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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: east louis on January 23, 2012, 10:22:10 AM
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anybody get any feedback from last wknd's NFHS football rules mtg yet about any changes?
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The Fed usually keeps that info close to the vest until the final approvals are received.
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You got about a month for a press release as I recall how it goes.
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You got about a month for a press release as I recall how it goes.
That's about right. Until then, speculation can run rampant. :sTiR:
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You got about a month for a press release as I recall how it goes.
Yep, they usually have 'em out before spring practice starts.
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Then we're down to changing rules for the sake of change. Searching for a non-existent problem.
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The earliest we have gotten the release was on Valentine's Day, which we did for a few years. The last year or two, it's been later than that.
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The earliest we have gotten the release was on Valentine's Day, which we did for a few years. The last year or two, it's been later than that.
I recall posts in days gone by on other boards from "insiders" who would give us a preview of what transpired, before the official press release. Are those spies still around? 8]
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I cannot confirm or deny this information but I was told from a crediable source. There will be a "change to free kicks" That is all...
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Our state super's e mail stated that the changes could not yet be released as they had not rec'd final approval. It also indicated that the mechanics manual is in for some revamping.
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It also indicated that the mechanics manual is in for some revamping.
I hope they're not putting the U on a post for PATs and FGs.
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I hope they're not putting the U on a post for PATs and FGs.
That is the Ohio mechanic, it worked for us.
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I hope they're not putting the U on a post for PATs and FGs.
To me this would make sense especially for PATs. I would go with anything snapped inside the 15.
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Having a sideline exposed seems more of a concern than having U step back a few yards to cover a post. It seems like a reasonable change in 5 man mechanics.
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Having a sideline exposed seems more of a concern than having U step back a few yards to cover a post.
Who do you propose will cover the $h!t that goes on in between the tackles on these plays?
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Personally, I see the rationale on U being under posts on trys.
H/L still have full & complete LOS duties on fakes. - no scrambling around.
U can "cover the $h!t that goes on in between the tackles on these plays" until toe contacts ball. Once this happens, he will focus on uprights.
I really don't see the drawbacks unless I'm missing something.
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So the ump will get about a 1.4 second look at the line to see roughing the snapper, holding, hands to the face, cheap shot flippers, etc., process it, throw a flag, then refocuse on the ball and upright. Sure, not a problem!
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So the ump will get about a 1.4 second look at the line to see roughing the snapper, holding, hands to the face, cheap shot flippers, etc., process it, throw a flag, then refocuse on the ball and upright. Sure, not a problem!
good points bus.
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good points bus.
Glad I'm not the only one who sees this. And I'm not a Umpire.
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So the ump will get about a 1.4 second look at the line ...
1.25 seconds if it's my team!
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Since the "post(s)" are buried in the ground, I doubt if you'll ever see an official positioned there, with the possible exception being New Jersey. ;D
Now some may put the U under an "upright" along side the B thus usually resulting in a Laural and Hardy appearance but it may not be a good suggestion to have a U looking up as he could lose his equilibrium and topple over.
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The mechanic for Umpires under an upright is great. It works very well for the H/LJ who can see down the line for jumping on players just fine. It also allows them to easily beat a runner to the GL and GL extended, which is nearly impossible for the H/LJ if they are under an upright. If a foul like holding or leaping occurs the Umpire need not worry about chucking the flag to the spot, we know where the spot is, the LOS. The benefits of this mechanic change far outreach its flaws. Ohio uses it and it's gotten great feedback.
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One more reason I appreciate 6 and 7 man crews (plus an ECO)!
No 5 man crews on Friday nights here. While 5 is the minimum allowed for a Varsity game, we haven't had a 5 man crew in 6 or 7 years, and that was way out in a rural town.
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Since the "post(s)" are buried in the ground, I doubt if you'll ever see an official positioned there, with the possible exception being New Jersey. ;D
Now some may put the U under an "upright" along side the B thus usually resulting in a Laural and Hardy appearance but it may not be a good suggestion to have a U looking up as he could lose his equilibrium and topple over.
