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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TXMike on November 08, 2011, 08:23:07 PM

Title: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 08, 2011, 08:23:07 PM
Thanks to TexDoc for once again doing the playoff assignment spreadsheet.  I doubt there is another state with as many playoff games as we have in Texas.  Doc does a great job pulling it all together for us zebras!!   tiphat:   tiphat:   tiphat:

If you notice any errors or holes you can fill, let us know!

http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls (http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls)
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: CenTexZebra on November 09, 2011, 04:51:31 AM
Not an error, but Cherokee vs Calvert is PV Chapter. I will be there!
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on November 09, 2011, 06:09:27 AM
Thanks.  That's the only chapter that I cannot get info for.  Let me know if there are other games Pecan Valley has.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: QAfta on November 09, 2011, 07:47:08 AM
Thanks for your work on this.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: ETXZebra on November 09, 2011, 08:27:40 AM
Thanks Doc for doing this each season.  tiphat:
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: psv on November 09, 2011, 10:22:49 AM
Thanks Doc.

Just FYI, I have Oakwood playing Aquilla, not Abbott.  Chapter is correct.

Thanks

Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on November 09, 2011, 11:55:18 AM
First round is always messy and needs a lot of cleanup.  Keep the corrections coming.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: JDM on November 09, 2011, 12:34:41 PM
Thanks, TexDoc! I look forward to this spreadsheet every playoff season, now. Everyone have a great week 1!
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: clearwall on November 09, 2011, 02:48:44 PM
I was kind of curious to see how we fared compared to some of the chapters that were more "agreeable" to Mr. Timmons' courting. It actually doesnt look too bad, all in all, fairly equitable.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: allen on November 09, 2011, 03:38:15 PM
Thanks for this another year, TexDoc. 

Wahoo, I see my game.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: mishatx on November 09, 2011, 03:42:40 PM
I was kind of curious to see how we fared compared to some of the chapters that were more "agreeable" to Mr. Timmons' courting. It actually doesnt look too bad, all in all, fairly equitable.

Well, the UIL will do what it takes to prevent the playoff schedule from being presented as evidence, I'd imagine.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: carrollyp1 on November 09, 2011, 07:27:36 PM
Columbus and Smithville at Merrill Green Stadium, Bryan , TX.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: blindref757 on November 09, 2011, 09:18:18 PM
Gotta brag on my little chapter in Tyler.  We have a total of 19 crews and 16 have a playoff game this weekend!  That's 84%!
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: yogi on November 09, 2011, 10:13:32 PM
North Forney / Will Point is a Tyler Chapter game.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NorCalMike on November 10, 2011, 03:54:27 PM
I wish California would do a program like this. CIF decides who plays in the state championship games. No true playoffs above section level.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 10, 2011, 03:57:26 PM
Just wondering, if you know or can find out, how many total public school playoff games are there in California each year?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NorCalMike on November 11, 2011, 02:24:46 AM
Mike,
Best I can tell there will be 775 playoff games in California.  It is not easy to figure out because there is not a single website with the all the play off info. Each of the 10 sections has their own playoffs and not all the sections have the playoff info on their websites.

After the section playoffs are complete the CIF will pick teams to play in the 5 state championship games. It is a terrible system.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Arbitrator on November 11, 2011, 07:16:32 AM
Mike,
Best I can tell there will be 775 playoff games in California.  It is not easy to figure out because there is not a single website with the all the play off info. Each of the 10 sections has their own playoffs and not all the sections have the playoff info on their websites.

After the section playoffs are complete the CIF will pick teams to play in the 5 state championship games. It is a terrible system.


 ^flag

This system sounds a whole lot like the BCS~ highly political!   z^
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 11, 2011, 08:20:01 AM
Mike,
Best I can tell there will be 775 playoff games in California.  It is not easy to figure out because there is not a single website with the all the play off info. Each of the 10 sections has their own playoffs and not all the sections have the playoff info on their websites.

After the section playoffs are complete the CIF will pick teams to play in the 5 state championship games. It is a terrible system.
Wow!  Only 584 in Texas (and almost everyone goes to the playoffs!! ;-)  )
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: HoustonUmp on November 11, 2011, 09:39:58 AM
Mike, does that 584 include private schools?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 11, 2011, 09:47:18 AM
Nope   That is why I asked him for the public school numbers. Trying to compare apples and apples
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on November 11, 2011, 09:51:46 AM
Since CA has around 37M people compared to 25M in Texas, this should not be that surprising.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 11, 2011, 10:01:41 AM
Hello!!!  It IS California.  Thought they would be more into soccer, volleeyball, frisbee golf, surfing, etc
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on November 11, 2011, 10:21:11 AM
Hello!!!  It IS California.  Thought they would be more into soccer, volleeyball, frisbee golf, surfing, etc

Medicinal Maryjane rolling?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NorCalMike on November 11, 2011, 04:12:32 PM
Football is getting bigger every year here. A lot of our local teams (Sacramento Area) are playing out of state now.They are doing quite well. I would love to see how we stack up against Texas teams but the rules thing would be a problem.

