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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: Ralph Damren on January 17, 2018, 10:29:18 AM

Title: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Ralph Damren on January 17, 2018, 10:29:18 AM
I believe I can share these with you guys......

PART I (last year's changes)

All received favorable responses.

The least favorable were :
                                               COACH              OFFICIAL
BLINESIDE BLOCK                        71%                   92%
POP-UP KICK                                67%                   84%

PART II (in your area)

"It's happening here..." were :
             
READING NUMBERS                       54%                    46%
LOW BLOCKS NOT CALLED             54%                    42% (by B)
                                                    52%                   38% (by A)
NON-GAME PERSONNEL ON SL      49%                     75%
MOUTH PIECES W/PICTURES          53%                    44% 
BAND PLAYING                             48%                     55%

PART III (would you like)

40-PLAY CLOCK                             58%                    61%
TACKLE BOX ON IG                        71%                    54%
SPIKE FROM SHOTGUN                   65%                    49%
AUTO 1ST DOWN ON DPI                64%                    62%
AUTO 1ST DOWN ON ALL PF            69%                    64%

PART IV (feedback)

REVIEW STATE OF GAME                64%                    71%
EDUCATE CURENT RULES               84%                    81%


FYI....

 5130 coaches voted
 9140 officials voted
     38 state assoc. voted

 tiphat: TO :

STATES WITH MOST OFFICIALS VOTING...

 OHIO                           1262
 PENNSYLVANIA              723
 ILLINOIS                       709
 MICHIGAN                     622   



Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: FLAHL on January 17, 2018, 01:50:26 PM
Thanks Ralph.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: bama_stripes on January 18, 2018, 06:09:40 AM
Thanks for the feedback, Ralph.

I'm floored that less than 50% of officials were in favor of the shotgun spike proposal.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: scrounge on January 18, 2018, 07:52:00 AM
It struck me that some of the biggest states weren't in the top 4 of officials' voting, such as CA or FL. Are we just that much more opinionated in the midwest? :)
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Ralph Damren on January 18, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
It struck me that some of the biggest states weren't in the top 4 of officials' voting, such as CA or FL. Are we just that much more opinionated in the midwest? :)
California    274 coaches          98 officials
Florida           0 coaches          16  officials

Apparently there are more things to do in those states than to stay warm and fill out questionnaires  :) !   
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: FLAHL on January 18, 2018, 11:27:10 AM
California    274 coaches          98 officials
Florida           0 coaches          16  officials

Apparently there are more things to do in those states than to stay warm and fill out questionnaires  :) !   

I only knew about this survey because I saw Bossman's original post on this site.  I've always wondered how many other FL officials were on this site.  Now I know - TampaSteve, me, and 14 others.  :)
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Ralph Damren on January 18, 2018, 11:32:56 AM
I only knew about this survey because I saw Bossman's original post on this site.  I've always wondered how many other FL officials were on this site.  Now I know - TampaSteve, me, and 14 others.  :)
I learned the same way. there will be overflowing suggestions in the NFHS suggestion box about making it more user friendly.

Off to Indy and then back to sunny Florida. Back in front of ole' Dell on Ground Hog Day.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: TampaSteve on January 18, 2018, 11:44:01 AM
I only knew about this survey because I saw Bossman's original post on this site.  I've always wondered how many other FL officials were on this site.  Now I know - TampaSteve, me, and 14 others.  :)
I'm assuming but wouldn't coaches be notified by email from NFHS of the availability of the Questionnaire?
I mean 0 FL coaches?
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Magician on January 18, 2018, 01:25:35 PM
I'm assuming but wouldn't coaches be notified by email from NFHS of the availability of the Questionnaire?
I mean 0 FL coaches?
Depends on who sent out the survey link. I don't remember if I got mine from NFHS or IHSAA. All IHSAA officials are NFHS members so maybe there are no NFHS members in Florida?
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: riffraft on January 18, 2018, 01:44:11 PM
I'm assuming but wouldn't coaches be notified by email from NFHS of the availability of the Questionnaire?
I mean 0 FL coaches?

I found about about the questionaire on here, but the AIA (Arizona) sent out a link to everyone a week or so later.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: prab on January 18, 2018, 03:28:32 PM
I too found out about it from Bossman's OP.  Nothing from state (Wisconsin) association.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: TampaSteve on January 18, 2018, 04:06:51 PM
I'm a tad surprided that it seems coaches (or ADs) across the country are not apparently emailed soliciting them to complete the questionnaire.

RALPH:
maybe information to pass along.  It seems participation for the questionnaire would be better if coaches & officials were aware of the questionnaire.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: GA Umpire on January 18, 2018, 05:17:54 PM
[RALPH:
maybe information to pass along.  It seems participation for the questionnaire would be better if coaches & officials were aware of the questionnaire.
[/quote]

I also received the link from this Board.
I then tried to find the link on the NFHS site, but was unsuccessful.  It seems they (NFHS) should send a link in an email to all NFIOA and NFICA members.   

