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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: HLinNC on November 25, 2012, 08:14:11 AM
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http://www.nfhs.org/questionnaire/
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Survey expires January 4 and there are sure a lot of additional items that could be included!
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Very easy to use format. I hope others will complete the survey.
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Any idea how one would request consideration for a rule modification proposal?
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Any idea how one would request consideration for a rule modification proposal?
You have to submit it to your state office. They then submit it to the national office. The national office will only accept proposals from the state rep, not from individuals. All proposed changes must be into the national office by Nov 1, so the state deadline is earlier than that (ours is Sep 30). You must submit the new rule as it would be written (not just an idea), along with an explanation of why it should be changed, as well as any other rules than might be affected by the change.
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You have to submit it to your state office. They then submit it to the national office. The national office will only accept proposals from the state rep, not from individuals. All proposed changes must be into the national office by Nov 1, so the state deadline is earlier than that (ours is Sep 30). You must submit the new rule as it would be written (not just an idea), along with an explanation of why it should be changed, as well as any other rules than might be affected by the change.
Its too bad they would let us add some comments to the end of the survey. I would like to see NFHS change the taunting rule to something NCAA making it a live ball foul if it happens during the live ball period. We still have an occasional problem child round here.
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Its too bad they would let us add some comments to the end of the survey.
There's a reason for that. They want all suggestions vetted by state associations (and state associations want that, too).
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There's a reason for that. They want all suggestions vetted by state associations (and state associations want that, too).
Well, too bad too that the State (to my knowledge) does not solicit rule amendment suggestions to vet.
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Well, too bad too that the State (to my knowledge) does not solicit rule amendment suggestions to vet.
Sure they do. Just not from officials. ;)
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Sure they do. Just not from officials. ;)
Ah....
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They don't solicit changes from coaches either. They will read something if we send it, but they don't come asking our opinion either.
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So what if we, as a group BOTH officials & coaches from many States, draft a pretty letter and remit a list of requested rules changes? - that would seem to be rather powerful than individuals.
Of course, to whom would this be remitted?
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So what if we, as a group BOTH officials & coaches from many States, draft a pretty letter and remit a list of requested rules changes? - that would seem to be rather powerful than individuals.
Of course, to whom would this be remitted?
To each of our state offices. Let them know to which states it is being submitted. The rules committee members know each other and talk. If the head of the Georgia HSA gets the same letter as the Florida HSA, and each knows the other got it, it might spark some discussion between them.
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Grass roots! Love it! Might even work! :)
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Nothing too earth shaking in this year's survey. I think NFHS has a pretty good rules code at this time and I don't think they need to reinvent the wheel every year.
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Nothing too earth shaking in this year's survey. I think NFHS has a pretty good rules code at this time and I don't think they need to reinvent the wheel every year.
Word had it removing LOD for OPI came within 1 vote of passing last year, yet nary a word about it on this year's survey.
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In as far as a notion to have an en masse rules amendment request remitted at once from multiple officials & coaches from multiple states: to not overwhelm those rules folks, what would be +/-3 to change?
For me, based on things round these parts:
First:
Change Rule 3-4 to more closely resemble NCAA/NFL for OOB clock stoppages. - in other words, for OOB plays, once the ball is set, run the clock.
Rationale: As HS coaches, in attempt to emulate and/or evolve the HS game to NCAA/NFL games, are employing more and more passing offenses. Unfortunately, coaches are not always realistic in succeeding at this new plan of attack. Primarily, this is due to the lack of having the developed athletes to execute such attack. As one can guess, this results in many incomplete passes which stops the game clock until the following snap.
(not a knock on coaches but we've all seen those who think Oregon is recruiting the next offensive coord)
Furthermore, as HS players emulate NCAA/NFL players, HS players are simply running out of bounds as they near the sideline. While NCAA/NFL re-starts the clock (for the most part) on OOB plays, HS has no such consideration.
This all adds up to HS games, of 48min length, taking the same length of time (3 hours or more) that of NCAA/NFL which are 60min length AND have commercial breaks to boot.
Second:
(personally, I like the FL mercy rule – except for the fact it’s not mandatory prior to the 4th q. Plus some states don’t even have a mercy rule )
A uniform Mercy Rule that is not at the option of a coach for whether or not to invoke, AND once “mercy” status is met it will continue for the remainder of the contest – regardless whether the point differential changes.
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Amen, TS
:bOW
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Absolutely not! With only 48 minutes of game time, there is no need to rewind the clock on an OOB play. As it is now, even running a modified spread offense and thowing 15-20 times per game, we did not have a game go more than 2:30 all year, and remember, we have 23 minute halftimes. Most of our games were 2:15 or less.
You will never get coaches to agree to this one.