Soccer is big but not high school soccer. HS soccer is a joke out here. All the best soccer players play club.


Surfing is not a HS sanctioned sport in California although Hawaii sanctioned it this year so maybe soon.

Don't knock medicinal marijuana until you try it.  yEs:

Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NorCalMike on November 11, 2011, 04:13:54 PM
Just wondering, if you know or can find out, how many total public school playoff games are there in California each year?
Those numbers include private schools. There is no way to differentiate them as the all play in the same leagues. Probably about 10% of the schools are private.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NorCalMike on November 11, 2011, 04:15:40 PM
Since CA has around 37M people compared to 25M in Texas, this should not be that surprising.
[/quote
12% of the country's population but 25% of the country's welfare payouts. (Oops, sorry for the political commentary).
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 11, 2011, 04:22:28 PM
Football is getting bigger every year here. A lot of our local teams (Sacramento Area) are playing out of state now.They are doing quite well. I would love to see how we stack up against Texas teams but the rules thing would be a problem.

Texas schools play Oklahoma, LoserINiana and Florida schools now. They deal with the rule differences usually by using rules of home school. 
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NorCalMike on November 11, 2011, 06:31:20 PM
Texas schools play Oklahoma, LoserINiana and Florida schools now. They deal with the rule differences usually by using rules of home school.
Hopefully we will see some California/Texas games someday then.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Welpe on November 11, 2011, 09:25:09 PM


 ^flag

This system sounds a whole lot like the BCS~ highly political!   z^

Perhaps but the sectional champions are usually considered the actual ones.  The State Bowl gig is a newer thing.  And at least California has the good sense not to let the inmates run the asylum...I mean let coaches pick their own crews!
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Arbitrator on November 12, 2011, 08:37:22 AM
Perhaps but the sectional champions are usually considered the actual ones.  The State Bowl gig is a newer thing.  And at least California has the good sense not to let the inmates run the asylum...I mean let coaches pick their own crews!


 ^flag

Then just who does undertake that rigorous assignment out there? The Sectional Chiefs? The Educational Sector? A College-Type Commissioner? Who? No matter who ends up running the "asylum," albeit Commissioners, Coaches, or Whoever, I'm afraid that the politics is always going to be there! In my 33 years of football officiating experience, I'd much rather have a collective group of coaches running things than I would to be beheld to just one assignment commissar, if you will!   z^
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NorCalMike on November 12, 2011, 03:23:09 PM
The teams are selected by the Section Commissioners. Not really sure how the select the teams. Usually each game has one team from Southern California and one Team from NorCal.

As far as selected officials for playoffs, our association works with the assigner to set up the crews and there is definitely politics involved.

Officials for the state games are selected by CIF by an application process. Minimum requirements are 10 years as an official and worked a section championship game. The 25 slots are spread over the ten sections.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 15, 2011, 07:50:07 PM
Thanks to TexDoc for once again doing the playoff assignment spreadsheet.  I doubt there is another state with as many playoff games as we have in Texas.  Doc does a great job pulling it all together for us zebras!!   tiphat:   tiphat:   tiphat:

If you notice any errors or holes you can fill, let us know!

http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls (http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls)
Doc has updated the sheet for week 2.  Looks like 2 games are still available if someone wants to work them
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: clearwall on November 16, 2011, 08:22:36 AM
SA chapter...6 gms round 2 good gracious. Guess i should move to Hou or Lubbock.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 16, 2011, 08:27:20 AM
They are saving you for the more important later round games      :sTiR:
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on November 16, 2011, 09:10:39 AM
since I have been doing this, 2003, this is the lowest game total SA has had in the second round.  It has a lot to do with realignment, but for some reason we are not getting the valley games like we used to.  Kind of frustrating, but that's how the ball bounces.  Hopefully it picks up in round 3.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: clearwall on November 16, 2011, 09:13:32 AM
You're prob right, Mike. Mr. Timm-ah    (http://cf.sketchfu.com/u/medium/0/5293.jpg)    is saving my knees for that game in a few weeks in Jerry World.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NTXRef on November 16, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Dallas' assignment sheet doesn't reflect Lovelady-Alto in 1A-1.

How did SA lose Warren/Churchill to Dallas?  It's never good to lose games between your schools.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: psv on November 17, 2011, 10:44:38 AM
It happens although i do find it odd.

Aledo v Mansfield Summit went to Tyler for some reason.

Who knows  ???

Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on November 17, 2011, 10:55:58 AM
Dallas' assignment sheet doesn't reflect Lovelady-Alto in 1A-1.

How did SA lose Warren/Churchill to Dallas?  It's never good to lose games between your schools.

You are correct.  Alto went to SFA Chapter.

Not sure how SA lost that game but I suspect one coach may have been unhappy with a call or two.  Who knows.  Coaches can be quite paranoid.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: gigmax on November 18, 2011, 05:39:20 AM
I know if it was going to be Wagner vs Warren it was coming to Houston.  They had already called in.  Wagner lost though.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NTXRef on November 18, 2011, 12:17:43 PM
TexDoc,
You didn't happen to have the Hebron/Guyer game last week at Jerry's World last week.  There was some rumblings about a 4th down spot late in the game.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on November 18, 2011, 12:43:38 PM
TexDoc,
You didn't happen to have the Hebron/Guyer game last week at Jerry's World last week.  There was some rumblings about a 4th down spot late in the game.

No sir, I was in Groesbeck, Texas, home of the Goats, for a 2A game!  I heard a couple of things about that game but not sure about any of it.  Would like to see video.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NTXRef on November 18, 2011, 12:46:18 PM
I also heard things.  Just curious about the real story (or at least the officials' one).
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: ljref86 on November 23, 2011, 10:00:20 AM
I had the game. I would be happy to entertain the masses.
What have we heard ?
As far as the spot, knee down position of the ball at that time. The runner reached out as he was going down.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NTXRef on November 23, 2011, 11:07:27 AM
That is probably the play.  The comment came from a civilian, that's why I asked.  They probably just saw the ball reach out after the knee.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NTXRef on November 23, 2011, 11:16:43 AM
No love for Dallas this week (#3).  Got just 2 games and none at 3A and above including the one game that was Dallas/Dallas (Sherman/Rockwall-Heath).
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 23, 2011, 11:39:25 AM
Maybe if you guys would start wearing placards, you'd get some games.    ;D
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: psv on November 23, 2011, 12:10:22 PM
Has the spreadsheet been updated yet? :)
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 23, 2011, 12:15:27 PM
I had the game. I would be happy to entertain the masses.
What have we heard ?
As far as the spot, knee down position of the ball at that time. The runner reached out as he was going down.

just saw the box score...19 penalties for 130 yards by 1 team ??  ??    Sounds like a ton of 5 yarders.  What were they doing?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: ljref86 on November 23, 2011, 01:06:54 PM
14 presnap penalties, defense making contact/offense false starts, 6 soph starters
they lined up clean, but were aggressive early. teams settled down. The game went 2 OT, it was the teams that decided it.
If you hear anything we welcome it, always looking for ways to get better.

Happy Thanksgiving to All !!!
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 23, 2011, 01:22:06 PM
Aside from stuff on the spot, just the general nonspecific fan stuff, i.e. worse crew I have ever seen, yadi yadi yadi....Nobody has offered up any video "proof" of anything so may just be typical fanboy stuff. 
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: ljref86 on November 23, 2011, 01:36:48 PM
Good to hear, Thought  I might have to crawl up on the big screen at Jerry's place and see if could land on my feet.
Congrats on your playoff assignment-Good Luck !!
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Hank on November 23, 2011, 03:45:10 PM
Has the spreadsheet been updated yet? :)

If so, I've not seen it.  But Houston got 21, including 2 crews that landed doubles.

The crew that did the Allen/Trinity game is now up to 7 in 3 rounds.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: fencewire on November 23, 2011, 06:39:46 PM
I think that would be 9 in 3 rounds....
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on November 23, 2011, 07:38:01 PM
Just sent the brackets to Mike for week 3.  He will let us know when he gets them posted.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: NTXRef on November 23, 2011, 09:36:39 PM
Maybe if you guys would start wearing placards, you'd get some games.    ;D
Good one.  Maybe you have one there.  I'll spread the word to all crews to get their placards out. ;D
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Hank on November 24, 2011, 12:22:14 AM
I think that would be 9 in 3 rounds....

Sorry, somehow I counted 1 week twice.  Should have been 7 games in 3 rounds.

2 in week 1
3 in week 2
2 in week 3

Don't think they even wear placards.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 24, 2011, 06:32:41 AM
Thanks to Doc!!  The updated bracket is below:

http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls (http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls)
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: psv on November 24, 2011, 10:33:21 AM
Sorry, somehow I counted 1 week twice.  Should have been 7 games in 3 rounds.

2 in week 1
3 in week 2
2 in week 3

Don't think they even wear placards.