Now that was just uncalled for!
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If a foul like holding or leaping occurs...
When did leaping become a foul in Fed? Or is that an Ohio rule, too?
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"It works very well for the H/LJ who can see down the line for jumping on players just fine. It also allows them to easily beat a runner to the GL and GL extended, which is nearly impossible for the H/LJ if they are under an upright."
In the current mechanic, you still have the H to watch for encroachment fouls. U favors the LJ side, and depending on location, will move up or back to the goal line (up for a standard PAT, back for a longer FG) to determine penetration between him and the LJ sideline. This is the one instance where U can signal TD. When the LJ determines it is not a kick, he goes straight down the end line to the sideline where he has boundary only coverage. LJ and U make eye contact on anything close to that side before signaling.
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Now that was just uncalled for!
LOL
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As an umpire who works under the post on all scoring kicks inside the 15 I can attest that it works just fine. Wings have better coverage on the outside if the snap or kick goes bad or is a fake. The U can rule on snap infractions, protect the snapper, and once the ball crosses the end line I can still watch for extra activity in the middle.
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Okay so it's classified as Illegal Personal Contact in 9-4-3-e.
9-4-3-e is not leaping.
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good points bus.
Rarely do I see a foul after the kick is in the air. The U can see this from this position on the end line. Wings can crash in after the kick is gone and clean up.
Statistically speaking, I've seen more kick plays break down than crap happen in the middle. I like the U under the post mechanic.
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Rarely do I see a foul after the kick is in the air. The U can see this from this position on the end line.
So is he watching for a foul down low, or is he focused on the post up high? He can't do both in less than 2 seconds.
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Word on the street is that 14 proposals made it out of the sub-committees and 8 were passed. It will be interesting to see if any are significant or more editorial in nature. It would also be very interesting to know what the six were that did not pass.
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Word is that one change is making it illegal for K to block until they are eligible to posses the kick. Just like college.
hopefully this was a pun.
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Rarely do I see a foul after the kick is in the air. The U can see this from this position on the end line. Wings can crash in after the kick is gone and clean up.
Statistically speaking, I've seen more kick plays break down than crap happen in the middle. I like the U under the post mechanic.
Seriously? I think I can count on one hand the number of fake or aborted FG/tries we had all last season but there are at least a few FG/tries each game where guys continue to rumble after the ball has been kicked and me getting in there right away helps diffuse it and get the guys back to their sidelines. I can't imagine how bad it would be if I wasn't in there immediately with my voice.
If you are willing to take the risk of guys self-policing in the middle of the big-uglies you'll be fine. From my experience at U if I'm not in the pile (even on regular scrimmage plays) with my voice on every down, things get chippy really quick.
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Seriously? I think I can count on one hand the number of fake or aborted FG/tries we had all last season but there are at least a few FG/tries each game where guys continue to rumble after the ball has been kicked and me getting in there right away helps diffuse it and get the guys back to their sidelines. I can't imagine how bad it would be if I wasn't in there immediately with my voice.
If you are willing to take the risk of guys self-policing in the middle of the big-uglies you'll be fine. From my experience at U if I'm not in the pile (even on regular scrimmage plays) with my voice on every down, things get chippy really quick.
I'll have to agree with the Magic man. This is what our Umpires experience year in and year out.
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The mechanic requires both the H and LJ to crash in once the ball is kicked. We were able to stop any chippyness that happened...but honestly I don't recall it happening once. We did however have broken plays/bad snaps.
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Seriously? I think I can count on one hand the number of fake or aborted FG/tries we had all last season but there are at least a few FG/tries each game where guys continue to rumble after the ball has been kicked and me getting in there right away helps diffuse it and get the guys back to their sidelines. I can't imagine how bad it would be if I wasn't in there immediately with my voice.
