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Football Officiating => NCAA Discussion => Topic started by: TXMike on December 28, 2011, 03:47:09 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAPZAJ4aRZ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAPZAJ4aRZ0)
Interesting play from last night. Those of us working the 8th crew position (sitting on the couch at home in the live discussion room) realized right away something was not right with the enforcement. Do you see it?
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Questionable late hit call followed by the worst possible enforcement error... I think the crew won't be very happy after they realized their error...
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Crew had a rough night. Blackwood sure didn't want to throw them under the bus but he could have.
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Please correct me if I am wrong.
The ruling on the field was Late Hit (15 yards) NC State retained possession.
If it was 4th Down, once the QB ran stepped out of bounds @ 28yd line the clocks stops and that is the end of the series. So the “Late Hit” call should have been a DEAD BALL FOUL.
My thoughts are:
•Turnover on downs
•PF Late Hit (Half the distance)
•Louisville Ball (1 & 10) from the 14 yd line
Please advise
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Correct. The R did not announce it as a dead ball foul but there is no way it could have been a live ball foul
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Here is what I will do: If you are not involved with the play, figure out the enforcement in your head prior to your R's announcement so you will know if you need to help the crew out.
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I tried to see if there was any action away from play that might have been a live ball foul. You cannot see based on camera angle. The player did hold him up and should have been a no call if that were the call. There are 7 men on the field and someone needs to pick up that it was 4th down. The other issue is even if it were 3rd down it looks like they still got the enforcement wrong. It looks like the player went out around the 23 or 24 yard line. So they should be snapping from around the 11.5 or 12 yard line. A total mental lapse here.
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Player went out at 28 so 1/2 the distance took it to 14. It was the H's flagh and he was looking at this act onthe QB all the way so that had to be the foul.
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yikes. that's tough that 7 guys all spaced on it being a DB foul after 4th down. surprised that nobody on the louisville bench noticed it either. not that the coaches/players know all the rules, or that it's on them to correct officials' mistakes...just saying that I'd imagine somoene on the bench would be in the coach's ear, saying we stopped them shy of the LTG so we get the ball.
also is this not a situation where replay can buzz the WH before the next snap?
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The H threw the flag to the 25 yard line, the R never announced a number for the fouler, the call was not announced as a dead ball foul, and the announcment was for "Unnecessary Roughness". Given all of that, I watched to see if there was any defensive player near the 25 on whom this could have been a live ball foul.
Nope. The only possible foul was on the tackler, and that clearly would have been OOB and a dead ball foul. Poor judgment call, followed by a really botched enforcement. Ouch.
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Very unfortunate. I imagine each one of the crew did not sleep well last night, maybe for the next couple of nights as well.
I know it's not part of there job description, but a good chain crew - especially the box man - can save the crew in these sorts of situations. As part of their pregame instructions, I have heard many good Hs tell the boxman to help him out with late flags on fourth down plays. Isn't the chain crew in bowl games composed of area football officials?
Also, the L is usually in a good position to save the crew in this particular situation. He is removed from the hubbub, can see the LTG and has a good sense for ball carrier's forward progress & the status of the ball at the time of the alleged foul.
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According to 12.3.5, FR 103 correcting the number of the down as it relates to the enforcement of a penalty is reviewable. It does specify automatic first downs and a loss of down so to me this cloud things a little. All this being said it sure would have been appropriate for the RO to buzz down and ask the R exactly what he has to "re-boot" the thought process. Someone needs to step up.
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When I saw this last night I just assumed that the call was for a live ball foul and not on the OB action after the play although the flag source and direction seemed to say otherwise. Maybe if the R was more detailed on the penalty announcement (ie: add the ball status and the fouling player number) some lights would have gone on and someone in the crew would have realized that the 1st down for team A was a mistake.
I did notice that the S was quick to the OB area to keep things under control and showed unusual athleticism as he hurdled the ESPN banner at full speed (OK - maybe half speed).
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Interesting play from last night. Those of us working the 8th crew position (sitting on the couch at home in the live discussion room) realized right away something was not right with the enforcement. Do you see it?
do you have the stripes on as you watch? with this position placard? ;)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/chymechowder/couch-1.png)
actually that'd be a good idea. when your wife comes in the tv room and tells you to take the trash out, you could point to your shirt and tell her youre working.
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do you have the stripes on as you watch? with this position placard? ;)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/chymechowder/couch-1.png)
actually that'd be a good idea. when your wife comes in the tv room and tells you to take the trash out, you could point to your shirt and tell her youre working.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Where can I buy that placard? LOL
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actually that'd be a good idea. when your wife comes in the tv room and tells you to take the trash out, you could point to your shirt and tell her youre working.
She'll want my game check!
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She'll want my game check!
AMEN!!! :thumbup LOL
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do you have the stripes on as you watch? with this position placard? ;)
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/chymechowder/couch-1.png)
I just go with "R" (for 'recliner')...