Dont worry, it will probably be 9 by playoff's end :)

It's Houston's world.  The rest of us are just squirrells trying to get a nut  ;D
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Hank on November 24, 2011, 10:51:32 AM
Dont worry, it will probably be 9 by playoff's end :)

It's Houston's world.  The rest of us are just squirrells trying to get a nut  ;D

It's not even Houston's world.

It's just a SELECT portion of the Houston chapter's world.

This playoff season is DOMINATED by a very small group of crews.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on November 30, 2011, 05:14:16 AM
Doc has updated the bracket.     tiphat:     See  below:

http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls (http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls)
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Getting Fat on November 30, 2011, 10:18:38 AM
Thanks Doc, anybody else notice Lake Travis Cedar Park going outside Austin for the second year in a row...?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Birddog on November 30, 2011, 11:20:34 AM
Thanks Doc, anybody else notice Lake Travis Cedar Park going outside Austin for the second year in a row...?

Any in-site on how the chapter is picked?  Does one school get to pick the place and the other the officials, just curious.  I would think if they cant agree on the Chapter it goes to the UIL.  Shame the Austin guys don't have this game.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on November 30, 2011, 11:25:51 AM
Any in-site on how the chapter is picked?  Does one school get to pick the place and the other the officials, just curious.  I would think if they cant agree on the Chapter it goes to the UIL.  Shame the Austin guys don't have this game.

It is a shame.  What you want to do is tell them to go find a chapter for all of their regular season games, sub varsity and all, next year.  We all know the UIL would never support that.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: clearwall on November 30, 2011, 11:27:27 AM
Just noticed something that made me chuckle...we have that other thread about the La Marque/Ozen brawl and how today both sides are blaming officials. Who did they request for this weeks'  game? Same chapter....
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: mishatx on November 30, 2011, 12:02:08 PM
It is a shame.  What you want to do is tell them to go find a chapter for all of their regular season games, sub varsity and all, next year.  We all know the UIL would never support that.

I suggested that to a member of our board. Between the two of them, The have like 8 JV teams, 22 Freshman teams, 48 8th grade teams and 196 7th grade teams, so I figured the mileage from SA or Killeen might bankrupt one of them.

Don't think the board's gonna go for it, though.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Hank on November 30, 2011, 12:11:50 PM
Just noticed something that made me chuckle...we have that other thread about the La Marque/Ozen brawl and how today both sides are blaming officials. Who did they request for this weeks'  game? Same chapter....

The game you're referencing is La Marque v Manvel.  Those are both schools that use the Houston chapter.

It seems natural that they would use the Houston chapter.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: clearwall on November 30, 2011, 02:48:39 PM
Still funny. They're b***ing and moaning about how horrible the officials were in that game but when they have a chance to get other officials, they dont do it. Maybe those releases they issued were just for the public face because they knew they screwed up? I'd actually be OK with that. I dont mind the fans hating and blaming me for all their woes.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: psv on November 30, 2011, 05:01:20 PM
From what I have seen, the team doing all the bellyaching is Ozen, and they lost.  I havent seen anything from LaMarque.  I might have missed something though.

 sNiCkErS
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Joe Stack on December 01, 2011, 04:26:48 PM
Quote
8 JV teams, 22 Freshman teams, 48 8th grade teams and 196 7th grade teams

If I were on the board, there's no way I would tell the schools anything but that we'll be back for next year. You don't want to give up this many games for your younger officials and crews that want to work early season subvarsity games together. Not to mention you are creating hard feelings where there weren't any and torching bridges is not a good idea for anyone.

Don't screw your chapter with idiotic, emotional decisions based on who a coach picked for a playoff game. There are legit reasons to tell a school to go jump in the lake. Not getting picked for a game, even if your chapter works both schools, is nowhere near one of them.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 02, 2011, 08:37:13 AM
If I were on the board, there's no way I would tell the schools anything but that we'll be back for next year. You don't want to give up this many games for your younger officials and crews that want to work early season subvarsity games together. Not to mention you are creating hard feelings where there weren't any and torching bridges is not a good idea for anyone.

Don't screw your chapter with idiotic, emotional decisions based on who a coach picked for a playoff game. There are legit reasons to tell a school to go jump in the lake. Not getting picked for a game, even if your chapter works both schools, is nowhere near one of them.

I can agree with that to a point, but the coach needs a stern phone call or a visit from a chapter leader reminding him that the chapter supports his program all year and that going outside of the chapter when playing a school that uses the same chapter is really inappropriate and leaves the impression that the coach does not reciprocate the support the chapter has provided.  No threats, no innuendos, just facts.  Then remind him that his program is at the bottom of the list for coverage and that all other schools will be covered before those in his program.  If the chapter runs short officials, his will be the first school to be without.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Joe Stack on December 02, 2011, 12:55:05 PM
Quote
the coach needs a stern phone call or a visit from a chapter leader reminding him that the chapter supports his program all year and that going outside of the chapter when playing a school that uses the same chapter is really inappropriate and leaves the impression that the coach does not reciprocate the support the chapter has provided.