I'm fine with your universal mercy rule, but I like ours even better - it starts at 30 points instead of 35, is mandatory in the 4th quarter (I'm fine with making it mandatory in the whole second half), and once implemented, never goes back. The thing I don't like about ours is that it only starts at the beginning of a quarter. If the 30 point differential doesn't come until after the start of the 4th quarter, you don't get a running clock.
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Absolutely not! With only 48 minutes of game time, there is no need to rewind the clock on an OOB play. As it is now, even running a modified spread offense and thowing 15-20 times per game, we did not have a game go more than 2:30 all year, and remember, we have 23 minute halftimes. Most of our games were 2:15 or less.
You will never get coaches to agree to this one.
Certainly not to be combative. - Heck Atl has as much if not more rules knowledge than many here.
(plus there's better, more advanced HS football in FL anyway, right?) ;) pun
While I see a game here/there of 2:30, it's 1 or 2 a year - havent seen 2:15 in several yrs. Again, round these parts, we're looking @3:00 games. - and it's more like 20+ passes a game per team with about 30% completion success (round these parts).
Heck, how bout we (not just Atl) look @box scores of our State's Finals games. If the elapsed time of game is noted. For FL, we have 4 this week & 4 next wk.
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OK, so I have some free time @work today. ;)
Went back to 2001 - present. Looked @each state final game for every class. Took out each game where there was an OT or a mercy rule.
In 2001 avg game was 2:30
By 2006 avg game was 2:40
In 2010 & 2011 avg game was 2:45
Again these are well-played/coached Finals games. Not the regular season weekly grind.
And - it's opinions drawn from games round these parts.
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OK, so time has increased in your relatively small sample of games. But none of those come close to the 3:00 you said you are seeing regularly.
Also, how long are your halftimes? Ours are 20 minutes, plus the three minute mandatory warm up period. I would have no problem dropping half time to 15 minutes, or eliminating the 3 minute mandatory warm up period, which is a complete waste of time. It does NOTHING to prevent injuries. If 3 minutes is mandatory at halftime, why is a pregame warmup mandatory?
And you aren't even required to warmup during that 3 minute period, you are just required to be there for it!
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OK, so time has increased in your relatively small sample of games. But none of those come close to the 3:00 you said you are seeing regularly.
Also, how long are your halftimes? Ours are 20 minutes, plus the three minute mandatory warm up period. I would have no problem dropping half time to 15 minutes, or eliminating the 3 minute mandatory warm up period, which is a complete waste of time. It does NOTHING to prevent injuries. If 3 minutes is mandatory at halftime, why is a pregame warmup mandatory?
And you aren't even required to warmup during that 3 minute period, you are just required to be there for it!
I can't remember the last time I saw a high school game anywhere near 2 hours. My last one was 2:52.
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OK, so time has increased in your relatively small sample of games. But none of those come close to the 3:00 you said you are seeing regularly.
Also, how long are your halftimes? Ours are 20 minutes, plus the three minute mandatory warm up period. I would have no problem dropping half time to 15 minutes, or eliminating the 3 minute mandatory warm up period, which is a complete waste of time. It does NOTHING to prevent injuries. If 3 minutes is mandatory at halftime, why is a pregame warmup mandatory?
And you aren't even required to warmup during that 3 minute period, you are just required to be there for it!
Atl: for 3hr games - it's just what I'm seeing round here. Maybe my 'games too long' issue is me being jaded with my own games I'm working being long games every week...
FL halftimes are 17 + 3 warm up.
I would support 15:00 halftime.
Hey - dont forget our FL H2O breaks too for every quarter all season long.
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All this talk of 15-minute halftimes is going to get us in trouble with the BAND PEOPLE!
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All this talk of 15-minute halftimes is going to get us in trouble with the BAND PEOPLE!
that's an item round here that really wont affect things. I think I had 2 games this yr where both bands performed @halftime. I suppose due to travel expenses, schools are not having their band travel.
Plus, I've seen ECO and/or R starting the halftime clock before the field is cleared too. - which buys extra min or 2.
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All this talk of 15-minute halftimes is going to get us in trouble with the BAND PEOPLE!
In my area, if some of the band people had their way there would be 22-25 minute halftime breaks. I'm serious when I say that! There's a mentality there that they are the show, rather than the show within the show.
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In my area, if some of the band people had their way there would be 22-25 minute halftime breaks. I'm serious when I say that! There's a mentality there that they are the show, rather than the show within the show.
Why should a silly game get 120 minutes and the band only 20? :D
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Plus, I've seen ECO and/or R starting the halftime clock before the field is cleared too. - which buys extra min or 2.
We have the opposite, which is why from the last play of the first half until kickoff, it's closer to 25 minutes.
And we don't have a marching band, so in our games, there are NEVER two bands performing! But the cheerleaders wil sometimes do a halftime routine. Thankfully, these rarely last more than 4 minutes.
Normally, bu the time the halftime clock hits 10:00, I have a clear field to warm up kickers.