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Assuming it was a DB foul, and I can't believe it wasn't, this is a whole crew and IR goof up. When the R has a brain fart, and we often do, everyone has to step up. We see this at the high school level a lot and we're trying hard to instill "everyone is an R"!
With that said, maybe it was reported to the R incorrectly? Not good but at least it somewhat better.
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We had this "reporting" discussion in the chat room. The R was right there coverign the same action that the H was covering so he had to know what it was for regardless of what was said. Which brings up the other point..neither the R nor teh hurdling S flagged this but the H did. Someone should have taken him off it
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Not sure of someone taking the calling official off of this as it's really hard to see at field level with all the folks on the sideline. We have the luxury of seeing it up top.
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I don't think Blackwood agrees with you. ;)
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Perhaps, but he had the high view. :)
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I think Blackwood and the WAC wish this call was never made! All 7 officials should know penalty enforcement. The LJ should have at least asked why they did not enforce it as as a dead ball and bring up the situation with the Referee and the Headlines. The onside kick block was a huge miss as well when see the player get hit high and early. The WAC has to be embarrassed by there crews performance!
That has been the worst officiated game this bowl season!
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And here I was thinking I was the only dweeb who had seen EVERY game this bowl season... ::)
You have seen all of them? And you still think this was the "worse officiated"....? Was there anything beside these 2 errors you pointed out already?
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Maybe we should take a step back here. The camera angle does not reference a good position in regards to the LJ's angle. Yes we see the TV line. Also, another point to be taken from this is that there are many factors involved with the replay the LJ the game clock operator at the line etc. etc. This board is about officials it is not about ripping people apart because your a fan. It is to help teach officials and make them better. Now if everyone on this board has had perfect games their entire career then they have room to judge otherwise they don't. Look at the clip to learn not to rip people apart.
I think Blackwood and the WAC wish this call was never made! All 7 officials should know penalty enforcement. The LJ should have at least asked why they did not enforce it as as a dead ball and bring up the situation with the Referee and the Headlines. The onside kick block was a huge miss as well when see the player get hit high and early. The WAC has to be embarrassed by there crews performance!
That has been the worst officiated game this bowl season!
What happened over the past couple of years?
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ref1234, it is pretty impressive that you remember a post from 2 years ago, and then find it. aWaRd I cannot remember things from 2 days ago. hEaDbAnG
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ref1234, it is pretty impressive that you remember a post from 2 years ago, and then find it. aWaRd I cannot remember things from 2 days ago. hEaDbAnG
...especially since this was his first post ever. :o
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ref1234, it is pretty impressive that you remember a post from 2 years ago, and then find it. aWaRd I cannot remember things from 2 days ago. hEaDbAnG
I've been following this board for a long time...I've just never registered until now. I saw that "badcall" only had two posts so I checked his profile page to see what they were. I thought it was interesting.
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good show, old boy!
(http://www-deadline-com.vimg.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/sherlockholmes110914000424.jpg)
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She'll want my game check!
^flag
Just endearingly let the little lady know that she can definitely have sole ownership of the game check for all those games that are called with that "C" placket mounted on your back. And also give her specific instructions to frequently make a trail out to the mailbox to check and see if the mailman has dropped that game check off for her! z^
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This can/will happen at every level.
This same thing happened to me at a 10 yo Pop Warner Game this season. I was the most experienced official of the three and I worked the home team sideline.
There was a late hit OOB against B but A hadn't made the line to gain. It was early in the 2nd Quarter. It was my flag. I brought the other two guys together and I explained that since A hadn't made the LTG, B would get the ball -15, I was not 100% sure in my mind and I questioned the other two guys, they agreed.
I announced the penalty and my coach went nuts, argued with me for a prolonged period and got his staff in on it, too. He started taunting me as I worked the sideline, threatening to protest the game. He was in my head.
I perservered, finished the game, the home team lost handily. I worked the next game and on my way home made a bunch of calls.
We got it right, but boy was that a rough experience, I hope our brothers out west aren't too hard on themselves and know that we all have a sick feeling in our stomachs for them, too.
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[quote IDIOT link=topic=8943.msg86610#msg86610 date=1325732790]
This same thing happened to me at a 10 yo Pop Warner Game this season. I was the most experienced official of the three and I worked the home team sideline.
There was a late hit OOB against B but A hadn't made the line to gain. It was early in the 2nd Quarter. It was my flag. I brought the other two guys together and I explained that since A hadn't made the LTG, B would get the ball -15, I was not 100% sure in my mind and I questioned the other two guys, they agreed.
I announced the penalty and my coach went nuts, argued with me for a prolonged period and got his staff in on it, too. He started taunting me as I worked the sideline, threatening to protest the game. He was in my head.
[/quote]
I hope this episode taught you to not deal with this sort of garbage in the future. You made the right call and allowed 10U coaches to walk all over you for the rest of the game. While I hate to do it, sometimes you just have to dump a youth coach.