I've got really bad news for you: he isn't going to care. The chapter doesn't "support" the program; the chapter provides a service for a fee.

Instead of organizing a meeting with the coach, why don't you organize a clinic or training session to make your officials better? A really good chapter is going to make it hard for the coach not to use in the future.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 02, 2011, 01:12:31 PM
I've got really bad news for you: he isn't going to care. The chapter doesn't "support" the program; the chapter provides a service for a fee.

Instead of organizing a meeting with the coach, why don't you organize a clinic or training session to make your officials better? A really good chapter is going to make it hard for the coach not to use in the future.

A bit rude of you to infer that the chapter just doesn't have good officials.  How do you know?  Have you worked in the Austin Chapter?  I'm not there now, but I can tell you they have officials just as good as anyone in the state!  I spent 7 years on that chapter.  The problem is not with the officials, the problem is with the coach.  And we do offer a service that supports their football program.  I would like to see them play the games with coaches officiating.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Arbitrator on December 02, 2011, 01:33:31 PM
I would like to see them play the games with coaches officiating.

 ^flag

Yeah, Doc! I'd have to say that I'd quickly part with American greenbacks just to witness that for myself!   z^
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Etref on December 02, 2011, 02:36:41 PM
Coach A wanted to use Joe's crew and Coach B wanted to use Jims crew. Rather than accept what the other wanted the go "pot luck" with someone neither has ever used.


Go figure................... hEaDbAnG
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: jimbowie on December 02, 2011, 05:21:48 PM
Ah, the magic of the Texas playoffs!  Tonight, a crew from Houston has journeyed to Mansfield, just south of Dallas-Fort Worth, for a 7:30 ball game.  After officiating a high competitive upper level game and (hopefully, for the benefit of their crewmates) a quick shower, they'll jump into cars to travel 250 miles south to Houston.  Approximately 9 hours after arriving back in Houston, this group of middle-aged+ guys will be in the dressing room at Galena Park ISD Stadium to work a 2 pm playoff game, their second contest in less than 18 hours.

I guess I'd have to have brain surgery to understand the thought process of the coaches involved OR the Houston Chapter "leadership" on this matter.  But a more pointed question is directed to those five individuals who apparently have the excellent judgment skills to officiate these two games back-to-back -- Did you ever consider turning back one of the assignments and encouraging all involved to select another capable crew?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 02, 2011, 06:35:24 PM
That's nothing.  I know of a crew that worked a game at Noon last Saturday, drove 90 miles and worked a second game that day starting at 7:30.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: jimbowie on December 02, 2011, 09:15:59 PM
Oink!! Such behavior can't be justified by any standard.  Even IF they're the "best crew in the state" (and this is highly subjective), they can't be at anywhere near peak performance in a second game in 24 hours.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Joe Stack on December 02, 2011, 09:51:38 PM
Quote
A bit rude of you to infer that the chapter just doesn't have good officials.

Nothing rude at all, since I didn't say or come close to inferring that. On the other hand, its a bit arrogant of you to assume your chapter doesn't need any further training. I'll take all I can get.

Quote
The problem is not with the officials, the problem is with the coach.

Look, you can think what you want. But if this is your attitude, why don't you just quit? You're never going to convince the coach of this, so do something productive instead: get better. That doesn't imply that you or anyone else is bad, just that we all can use improvement. Take this as a challenge to work harder and let the results speak for themselves.

I'm sorry, but blaming others for your issues isn't going to help you. And yes, that's exactly what you're doing. If the Austin chapter was as good as you say it is, why did the coaches go outside? I don't think the coaches are going to settle for what they know would be a worse group of officials simply because they fear one crew or one crew chief knows the other coach better than he/they know him.

I'm in a chapter that doesn't get what we feel are our "fair" share of games. My response: yes, we need to see what efforts we might make with the coaches, but before we do that, we need to get better. We need to get our butts in better shape, learn the rules better, quit screwing up penalty enforcements, and get more consistent among crews. Among many other things.

Besides, did it ever dawn on you that while the Austin chapter missed out on the game you referenced, at one time or another they benefitted from that same scenario that took place with another chapter?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 02, 2011, 09:54:08 PM
Okay, you're obviously a troll.  Go away. 
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Joe Stack on December 02, 2011, 10:25:37 PM
Name calling when you're proven wrong? And you're really an official?

Whatever. Nobody is going to read my post and come to your conclusion, but if it makes you feel better, so be it.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 02, 2011, 10:28:40 PM
If you didn't so grossly misinterpret and misread what I wrote, I might have a conversation with you.  But thanks, you've shown you aren't capable of that.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Joe Stack on December 02, 2011, 10:37:41 PM
I'm not going to continue this on a forum. You can email me.