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Ok, how about this, return to the old timing rules- clock starts on the RFP on a change of possession not involving a kick. Minor, sure, but would knock some time down.
I don't have specific data but I know most of my games ended somewhere around 9:50 - 10:00pm (7:30 standard kickoff time here) this year with a couple close to 10:30 with no OT. When I started varsity 14 years ago, most games were over by 9:30, 9:40 latest.
Very few schools take the full 20 minute halftime except at homecoming. Usual here is 15 + 3 or 17 +3.
The killer is JV offenses passing for four quarters with most conference games wanting to play 12:00 quarters too.
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We had a 1:57 game in round 2 of the playoffs. The first quarter took 15 minutes1.
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We had a 1:57 game in round 2 of the playoffs. The first quarter took 15 minutes1.
Magic!
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In my area, if some of the band people had their way there would be 22-25 minute halftime breaks. I'm serious when I say that! There's a mentality there that they are the show, rather than the show within the show.
Well, the real high-level band competitions allow for shows between 7 - 11min. (thus 11x2 = 22 + 3min transition from A-band to B-band)
OK, OK, here's how I know: my wife's nephew is in the Ia State band. - so yours truely asked about whether there are any show length criteria... pi1eOn
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I tallied up the times for my games this year. I had 16 total varsity games. The quickest was 1:51 and the longest was 2:45. The average was 2:20.
We don't have a codified mercy rule but we do use some version running clock in most lopsided games. I had a lot of those this year.
We have lots of pass oriented attacks. I don't see them as slowing down the game that much. In general, teams that can't pass don't pass. When they try anyway it's usually because the other team is way ahead. Around here, the other team is usually trying to run the clock at that point so it sort of evens out.
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One other factor, at least in this area, that leads to longer games- talent imbalance.
My longest game this season was a 70-33 scorefest in which the BJ called the visiting, winning, team three times for encroachment on kickoffs.
HC looks at me after the third one and says "Does he know how long its gonna take for us to get home tonight?"
Me- "Coach, try to stop scoring and then we won't have to keep kicking off nAnA"
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One other factor, at least in this area, that leads to longer games- talent imbalance.
My longest game this season was a 70-33 scorefest in which the BJ called the visiting, winning, team three times for encroachment on kickoffs.
HC looks at me after the third one and says "Does he know how long its gonna take for us to get home tonight?"
Me- "Coach, try to stop scoring and then we won't have to keep kicking off nAnA"
stop scoring? - how bout play a little defense too? ;)
I would agree that with schools opening just about every yr round here that talent depth is reduced.
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how bout play a little defense too?
That would have really required hollering over to the other sideline which would be most frowned upon. :o
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That would have really required hollering over to the other sideline which would be most frowned upon. :o
with team X @70 pt & team Y @33 pt, seems appropriate for either sideline. :thumbup
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After all FL state champ complete, avg game elapsed time: 2:49.
That's 2:49 with no TV timeouts, commercials, etc.
So we have a 48 min game that is 25% less game clock than a 60-min game.
Figure it should take about 25% less, real time to contest the game, right?
Yet it's taking only 16% less (2:49 v. 3:15 for NFL) time?
Seems, with this certanly very small random sampling, that perhaps a consideration for NFHS to look at NCAA timing when it relates to plays going OOB & start the clock on the ready.
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Our 12 games this year, the average game time is 2:21. We averaged 20 passes a game, our opponents, 18. And our halftimes are 23 minutes, which is part of that game time. We had only one game all year that was more than your average of 2:48.
This isn't a problem in most places. I can tell you coaches would be VEHEMENTLY opposed to changing the timimg rules. Given their representation on most rules committees, I don't see it happening. The compromise might be to go to NCAA timing rules with 15 minute quarters, not 12.
Cut halftime to 15 minutes. Eliminate the completely useless mandatory three minute warmup at halftime.
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Our 12 games this year, the average game time is 2:21. We averaged 20 passes a game, our opponents, 18. And our halftimes are 23 minutes, which is part of that game time. We had only one game all year that was more than your average of 2:48.
This isn't a problem in most places. I can tell you coaches would be VEHEMENTLY opposed to changing the timimg rules. Given their representation on most rules committees, I don't see it happening. The compromise might be to go to NCAA timing rules with 15 minute quarters, not 12.
Cut halftime to 15 minutes. Eliminate the completely useless mandatory three minute warmup at halftime.
But we play better football here. pun
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But we play better football here. pun
Slower, not better! ;D
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Slower, not better! ;D
...or maybe yall complete more passes. :thumbup
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...or maybe yall complete more passes. :thumbup
For us, that may have been true in some years. Unfortunately, this year was not one of them.
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...or maybe yall complete more passes. :thumbup
There's a lot of truth to the number of incomplete passes that perpetuate the problem.