Ralph,
Can you make this suggestion???
 
Also, how did GA rank in participation????
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: bossman72 on January 18, 2018, 08:38:53 PM
PIAA has been sending the questionnaire out the past couple years to everyone in the state.  Prior to that, they never sent it.

So, the state associations just aren't sending the questionnaire that have low participation.  Maybe make that a POE among the committee members this year?
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: SouthGARef on January 22, 2018, 08:35:14 AM
A colleague told me he heard the 40 second play clock was voted down in committee.  ^no
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Rich on January 23, 2018, 10:50:31 AM
A colleague told me he heard the 40 second play clock was voted down in committee.  ^no

My guess is any meaningful will get voted down.

No offense to our valuable and welcome contributor Ralph, here, but this just shows why there needs to be more turnover on the committee, perhaps a term limit.  I'm convinced, without even being in the room, that the inertia of a significant number of people on the committee is just too great for there to be any meaningful change.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: SouthGARef on January 23, 2018, 10:53:12 AM
Also voted down:

(1) Any proposal to speed the game up via clock rules (restarting clock on OOB outside final X minutes of half, etc)

(2) Rewording illegal formation to allow for fewer than seven on the line as long as there are no more than four in backfield

*sigh*
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: bossman72 on January 23, 2018, 01:00:04 PM
(2) Rewording illegal formation to allow for fewer than seven on the line as long as there are no more than four in backfield

(https://i.imgflip.com/237um1.jpg)
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: SouthGARef on January 23, 2018, 01:50:47 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/237um1.jpg)

 ^good
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: FLAHL on January 23, 2018, 01:55:36 PM
 :bOW

Nice work Bossman.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 05, 2018, 11:05:15 AM
[RALPH:
maybe information to pass along.  It seems participation for the questionnaire would be better if coaches & officials were aware of the questionnaire.


I also received the link from this Board.
I then tried to find the link on the NFHS site, but was unsuccessful.  It seems they (NFHS) should send a link in an email to all NFIOA and NFICA members.   

Ralph,
Can you make this suggestion??? DID
 
Also, how did GA rank in participation????
  COACHES 190   OFFICIALS  291 IN PEACHTREE STATE
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Rulesman on February 05, 2018, 11:50:09 AM
Itís becoming obvious the Fed doesnít care what we think. For a state the size of GA that a terrible participation rate.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: TampaSteve on February 05, 2018, 01:23:08 PM
Itís becoming obvious the Fed doesnít care what we think. For a state the size of GA that a terrible participation rate.
...and I think FL was worse...
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: SouthGARef on February 05, 2018, 02:40:12 PM
For a state the size of GA that a terrible participation rate.

Hard to take a questionnaire you don't know about.

For that matter, I think the committee doesn't really care about the results anyway.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: prab on February 05, 2018, 05:49:51 PM
Hard to take a questionnaire you don't know about.

For that matter, I think the committee doesn't really care about the results anyway.

+1  If we ever meet, the first round is on me!
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 07, 2018, 10:24:12 AM
My guess is any meaningful will get voted down.

No offense to our valuable and welcome contributor Ralph, here, but this just shows why there needs to be more turnover on the committee, perhaps a term limit.  I'm convinced, without even being in the room, that the inertia of a significant number of people on the committee is just too great for there to be any meaningful change.
I believe I can share this with you guys...
 2018 Football Rules Committee -years served :

1-5 years     = 21
6-10 years   = 17
11-15 years =   6
16-20 years =   3
21-25 years =   1
26-30 years =   2
31-35 years =   0
36-40 years =   1 

With 38 of the 51 voters (48 states+ DC, NAFO & NACO) having 10 years of service or less, there is plenty of "new blood" aboard. A super-majority of 67% is needed to pass a new rule that has been screened through a sub-committee and often a proposal will receive a majority but not the higher threshold needed.

I vote with the best interests of my state in mind along with an officiating slant...will it be easy to officiate ,teach ,and learn versus improve the safety of and the fairness of the game.

Example : PSK = a lot to learn, but a big improvement to the fairness.

"IF TWO MEN AGREE ON EVERYTHING, ONLY ONE IS NEEDED"
   
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: mb98football on February 07, 2018, 01:01:44 PM
Any idea when the 2018 Rule changes will be published?
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: bossman72 on February 07, 2018, 02:16:07 PM
Any idea when the 2018 Rule changes will be published?

Traditionally it's been around Valentines Day.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: TampaSteve on February 07, 2018, 03:16:46 PM
RALPH:
always all due respect to the positive things you bring to the table.
Due to my ignorance, I have a question:
Is the intent of your position for you to vote:
A. with your state's intestrests (i.e. you're their Congressman)? - or
B. would/should you vote for the game (country) as a whole - with the countries' interests put first?

If the case is A, is this to say ME has less representatives there than, say FL or GA?

Just curopis.
THANKS
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 08, 2018, 08:37:20 AM
I vote with what I feel will be in the best interest of football in my state and weigh the ease of teaching the new rule to my fellow officials versus the improvement of safety or fairness to our game.