I didn't misrepresent anything. I posted your quote and responded.

Its obvious I struck a nerve and hurt your feelings. That wasn't my intention, but I really can't believe you are this sensitive to criticism. Sheesh. And personal attacks aren't going to enhance your reputation any. You called me a troll and then said I'm incapable of conversation? Really, how silly is that?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 02, 2011, 10:49:38 PM
Troll.  Look it up on Wikipedia.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Joe Stack on December 02, 2011, 11:40:08 PM
I know what it means. You're the one that looks silly.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Hank on December 03, 2011, 12:51:48 AM
That's nothing.  I know of a crew that worked a game at Noon last Saturday, drove 90 miles and worked a second game that day starting at 7:30.

Well, at least the Houston Chapter wouldn't allow that.  1 game/day limit.  You can have 3 in a weekend, but has to be 3 days.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on December 03, 2011, 07:46:09 AM
Nothing rude at all, since I didn't say or come close to inferring that. On the other hand, its a bit arrogant of you to assume your chapter doesn't need any further training. I'll take all I can get.

---- Take this as a challenge to work harder and let the results speak for themselves.

------If the Austin chapter was as good as you say it is, why did the coaches go outside? I don't think the coaches are going to settle for what they know would be a worse group of officials simply because they fear one crew or one crew chief knows the other coach better than he/they know him.

I doubt any of the regular posters on here would ever say their chapter or any other chapter does not need any further traning, and that is NOT what Doc is saying.

You, on the other hand, are  directly saying the reason the Chapter did not get the game was because of some deficiency.  What facts do you base that on?  As Rick pointed out above, there are reasons why coaches will go outside the Chapter that have NOTHING to do with the Chapter's overall abilities.  Possibilities:
1 - Each one had his own list of preferred officials in the Chapter and they were totally different lists.  Since they could not agree within that Chapter, they went to another.  By going to another the coaches are in effect saying they trust the other Chapter will have competent officials but they know that neither one of them will have any "influence" over the crew.

2 - The officials they could agree on were already committed to other games or were otherwise unavailable.

3 - They know they will not be able to use their own Chapter in later rounds and want to go ahead and start using officials from other Chapters now. 

These are the same 2 coaches who have some sort of agreement between themselves that resulted in the chains being operated on the home team sideline. 

Bottom line, trying to comprehend coach reasoning is a lot like trying to understand why women do what they do.  Good luck and it ain't always what it seems.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Joe Stack on December 03, 2011, 01:26:17 PM
Quote
You, on the other hand, are  directly saying the reason the Chapter did not get the game was because of some deficiency.

I never said that there was a deficiency. What I said was that there was OBVIOUSLY a reason the coach didn't pick the Austin chapter. Why? Who knows. It could be something very stupid on his (or their) part(s). What I did say, and what I still believe is that we ALL should take these sorts of things as a challenge to work harder, get better, and make any reasonable decision on future playoff assignments easy for coaches. If they aren't going to be reasonable, then there's nothing we can do about it. But I didn't figure I really needed to emphasize such an obvious point. I also didn't figure I needed to point out that if coaches aren't going to be reasonable, there isn't any point in going and talking to them. I figured Doc was smart enough to know all that.

I NEVER SAID THAT THE COACHES' REASONS WERE JUSTIFIED AND THEREFORE AUSTIN SUCKS. I don't believe either statement (or anything close to them) to be true. You can't argue on one hand that "we all need to get better" is a valid point but on the other hand saying that with respect to Austin and this particular playoff assignment is somehow insulting the chapter. If its valid for one person its valid for everyone and it doesn't insult anyone.

I didn't get a state title game this year (or probably won't -- not holding my breath anyway). Does that mean there's a deficiency in my game? I don't think of it as a deficiency (i.e. a point where I screw up continuously), but I do take it as a challenge to get better for next year starting now. My crew was told by a coach he would likely pick us for a playoff game. That didn't happen. I'm going to work my butt off so next time I work his game, we'll leave no doubt he should pick us. At least, that's what I'll try to do.

Quote
Bottom line, trying to comprehend coach reasoning is a lot like trying to understand why women do what they do.

I couldn't agree with you more here. But you left out three key points in the discussion: the part where Doc suggested someone go talk to the coach -- as stated earlier, why would that do any good if the reasons for not picking the chapter aren't reasonable? Also, the part where I stated that I am in a chapter that, mathematically at least, doesn't get what we think our fair share of the playoff games are, yet my view is not to complain about it but work harder and make the choice obvious. Lofty goal? Perhaps, but I have a habit of setting (and sometimes reaching) lofty goals. Finally, the point about Austin benefitting in the past from a similar situation in another chapter. I'm sure you would agree with me that this situation had to have occurred at one point in time or another. You seem to be focusing on points I didn't make and ignoring points I did.

