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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by peterparsons on June 24, 2019, 10:04:05 AM »
The concept of a scrimmmage kick which has crossed the neutral zone subsequently being behind the neutral zone exists in multiple places in the book. It's in 8-4-2-b-3, AR 6-3-1-I, AR 6-3-13-III and AR 10-2-4-II. As such, I would consider it a reasonable conclusion that the choice of words is deliberate.

I'm also struggling to find a reason why, on this play, we would not want to have the option of giving B the ball at the 17? It's a better spot. It's only two yards on this play, but say A's bat had caused the ball to go all the way to midfield before going out of bounds. That is a significant difference in outcome if our only option is to tack on 10 from the out of bounds spot.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by Legacy Zebra on June 24, 2019, 09:51:33 AM »
Also, look at why batting has a loss of down and why the exception is there. The loss of down is to prevent of a team from illegally advancing the ball. That’s why batting, kicking, illegal forward passes, etc have a loss of down. Once a scrimmage kick has crossed the neutral zone, Team A can’t advance the ball anyway, so there’s no reason to have a loss of down. Thus the exception. In this play, Team A cant advance the ball because it’s crossed the nz, so there’s no loss of down.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by Legacy Zebra on June 24, 2019, 09:38:24 AM »
Why have “neutral zone” and “line of scrimmage” become almost interchangeable terms? Why do we say “THE line of scrimmage” when there are two of them? Why does the new OT rule call it a two point play instead of a try down? On that note, why has “overtime” become part of our vocabulary instead of extra periods?

The answer to all is because through different editors, the language within the rule has evolved little by little either intentionally or not.

To the point of this play, I believe a play similar to this was actually on a CFO test at some point recently. I don’t have my test bank right now, but somebody may be able to find it.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by peterparsons on June 24, 2019, 08:57:05 AM »
So why doesn't the Exception say "No loss of down once a scrimmage kick has crossed the neutral zone" if that is the intention?
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by Legacy Zebra on June 24, 2019, 06:58:12 AM »
Once a kick has crossed the neutral zone, all action is considered beyond because there is no longer a neutral zone for the ball to then go behind.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by peterparsons on June 24, 2019, 06:09:22 AM »
The wording on the loss of down exception states "(Exception: No loss of down if the foul occurs when a legal scrimmage kick is beyond the neutral zone)." The key words here are "is beyond" since, in this scenario, the scrimmage kick is behind, not beyond, the neutral zone at the moment of the bat.

As such, the loss of down still applies in this situation and B are better off enforcing from the spot of the bat since that will give them the ball at Team A's 17 yard line.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by Legacy Zebra on June 23, 2019, 11:20:42 PM »
Then the ball was out of bounds by touching him before he gained possession, so no inadvertent whistle provisions. Just a punt out of bounds. Team B will take the penalty enforced from the dead ball spot since we have a foul by A during a scrimmage kick play and the kick crossed the LOS. B, 1st and 10, from A-19.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by bctgp on June 23, 2019, 11:06:06 PM »
The HL was standing on the sideline when he picked the ball up - therefore out of bounds. Sorry, I should have been more overt about that point.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by Legacy Zebra on June 23, 2019, 10:19:37 PM »
Was the H out of bounds? That would affect the ruling.

H out of bounds: By touching the ball, the H has made the ball dead out of bounds. B can either enforce the ILB at the spot of the foul (batting is not part of the previous spot exception from 3&1) or enforce it from the dead ball spot and get the ball. There is no loss of down for this batting because the ball crossed the neutral zone when it hit the ground at the A-31. Team B will elect to enforce the batting from the A-29 and have 1st and 10 from the A-19. GC Snap PC 25.

H inbounds: The ball is dead when the H gains possession and inadvertent whistle provisions apply. Because this was still a kick, the only option is to replay the down. However any fouls or violations can still be applied. That means Team B could accept the penalty for batting from the spot of the foul and make it 4th and 13 from the A-17. But they won't because we didn't just have a foul, we also had a violation. As mentioned above, when the ball bounced at the A-31, it crossed the neutral zone by rule. That makes A35's bat illegal touching as well. So Team B will decline the penalty for the batting and take the ITK violation at the A-27 and have 1st and 10 from there. GC Snap PC 25.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Keep our minds working...
« Last post by bctgp on June 23, 2019, 09:50:30 PM »
Here is a good one (I have the video but is it greater than 700kb so I cannot post).

4th & 1 at the A-29 and Team A's punt lands at the A-31 and rebounds untouched by anyone to near the A-27 where A35 bats the ball forward toward to the A-29 where the HL is standing on the sideline and reaches down and picks up the ball before it goes out of bounds.

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