If you are willing to take the risk of guys self-policing in the middle of the big-uglies you'll be fine. From my experience at U if I'm not in the pile (even on regular scrimmage plays) with my voice on every down, things get chippy really quick.
FG attempts are few in prep football anyway. Mostly this mechanic applies to PATs. While I der the post I can easily see action at the snap, notcie the trajectory of the kick, look up and make the call, then bring eyes back down to the LOS while signalling. There just isn't that much activity to flag anyway. KHSAA has been using this mechanic for years and no problems have been reported, other than a preference for the old mechanic by a few.
And if you haave a short FG, the extra yards are not that big of a deal for umpires. But having two wings is a benefit when that play heads for the pylon. If the kick goes as planned, the wings crashing in form the sides can control anything the U misses in the second or 2 he's looking up the post.
I watch for the snap (infraction) and protect the snapper. Look up, look back down, then signal result while continuing to officiate the middle, with help from the wings. If the trajectory of the kick is to the opposite post, I don't even look up, and let the BJ make the call.
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FG attempts are few in prep football anyway. Mostly this mechanic applies to PATs. While I der the post I can easily see action at the snap, notcie the trajectory of the kick, look up and make the call, then bring eyes back down to the LOS while signalling. There just isn't that much activity to flag anyway. KHSAA has been using this mechanic for years and no problems have been reported, other than a preference for the old mechanic by a few.
And if you haave a short FG, the extra yards are not that big of a deal for umpires. But having two wings is a benefit when that play heads for the pylon. If the kick goes as planned, the wings crashing in form the sides can control anything the U misses in the second or 2 he's looking up the post.
I watch for the snap (infraction) and protect the snapper. Look up, look back down, then signal result while continuing to officiate the middle, with help from the wings. If the trajectory of the kick is to the opposite post, I don't even look up, and let the BJ make the call.
I very rarely flag anything either. That's not the point. It's more about getting in there with my voice immediately to prevent unnecessary action. I know I've prevented several incidents from escalating by having a presence. The wings would not be able to get there fast enough for that.
In 12 years of doing this I think I can still count on one hand the number of times a scrimmage kick scoring play resulted in any threat on a pylon or sideline. I don't think having the U on the upright is a horrible mechanic that should never be used. I just prefer to play the percentages. 5-man mechanics leave a hole somewhere on every play. I like to play the percentages when considering which mechanics are the best. Given these two options I'll pick the option that covers something that happens 2-3 times per game than something that happens 5 times in 12 years.
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Our Ohio mechanics call for the wings to be at the numbers (ball in the middle, if ball on hash we move out) and we come into the line to cover dead ball action after the kick is made. We have not had any problems with the mechanic (well so far at least...).
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Magician, after several years of this mechanic in KHSAA, I have heard no compaints from officials or coaches about it. I believe you're overthinking this. I'm not saying it's the only mechanic that works, but that it does work.
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FG attempts are few in prep football anyway. Mostly this mechanic applies to PATs.
Few and far between? We were 16 of 17 on FG's this year, and only attempted 24 PATs.
You need better kickers (or kicking coaches!).
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Few and far between? We were 16 of 17 on FG's this year, and only attempted 24 PATs.
You need better kickers (or kicking coaches!).
It definitely would help, but I think you're the only HS kicking coach I've ever heard of :) (assuming you coach kickers and that is all)
Your school must have a very nice budget to afford a kicking coach. haha.
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Few and far between? We were 16 of 17 on FG's this year, and only attempted 24 PATs.
You need better kickers (or kicking coaches!).
In 12 games this past season, our crew only had 5 or 6 FG attempts to officiate. Very minor part of most HS games. Maybe it's that teams in Oklahoma score TDs instead of FGs!
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In 12 games this past season, our crew only had 5 or 6 FG attempts to officiate. Very minor part of most HS games. Maybe it's that teams in Oklahoma score TDs instead of FGs!
That or you punt if you are outside the 25 yard line!
If we cross midfield, we're getting the FG team ready. If we reach the 35, we have points in the bank.