Look, I don't want to ruin this thread more than it is -- and I'll take partial responsibility for that. But I didn't start this. So please, continue this discussion by message on here. I still don't understand why the defensiveness to the idea of "we all need to get better" exists, or to the idea that coaches picks may not make sense so we need to take that as a challenge to work harder. I'm sorry but that is NOT denigrating anyone, and it baffles me that you would argue it is.

But even with all that, calling me a troll is hardly productive and just as unreasonable as any actions any coach might have made that Doc is complaining about. You have a hard time trying to make the point that I'm blasting the Austin chapter, which is a bad thing on my part, but its OK for you to blast me. I don't care what I'm called, but I was hoping we could keep a mature level of discussion on here.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on December 03, 2011, 01:38:49 PM
I didn't get a state title game this year (or probably won't -- not holding my breath anyway). Does that mean there's a deficiency in my game? I don't think of it as a deficiency (i.e. a point where I screw up continuously), but I do take it as a challenge to get better for next year starting now. My crew was told by a coach he would likely pick us for a playoff game. That didn't happen. I'm going to work my butt off so next time I work his game, we'll leave no doubt he should pick us.


How long have you been officiating?  You don't know what was going on there?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Joe Stack on December 03, 2011, 01:52:44 PM
25+ years, multiple sports. I know exactly what was going on. But he did use our chapter (he uses another one for home games) and I was told by our assignment committee that we were in the mix. We got another game that week.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Hank on December 03, 2011, 01:52:55 PM
...trying to comprehend coach reasoning is a lot like trying to understand why women do what they do.

 LOL

Possibly the funniest thing I've seen posted on Refstripes.

 LOL LOL LOL LOL
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on December 03, 2011, 01:57:59 PM
25+ years, multiple sports. I know exactly what was going on. But he did use our chapter (he uses another one for home games) and I was told by our assignment committee that we were in the mix. We got another game that week.

You  knew what was going on yet you used the non-selection as a reason why you needed to work harder?  While I agree we probably all need to work harder and can improve by doing so, I certainly would not use a non-selection as a reason why i need to do so.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: El Macman on December 04, 2011, 01:53:20 PM
My crew was told by a coach he would likely pick us for a playoff game. That didn't happen. I'm going to work my butt off so next time I work his game, we'll leave no doubt he should pick us. At least, that's what I'll try to do.

Sad state of affairs when we work to meet the expectations of coaches. I'm not a judge - I don't even play one on tv. But, I'm pretty certain they don't concern themselves about what the prosecutors and defendants think about their ability to serve as their judge. Oh, yeah, but then, prosecutors and defendents don't get to pick their judges. Hmmm. Which system is defective...
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: clearwall on December 05, 2011, 10:42:05 AM
Sad state of affairs when we work to meet the expectations of coaches. I'm not a judge - I don't even play one on tv. But, I'm pretty certain they don't concern themselves about what the prosecutors and defendants think about their ability to serve as their judge. Oh, yeah, but then, prosecutors and defendents don't get to pick their judges. Hmmm. Which system is defective...

So you're comparing the US Justice System to the UIL? Seems pretty appropriate to me
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Arbitrator on December 05, 2011, 11:13:45 AM
So you're comparing the US Justice System to the UIL? Seems pretty appropriate to me

 ^flag

Sorry! But I'd have to take a chance on rolling my dice with the U. S. Justice System when compared to the "jurisprudence" that  tiphat: Manor Road  :bOW  :!# would like to richly dole out!   z^
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: clearwall on December 05, 2011, 04:46:48 PM
^flag

Sorry! But I'd have to take a chance on rolling my dice with the U. S. Justice System when compared to the "jurisprudence" that  tiphat: Manor Road  :bOW  :!# would like to richly dole out!   z^

I concur, sir
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Hank on December 06, 2011, 12:27:37 AM
Houston got 3 this weekend.  1 being the 3A state championship game.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on December 06, 2011, 03:11:14 PM
Read 'em and weep boys!   Thanks Doc for updating the list.  The latest and greatest:

http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls (http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls)
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 06, 2011, 03:25:22 PM
Read 'em and weep boys!   Thanks Doc for updating the list.  The latest and greatest:

http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls (http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls)

Had to make one assumption.  We will see if its right.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: clearwall on December 06, 2011, 04:58:12 PM
One thing thats been bugging me a bit, why is Amarillo listed as AMI and not AMA?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on December 06, 2011, 06:27:15 PM
Way to go Austin
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 06, 2011, 06:47:19 PM
One thing thats been bugging me a bit, why is Amarillo listed as AMI and not AMA?