EXAMPLE.......

PROPOSED RULE : 40 SEC. CLOCK

FOOTBALL IN MAINE :
   NO play clocks;
   NO need expressed by coaches clinic;
   NO interest by officials;
   NO support by MPA Football Committee;
   NO ball boys unless mud/rain/snow.

EASY TO TEACH/LEARN :

   Many schools still use 4-man in varsity = R carries play clock.
   ALL sub-varsity games use 3-man with R and 2 wings = R carries play clock but AND spots ball with no U.
   RFP signal & whistle gone (been there since 1953) will become tough and confusing to officials/players and coaches. An RFP tweet = IW followed by the confusing sort-out.
   To quote a learned coach : "Seems like a lot of work for you guys for a problem that none of us can see."

   I agreed, and voted NO. I wasn't the only NO vote.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: FLAHL on February 08, 2018, 12:52:18 PM

   RFP signal & whistle gone (been there since 1953) will become tough and confusing to officials/players and coaches. An RFP tweet = IW followed by the confusing sort-out.


Yikes.  I'm sure I would have been buying beers as a result of that IW for at least half a season!
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: AlUpstateNY on February 08, 2018, 10:15:39 PM
EXAMPLE.......

PROPOSED RULE : 40 SEC. CLOCK

   Many schools still use 4-man in varsity = R carries play clock.
   ALL sub-varsity games use 3-man with R and 2 wings = R carries play clock but AND spots ball with no U.
   RFP signal & whistle gone (been there since 1953) will become tough and confusing to officials/players and coaches. An RFP tweet = IW followed by the confusing sort-out.
   To quote a learned coach : "Seems like a lot of work for you guys for a problem that none of us can see."

   I agreed, and voted NO. I wasn't the only NO vote.

Thanks for your "common sense" and, for "What actually exists, rather than what might be nice" vote for Interscholastic level football that exists in far more places than Maine. 

I'm not sure if Yogi Berra was the first to caution, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it", but I'd wager he believed it.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: VALJ on February 13, 2018, 11:05:51 AM
Also voted down:

(2) Rewording illegal formation to allow for fewer than seven on the line as long as there are no more than four in backfield

*sigh*

 hEaDbAnG
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: bama_stripes on February 14, 2018, 06:42:40 AM
Ralph, how close were the votes on the "spike from shotgun" and "four in the backfield" proposals?
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Ralph Damren on February 14, 2018, 07:36:14 AM
Ralph, how close were the votes on the "spike from shotgun" and "four in the backfield" proposals?
Both made it through sub-committee for a final floor vote. Both were around 50% but not at the 67% required.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Ralph Damren on March 26, 2018, 10:38:01 AM
Itís becoming obvious the Fed doesnít care what we think. For a state the size of GA that a terrible participation rate.

This was Rulesman's last post. We will all miss his humor, candor and advice. May Bob Dunham Rest In Peace.

                                     :patrioticon:
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: Ralph Damren on March 27, 2018, 09:16:03 AM
As a tribute to Bob, let's all go to a Rulesman post and enter a "cheer" under FAN REACTION. He deserved any accolade that we could supply.
Title: Re: Questionnaire results.....
Post by: BIG UMP on March 27, 2018, 09:55:19 AM
Robert John 'Bob' Dunham passed away on March 24, 2018 at his home after long battle with cancer. He was a long-time resident of Memphis and moved to Gulf Breeze, FL in 2016 after retiring from First Tennessee Bank. He was born on December 23, 1948 in Passaic, NJ, to Robert & Helen Dunham. Mr. Dunham was an Eagle Scout and graduated from Pope Pius XII High School and Memphis State University.

As a long time basketball and football official with the Arkansas Officials Association, he received the Jerry Hall Award for exceptional service and dedication to the AOA and was inducted into the AOA Hall of Fame in 2015. In addition to conducting numerus camps for the state of Arkansas Mr. Dunham was a co-founder of the East Arkansas Basketball Referee Camp. He served on the National Federation of High School Sports Communication Committee. Mr. Dunham also officiated football at the collegiate level in the AIC, later the Gulf South Conference where he remained active as an evaluator.

Mr. Dunham was preceded in death by his son, David Walker Dunham and his father, Robert Dunham. He leaves his wife of 47 1/2 years, Suzanne Dunham, son John Dunham (Lulie), grandchildren, Maggie and Walker Dunham all of Lawrenceville, Ga., mother Helen Dunham of Newnan, GA, brothers, Bill Dunham (Bonnie) of Piney Flats, TN, Tim Dunham (Debbie) of Whitestone, NY, and Tom Dunham (Beverly) of Newnan, GA. Visitation will be held on Tuesday, March 27th from 5-8pm at Memorial Park Funeral Home, 5668 Poplar Avenue in Memphis. Funeral Mass will be held on Wednesday, March 28th at 12pm at St. Ann Catholic Church, 6529 Stage Road in Bartlett. In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to St Jude Children's Research Hospital.