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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: NCVAReferee on September 12, 2019, 08:57:57 PM

Title: Punt Play
Post by: NCVAReferee on September 12, 2019, 08:57:57 PM
K 4/3 @ 50.  K punt goes deep into R territory where K attempts to keep the ball from going into the end zone.  As the punt bounces, A22 blocks B44 into the ball which bounces away and hits B48 in the leg.  K recovers on the R-1.  Ruling and rule reference?
Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: GA Umpire on September 12, 2019, 09:47:38 PM
K 4/3 @ 50.  K punt goes deep into R territory where K attempts to keep the ball from going into the end zone.  As the punt bounces, A22 blocks B44 into the ball which bounces away and hits B48 in the leg.  K recovers on the R-1.  Ruling and rule reference?

I'll try
1st and 10 for R from the 1.
6-2-5.  The touching by K is ignored because K44 was blocked into the ball and this action caused the ball to touch K48.
Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: NCVAReferee on September 13, 2019, 06:06:02 AM
I thought the rule ignored touching if it was caused by K blocking R into the ball, muffing or batting the ball into R?
Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: PABJNR on September 13, 2019, 08:13:09 AM
I think he meant R, he stated the ball belongs to R, because touching is ignored.


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Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: NCVAReferee on September 13, 2019, 08:22:02 AM
What I'm getting at is the touching by K44 is ignored because R blocked him into the ball.  This meets the exception written in 6-2-4.  Can anyone provide a rule reference or case play for ignoring the touching by K48?
Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: ncwingman on September 13, 2019, 08:36:15 AM
K 4/3 @ 50.  K punt goes deep into R territory where K attempts to keep the ball from going into the end zone.  As the punt bounces, A22 blocks B44 into the ball which bounces away and hits B48 in the leg.  K recovers on the R-1.  Ruling and rule reference?

Going back and quoting the original to keep the Ks and Rs straight...

K22 blocks R44 into the ball. This touching is ignored because R44 was blocked into the ball.

The ball then touches R48 who was not involved in blocking with an K player. This touching is NOT ignored. R has now touched a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone and K may recover (but not advance) the ball.

R touching the kick is only ignored if K pushes or blocks R into the ball or if K legally bats or muffs the ball into R. (6-2-4) K blocking R into the ball is not a bat or muff by K.

It will be Ks ball, 1st and goal at the R-1.
Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: NCVAReferee on September 13, 2019, 09:12:11 AM
NCWingman this is how I ruled it, but was curious if I was missing an interpretation somewhere.
Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: ncwingman on September 13, 2019, 10:21:29 AM
It comes down to the general accidental touching of a kick by R, which "counts".

If R48 isn't paying attention to where the ball is and the falling punt glances off his shoulder, K can recover.

If R48 is looking to block a K player, but hasn't found one and stumbles backwards into the ball because he doesn't see it behind him, K can recover.

Intent to touch the ball is not required, R is responsible for knowing where the ball is unless actively engaged in a block.



Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: GA Umpire on September 13, 2019, 12:22:19 PM
K 4/3 @ 50.  K punt goes deep into R territory where K attempts to keep the ball from going into the end zone.  As the punt bounces, A22 blocks B44 into the ball which bounces away and hits B48 in the leg.  K recovers on the R-1.  Ruling and rule reference?
Guys:
Doesn't the OP state that K44 was blocked into the ball and then the ball touched K48 and then was downed by K on the R1?
Am I missing something?

Then if the touching by B48 is not ignored, it will be R's ball 1st and 10 at the spot of "first touching".
Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: CalhounLJ on September 13, 2019, 01:49:19 PM
Guys:
Doesn't the OP state that K44 was blocked into the ball and then the ball touched K48 and then was downed by K on the R1?
Am I missing something?

Then if the touching by B48 is not ignored, it will be R's ball 1st and 10 at the spot of "first touching".
Itís a mixed up mess because he changed from K/R to A/B and the back again.  If A means the Team with the ball at the start of the down, then it correlates to K. So we have K blocking R into the ball. I think.


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Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: NCVAReferee on September 13, 2019, 02:52:19 PM
Let me fix this "mixed up mess".

K 4/3 @ 50.  K punt goes deep into R territory where K attempts to keep the ball from going into the end zone.  As the punt bounces, K22 blocks R44 into the ball which bounces away and hits R48 in the leg.  K recovers on the R-1.  Ruling and rule reference?
Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: CalhounLJ on September 13, 2019, 02:59:11 PM
Let me fix this "mixed up mess".

K 4/3 @ 50.  K punt goes deep into R territory where K attempts to keep the ball from going into the end zone.  As the punt bounces, K22 blocks R44 into the ball which bounces away and hits R48 in the leg.  K recovers on the R-1.  Ruling and rule reference?
The touching by R44 is ignored because K blocked him into it. The touching by R48 is NOT ignored because none of the ignoring requirements were met. K ball. 6-4-4


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Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: Derek Teigen on September 13, 2019, 03:58:43 PM
If I had been the covering official on this I don't know what I would have done I'm trying to see the play in my mind.    What if the 2 R players in question were right next to each other and you could make the case that if K had not blocked R1 into the ball then it never would have hit R2!   I think the case could be made that the pushing of R1 into touching the ball also caused R2 to touch the ball so all touching is ignored.  On the other hand I'm wondering what all those R players were doing so close to that bouncing ball and maybe K should just be awarded the ball out of principal.






Title: Re: Punt Play
Post by: CalhounLJ on September 13, 2019, 04:10:20 PM
Canít make that leap. The rule explicitly states touching is ignored if K blocks R into the ball. The second R has the responsibility to know whatís up and the ability to avoid contact.


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