Blame me.  That's what I came up with years ago and its a pain to change all of my reports that pull from those codes, so I left it.  Actually, never really thought about it.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on December 06, 2011, 08:16:23 PM
One thing thats been bugging me a bit, why is Amarillo listed as AMI and not AMA?

As if it is even on there very much!!!    LOL     ;D   nAnA    :sTiR:
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: clearwall on December 06, 2011, 09:20:12 PM
Mike, just wait till I find out where you grew up and ridicule it! nAnA
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on December 06, 2011, 09:47:53 PM
Air Force brat...take your pick 
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TxSkyBolt on December 07, 2011, 06:51:12 AM
Air Force brat...take your pick

I knew there was a small redeeming quality about you, just never could put my finger on it til now.  Bet your Dad was horrified when you joined the Army.  nAnA
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 07, 2011, 07:15:17 AM
 LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Welpe on December 07, 2011, 09:19:09 AM
Blame me.  That's what I came up with years ago and its a pain to change all of my reports that pull from those codes, so I left it.  Actually, never really thought about it.

Are you in charge of issuing airport codes by chance?  ;)
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: clearwall on December 07, 2011, 09:45:33 AM
Air Force brat...take your pick

Base-abe...
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on December 07, 2011, 11:21:44 AM
I knew there was a small redeeming quality about you, just never could put my finger on it til now.  Bet your Dad was horrified when you joined the Army.  nAnA

Not as horrified as he was when he had to be the first enlisted guy who saluted me after I got commissioned  (although he did get a silver dollar out of that deal)    ;D
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: allen on December 07, 2011, 02:24:40 PM
My dad was in the army and I joined the AF.  It hurts my feelings not to be made fun of based on where I grew up!

On a side note, this is only the 2nd State Championship ever for the Amarillo Chapter.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 08, 2011, 08:02:12 AM
One correction to note.

College Station is not working the Port Arthur Mem / Steele game.  I'm still trying to find out what chapter is working this one.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 08, 2011, 08:42:48 AM
Correction to the correction, College Station is working the game!  So my assumption was correct!
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on December 08, 2011, 09:04:51 AM
Better get what they can this year.  Aren't they moving to the SEC next year?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Etref on December 08, 2011, 01:12:01 PM
My dad was in the army and I joined the AF.  It hurts my feelings not to be made fun of based on where I grew up!

On a side note, this is only the 2nd State Championship ever for the Amarillo Chapter.

And I believe the first one was a split crew, if I am not mistaken.  Boggs and Otis for AM
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: rickref on December 08, 2011, 01:50:19 PM
And I believe the first one was a split crew, if I am not mistaken.  Boggs and Otis for AM

Rick it was a full crew from here then.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 08, 2011, 02:37:27 PM
2003 6 Man Final, AMI worked Fort Davis vs Strawn.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on December 11, 2011, 05:35:24 PM
Did you "AmIrillo" boys flag this leap yesterday?   ;)

(http://www.safootballchapter.us/leap.jpg)
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: allen on December 11, 2011, 10:23:42 PM
Did you "AmIrillo" boys flag this leap yesterday?   ;)

(http://www.safootballchapter.us/leap.jpg)

Lol, no.

Was a fantastic game and an experience I will never forget.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Hank on December 12, 2011, 04:00:40 PM
Houston got the 3A game this weekend.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: allen on December 12, 2011, 04:19:53 PM
Lubbock got the 4A.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TXMike on December 12, 2011, 04:29:44 PM
Which one?
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: allen on December 12, 2011, 05:01:57 PM
All I know is 4A Saturday at Cowboys stadium.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: williebe on December 12, 2011, 07:08:40 PM
LBK has the*Manvel/ Aledo game
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: bjudge on December 12, 2011, 07:32:05 PM
Tyler has the 4A Div.I and the 5A Div.I games
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: Headlinesman on December 13, 2011, 06:08:15 AM
What shirts will they be wearing? LOL
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: bjudge on December 13, 2011, 07:15:31 AM
I can assure you that they will NOT be wearing the 2" stripe shirt!
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: TexDoc on December 13, 2011, 07:38:11 AM
Here's what I've heard so far:

SLC / FBH - Tyler
Dekaney / Steele - ?
Midway / LT - Tyler
Aledo / Manvel - South Plains
Argyle / Wimberley - Houston
Melissa / Hempstead - Centex
Cisco / Refugio - Dallas
Stamford / Mason - Dallas
Munday / Teneha - Austin

I do not know how accurate this is at this point.  More to come.
Title: Re: 2011 Playoffs
Post by: backjudge85 on December 14, 2011, 02:28:04 AM
Waco has the Dekaney/Steele game....