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I think the longest FG I saw this year was +/-42 yds.
(If I'm not mistaken, it was the longest attempted from the games I worked too)
Round my parts, kickers isn't so much an area of expertise.
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I think the longest FG I saw this year was +/-42 yds.
(If I'm not mistaken, it was the longest attempted from the games I worked too)
Round my parts, kickers isn't so much an area of expertise.
I almost got to signal a successful 58-yard FG in Lucas Oil Stadium. He was about 4 yards short. Nice kick for a HS player! We had a few 45+ but most are within 30 yards.
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At a small 2A school in Arkansas this fall. Exchange student from Germany landed in this coach's lap. Best athlete on the team. Ran the ball, caught the ball, and nailed a 49 yard FG on the first possession with room to spare. Longest one I have seen in high school.
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Longest my kicker had in a game this year was 51, and he nailed it with 7 or 8 yards to spare. His only miss (out of 17) was from 59 in the Georgia Dome, where he went brain dead, and came up about 4-5 yards short ("I didn't realize what yard line we were on, Coach.") 9 of his made FGs were 41 yards or more. Made a 49 in a steady rain one night, on a grass field.
He has hit a 63 in practice, but there was no rush coming at him!
He played in the Georgia Rising Seniors Bowl game in December (an All Star game for juniors). I nominated him for the game, and found out that his first nomination came from an official. The official was the cousin of one of the game organizers, and called his cuz after week one of the season and said, "Found a kicker for your game".
And yes, I understand he is the exception, but even last year we were 12 for 15 on field goals (long of 47). Field goals are a significant part of our game plan.
Video available upon request!
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He has hit a 63 in practice, but there was no rush coming at him!
He may not have had a rush coming at him; but I bet he has a "rush of recruiters" coming at him....
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If we reach the 35, we have points in the bank.
Dang!! 52 yard FGs are automatic!?! :o
I don't think that is the case in college or the NFL but then again they don't have a famous, movie star kicking coach! aWaRd
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Dang!! 52 yard FGs are automatic!?! :o
I don't think that is the case in college or the NFL but then again they don't have a famous, movie star kicking coach! aWaRd
And I've never had a kid with this kind of leg!
In "normal" years, I expect 100% success from 42 yards or less (37 for the JV kids). With him, I expect 100% from 47 or less, but I'm finding that 52 on in and he is golden.
As for the recruiters, it's funny. He already has 3 D1 offers (Auburn, Boston College, Ga Tech). In the past two weeks, we have had phone calls from Vandy, Stanford, Texas, Ohio State and Notre Dame. But some of those calls are judging interest and expectations. There are still many schools that don't think they need to use a scholarship on a kicker, that they can pick one up as a walkon, and they can earn their scholarship over time.
I met with the staff of one of those schools yesterday. In a nice way, I tried to show them that they could have turned two of last year's losses into wins if they had a kicker that was consistent from just 40 yards. They went 8 for 14 on FGs last year, and 4 of the 6 misses were from less than 40 yards! How can you look at that and still think you don't need to invest a scholarship in a kicker?
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Dang!! 52 yard FGs are automatic!?!
I don't think that is the case in college or the NFL but then again they don't have a famous, movie star kicking coach!
Nor are they allowed to elevate the ball up to 2" before kicking.
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Nor are they allowed to elevate the ball up to 2" before kicking.
None of my kickers use a 2" block for FGs. Most use a 1", the kid with the big leg uses one about 1/2". The 1/2" block is more to make sure the hold is going to be on level ground. As Jack Nicklaus says, "If you are allowed to use a tee, why would you not? You always have a perfect lie." (Jack always used a tee, even on par threes).
I have already started work with him on kicking from the ground. There are two basic adjustments that must be made, and he's doing well with them. Short term, he may lose a few yards off the ground, but that won't last long. But for his senior season, he will kick with makes him him the best kicker for our TEAM, not his future, and he is fine with that decision.