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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on November 19, 2011, 02:06:24 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcyCn88Yjs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcyCn88Yjs)
It does not appear to me it was kicked into the ground but maybe someone else has better eyes.
If not kicked into the ground, KCI?
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^flag
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Kicker contacts the ball very low and it goes immediately up high - no ground contact/bounce. Given that we've got to have KCI. ^flag
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Can IR get involved here?
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Regardless of whether or not it hit the ground first, it looks to me like A blocks before they're elegible to touch the ball... at the very least it's extremely close (look at :34 into the youtube clip). What's the philosophy on this?
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Regardless of whether or not it hit the ground first, it looks to me like A blocks before they're elegible to touch the ball... at the very least it's extremely close (look at :34 into the youtube clip). What's the philosophy on this?
I was going to mention the same thing. There should be a flag for SOMETHING on this play either way. If the ball did hit the ground and bounced, illegal block(blocker made contact at the 41 when the ball was at the 38, 39) or KCI because the ball was in the air and A contacted the B receiver before he had a chance to catch it.
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Can IR get involved here?
The only thing that is reviewable is illegal touching. Since the ball was touched by A more that ten yards replay will not get involved. As to the ball touching the ground, that is not reviewable.
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I totally agree with CenTexTM & Clearwall.
Either illegal block or KCI ...
However ... what an upset!
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The IBB is incredibly close, even in sow motion, as the angle we have here makes the ball appear further back than it actually is. Maybe, but certainly not definitive.
But the kick never touched the ground. The motion of the kickers foot is a downward blow low on the ball, which causes it to pop up in the air, just like a 60 degree wedge popping a golf ball from the rough. That's makes the actions of ISU a KCI foul.
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I think an unbeknownst onside kick is THE toughest play to officiate - hands down. One official (the S or F) has to monitor two events - the ball's progress with respect to the A-40 and Team A players blocking. To apparently get better coverage, some conferences instruct the upfront officials to key Team A, instead of B.
It appears the S in this play did not move an inch. He may have been the recipient of a whisper in the ear prior to the kick. Note, at the end of the play, he reaches to "cinch up his pants". Hmmmm.
BTW, who watches to determine if the kick is immediately airborne or bounces off the turf? Is it the B or U? He is key for a potential KCI call.
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I think we should treat all kickoffs as first onside, then normal. If you start in the onside mode and the kick is long, you have a few seconds to adjust to the normal running play, but if you start in the normal mode and the kick is onside, you don't have any time to adjust.
Granted, with 4-5 officials, covering an onside kick from the normal positions is tough, but that's what we have to live with.
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We had an onside kick in a game this year with 5 man crew. I was just outside the pylon when the ball was kicked. From my view 60 yards away, it was obvious the ball was kicked into the ground and then bounced high into the air. During a discussion among the crew, the guys on the kickers restraining line stated that it is difficult to watch offsides and to see if the ball was kicked into the ground. We have had several onsides kicks that went high in the air this year. Each time, it was always clearly apparent from my position on the goal as whether or not the ball touched the ground. Does it make sense for that to be the responsilibity of an official 60 yards away? Typical logic says no. What say you?
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We had an onside kick in a game this year with 5 man crew. I was just outside the pylon when the ball was kicked. From my view 60 yards away, it was obvious the ball was kicked into the ground and then bounced high into the air. During a discussion among the crew, the guys on the kickers restraining line stated that it is difficult to watch offsides and to see if the ball was kicked into the ground. We have had several onsides kicks that went high in the air this year. Each time, it was always clearly apparent from my position on the goal as whether or not the ball touched the ground. Does it make sense for that to be the responsilibity of an official 60 yards away? Typical logic says no. What say you?
Well, yes and no. If you saw it kicked into the ground, then IMO you should "help" with the call. So, if the H, or BJ called KCI, you should help them wave it off. But assume the kick didn't hit the ground and you saw it, now do you warm up and toss your flag 40 - 50 yards when you see KCI? If I do that, the coach is going to ask me why I didn't get a bionic arm (because my flag landed on the 20, 30 yards from the foul) when i got my bionic eyes. Now as for watching it, I agree, you might as well. After all, what else do you have to look at? The U, H and BJ have too much to watch I'd certainly agree with that. That's one reason I prefer short kick formation. We go long formation on the first kick and then short unless it seems obvious a team "should" kick deep. If a coach tells us he pooches every time, short formation the whole game.