the collar, I think he hangs on.
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On the first play, I do like the wind of the clock on this play. Very tight but believe his knee hits in bounds first.
We don't have to rehash the discussion again but c'mon man. This is a horse collar tackle.
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I wouldn't flag either. Horsecaller is grabbing the inside of the pad and pulling DOWN.
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NCAA rules do not require the pad be grabbed for it to be a horse collar
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#1 No immediate take down/tackle of the ball carrier.
Am I wrong, or doesn't their have to be an immediate take down/tackle for HC to apply?
#2 No flag.
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#1 No immediate take down/tackle of the ball carrier.
Am I wrong, or doesn't their have to be an immediate take down/tackle for HC to apply?
I disagree. As soon as the defender grabs the runner's collar, he starts to pull him down.
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Intent of the rule...preventing injury by making it a major penalty to bring a runner down from behind and creating stress on the runner's legs.
Play #1 = Duh!
Play #2 = No flag
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Play 1
NFHS - Arguable but no flag ( runner fell forward not backwards, you could argue its to the side but that would be the only way)
NCAA- Absolutely not ( was not immediate + logic from above)
Play 2
No on both NFHS and NCAA ( See above logic)
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Play 1
NFHS - Arguable but no flag ( runner fell forward not backwards, you could argue its to the side but that would be the only way)
NCAA- Absolutely not ( was not immediate + logic from above)
While I don't think this was a forward pull, it doesn't matter. Under NFHS, the direction no longer matters.
9-4-3k: Grab the inside back or side collar of the shoulder pads or jersey of the runner
and subsequently pull that opponent to the ground
If you can grab the back or side of the collar and pull him any direction, it's a foul.
Under NCAA, that's close enough to immediate, there is a grab, a jerk, a quick release and a fall all within in a second or so of each other.
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you are right the rule book does not explicitly say the direction he must go however, look at the terminology in the rule. It says a player cannot "pull" from the inside back or side of an opponent to the ground. If his hand is inside of the back of the shoulder pads and he PULLS the runner, the runner would consequently have to fall backwards. He could not fall forward as a result of a pull from the back.
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you are right the rule book does not explicitly say the direction he must go however, look at the terminology in the rule. It says a player cannot "pull" from the inside back or side of an opponent to the ground. If his hand is inside of the back of the shoulder pads and he PULLS the runner, the runner would consequently have to fall backwards. He could not fall forward as a result of a pull from the back.
Of course you can, and it was shown on film during one of our clinics.
Defender coming up to runner from behind, grabs the collar, but has more momentum than the runner and passes him, without letting go. His pull of the collar pulls the runner face first to the ground.
Obviously, this is NOT what the rule was intended to prevent (quick buckling of the knees), but under the NFHS rule, it IS a horse collar tackle.