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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: BryanM67 on September 10, 2012, 09:57:37 PM
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Here's a scenario.
Onside kick from K40. R12 slides on the ground and grabs the ball at the same time his right foot is touching the sideline. Rule 2-29 specifies that the player is out of bounds (since he is touching the sideline) and as a result, the ball is dead (since the "out of bounds" player is touching the ball).
My questions:
a. Would this kick be considered as "kicked out of bounds without touching" as it was NEVER touched before it was considered "out of bounds"? (refer to 6.1.8)
b. Could illegal participation apply - since the player is "out of bounds"? (refer to 9-6-1)
Just wondering..
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A. No foul, possession was made by R, but unfortunately he was out of bounds.
B. Same, no foul since possession was made at the same time he stepped out
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Since R is out of bounds when the ball touches him, the kicker has caused the ball to be out of bounds. See case book 6.1.8 Situation C (b) (on page 43). If the covering official rules R touches the ball while OOB, K has fouled.
If R catches the kick while airborne and then steps OOB, or if the covering official rules R caught the ball then stepped OOB, K has not fouled.
Rule 9-6-2b states "no player shall intentionally go out of bounds during the down and intentionally touch the ball." So unless the covering official ruled R12's action intentional (and it appears it was not), R12 would not be guilty of illegal participation.
Rule 9-6-1 applies to A or K, not B or R.
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A. No foul, possession was made by R, but unfortunately he was out of bounds.
B. Same, no foul since possession was made at the same time he stepped out
Disagree on A. Since the R player was out of bounds, K has caused the ball to be kicked out of bounds.
No IP, though.
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Disagree on A. Since the R player was out of bounds, K has caused the ball to be kicked out of bounds.
No IP, though.
Right. As AFSST mentions, 6.1.8C:
6.1.8 SITUATION C: R1 is running near a sideline as he attempts to catch a free
kick in flight. R1 has: (a) both feet inbounds; or (b) one foot on the sideline, when
he reaches through the plane of the sideline. The ball bounces off his hands and
lands out of bounds. RULING: In (a), the ball is not yet out of bounds until it hit
the ground there. Since R1 touched it, he caused it to go out of bounds and R will
have the ball at the inbounds spot. In (b), since R1 is out of bounds when the ball
is touched, the kicker has caused the ball to be out of bounds.
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Great question! This may be one of the most difficult plays to accurately assess, and this play can happen. The easy way out on such a close play is to rule the player had possession just prior to touching the line. That way you won't need an armed escort to get you off the field. LOL
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If I have this play, I'm ruling that the receiver touched the ball before he was OOB.
The ruling in the case book says the receiver reaches through the sideline plane, meaning the kick has already broken the OOB side of the sideline. It's obviously going OOB. That's important or it wouldn't have been included in the play.
K shouldn't be penalized because R is OOB and the ball is inbounds.
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K shouldn't be penalized because R is OOB and the ball is inbounds.
The ball is OOB when it touches a player who is OOB. If R is touching a sideline boundary (or beyond) when he first touches the ball, he is OOB and so is the ball. Like it or not, K fouled.
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The ball is OOB when it touches a player who is OOB. If R is touching a sideline boundary (or beyond) when he first touches the ball, he is OOB and so is the ball. Like it or not, K fouled.
I'm always surprised when an official lets his sense of fairness trump his rules knowledge. If K doesn't want to risk a kick OOB flag, don't kick it to within 60 inches of the sideline!
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If R catches the kick while airborne and then steps OOB, or if the covering official rules R caught the ball then stepped OOB, K has not fouled.
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This is only half right... If R catches the kick while airborne and does not establish possession of the ball inbounds, then this is a free kick OOB also.
I've heard basketball officials talk about a player being where he was until he gets where he is going, but in football the player is where he ends up. In this case, the airborne player is OOB when he completes the catch/recovery, so there was no catch/recovery (2-4-1 & 2-36-1). Thus, K is responsible for the ball being OOB.
You are correct that if R caught the ball then stepped out, then K has not fouled.
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This is only half right... If R catches the kick while airborne and does not establish possession of the ball inbounds, then this is a free kick OOB also.
Incorrect. If R touches the ball in the field of play, K is off the hook for kick OOB.
Rule 6-1-8:
"A free kick shall not be kicked out of bounds between the goal lines
untouched inbounds by R."
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A comment from an NCAA official. Don't confuse current NCAA rules with the NFHS rules. In NCAA, the rule currently says that when an airborne team B player secures an untouched team A free kick and then lands out of bounds with the ball, it is a foul for team A. This is a recent rule change by the rules editor and it baffled many officials a couple of years ago.
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As mentioned earlier, if the covering official judges that R did not go out of bounds intentionally, no foul - which covers the OP as presented.
While the rule remains unchanged, the FED has added Case book play 9.6.2C for 2012 which covers the scenario where the receiver intentionally goes OOB and then intentionally touches the kick - ostensibly to kill the play and prevent K from recovering. The ruling calls for IP penalty on R and it is NOT a free kick OOB foul on K.
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That's right, I forgot about that one. I still chuckle over the rationale provided by the ruling. LOL
*9.6.2 SITUATION C: K1 free-kicks the ball toward the sideline. R1 runs to a sideline and intentionally steps out of bounds. While R1 is still out of bounds, he intentionally touches the ball as it nears the sideline. The ball is declared dead by the covering official.
RULING: Illegal participation by R1. This is not a kick out of bounds as the ball was touched by an R player and the ball became dead when it was touched. (4-3-1; 6-1-8)
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Key word used twice: "intentionally"